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2020 Rule 5 Draft (Pirates select Jose Soriano, Angels select Jose Rivera)


Stradling

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4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

having a hard time wrapping my head around why the Angels wouldn't just add Soriano to the 40 man and then stash him on the IL.  

Same. Room on the 40 man, plenty of dead weight there too, if there wasn't room, and they had to know he'd get picked. He's three perfect rule 5 candidate.

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10 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

We had season seats from 76-96. Disney wanted to move us to the RF Pavillion and my dad told them to pound sand. We went to split his job season seats and had them for another 5 years. Of course shut them down at the start of 2002.

Thank you

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35 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Yan, is far from high octane. He was throwing 87-89mph last season during SPT. He is a left handed slinger through his mechanics and that doesn't usually add velo but movement and arm slot for deception. If I can find the videos, I will upload them. He reminds me more of Gary Lucas/Scott Bailes/Mike Myers/Andy Hassler/Sid Fernandez than Adonis Chapman. He comes 3/4 quarters to a fraction above sidearm arm slot.

recent reports have yan at 92-95 and touching 98.  

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2 hours ago, Warfarin said:

What Pittsburgh can do is stash him on the 60-day IL for half the season.  I believe Soriano has to spend 90 days on the active roster, but for a team as absolutely dreadful as the Pirates, it probably won't be hard for them to have him pitch in relief occasionally.  

Correct. 90 days on the active roster.

Also, the Angels have access to his medical records, so could be something there perhaps

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While it seems doubtful that most rule 5 draftees stick with their new teams, relievers are generally the easiest ones that can "stick."

Given our bullpen situation on the whole, I would say Rivera has a pretty good shot of staying.  While he hasn't pitched above A-ball, perhaps he had some growth and development last year that cannot be known, since there were no minor leagues.

Regardless, I think he has at least one good MLB pitch at the moment, and hopefully that's enough for him to get by.

A key part of a functional MLB bullpen is to have several high-leverage lynchpins you can count on, as well as multiple guys you can option back and forth to the minors, depending on how players perform.

Currently, our pen has 3 guys who cannot be optioned for various reasons:  Iglesias, Mayers (no options), Rivera (rule 5).  I do not count Peters, because I don't consider him a key player, and he can likely just be removed from the 40-man roster without much concern.

The rest (Buttrey, Pena, Reyes, Quijada, Keller, Bard) have options remaining.  I do expect at least one more significant reliever added, probably a lefty, and perhaps acquiring a SP (or two) shifts Sandoval and/or Barria to the pen, too.

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5 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

While it seems doubtful that most rule 5 draftees stick with their new teams, relievers are generally the easiest ones that can "stick."

Given our bullpen situation on the whole, I would say Rivera has a pretty good shot of staying.  While he hasn't pitched above A-ball, perhaps he had some growth and development last year that cannot be known, since there were no minor leagues.

Regardless, I think he has at least one good MLB pitch at the moment, and hopefully that's enough for him to get by.

A key part of a functional MLB bullpen is to have several high-leverage lynchpins you can count on, as well as multiple guys you can option back and forth to the minors, depending on how players perform.

Currently, our pen has 3 guys who cannot be optioned for various reasons:  Iglesias, Mayers (no options), Rivera (rule 5).  I do not count Peters, because I don't consider him a key player, and he can likely just be removed from the 40-man roster without much concern.

The rest (Buttrey, Pena, Reyes, Quijada, Keller, Bard) have options remaining.  I do expect at least one more significant reliever added, probably a lefty, and perhaps acquiring a SP (or two) shifts Sandoval and/or Barria to the pen, too.

Or, it could just be throw hard, miss bats, if he can hold runners decently that's a plus!....

Many other clubs are bringing kids up quicker today than stopping them for an entire season at each level. Especially, if they have a couple ++ pitches. Alvarado of the Rays is one of those guys throws 98+ from the left side with a above average slider and nothing is slower than 92mph. And he may not have any clue where it might be going.

It's all about swing and miss stuff.

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17 minutes ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

Hey Doc, They must have retooled his delivery and mechanics? There was no way he could get there by slinging it.

not sure.  All I know is that every report I have read on him has him in the 93 range on his fastball.  I watched him in 2019 on milb and announcers had him touching 96 per the gun.  To me, he still looked like he was slinging from the low 3/4ths across his body.  I probably saw 3-4 outings and it was pretty consistent.  Plus, there is some conflicting reports on his slider but the one I saw was downright nasty.  He was throwing way more strikes than I'd ever seen but he certainly didn't have command.  He was in the zone a fair amount but I don't think he really had an idea of where it was going.  

maybe he went from a 2 seam to a 4 seam to get the extra velo.  One thing that stood out was that the fastball and slider seemed to come from the same spot.  When thrown correctly, the fastball stayed up (in a good way) and hitters swung late and couldn't catch up where as the slider had sharp break down and out of the zone vs. LHers and back foot on RHers.  Also getting some ugly swings and misses.  

If I remember correctly, I caught him toward the end of 2019 and his stuff was pretty damn electric.  

Also keep in mind he's never pitched out of the pen.  I bet you his velo ticks up if that's where they have him in 2021.  

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8 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

not sure.  All I know is that every report I have read on him has him in the 93 range on his fastball.  I watched him in 2019 on milb and announcers had him touching 96 per the gun.  To me, he still looked like he was slinging from the low 3/4ths across his body.  I probably saw 3-4 outings and it was pretty consistent.  Plus, there is some conflicting reports on his slider but the one I saw was downright nasty.  He was throwing way more strikes than I'd ever seen but he certainly didn't have command.  He was in the zone a fair amount but I don't think he really had an idea of where it was going.  

maybe he went from a 2 seam to a 4 seam to get the extra velo.  One thing that stood out was that the fastball and slider seemed to come from the same spot.  When thrown correctly, the fastball stayed up (in a good way) and hitters swung late and couldn't catch up where as the slider had sharp break down and out of the zone vs. LHers and back foot on RHers.  Also getting some ugly swings and misses.  

If I remember correctly, I caught him toward the end of 2019 and his stuff was pretty damn electric.  

Also keep in mind he's never pitched out of the pen.  I bet you his velo ticks up if that's where they have him in 2021.  

He is dropping down and spinning off the side. Doesn't help with velo! Just my experiences...

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18 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

not sure.  All I know is that every report I have read on him has him in the 93 range on his fastball.  I watched him in 2019 on milb and announcers had him touching 96 per the gun.  To me, he still looked like he was slinging from the low 3/4ths across his body.  I probably saw 3-4 outings and it was pretty consistent.  Plus, there is some conflicting reports on his slider but the one I saw was downright nasty.  He was throwing way more strikes than I'd ever seen but he certainly didn't have command.  He was in the zone a fair amount but I don't think he really had an idea of where it was going.  

maybe he went from a 2 seam to a 4 seam to get the extra velo.  One thing that stood out was that the fastball and slider seemed to come from the same spot.  When thrown correctly, the fastball stayed up (in a good way) and hitters swung late and couldn't catch up where as the slider had sharp break down and out of the zone vs. LHers and back foot on RHers.  Also getting some ugly swings and misses.  

If I remember correctly, I caught him toward the end of 2019 and his stuff was pretty damn electric.  

Also keep in mind he's never pitched out of the pen.  I bet you his velo ticks up if that's where they have him in 2021.  

Wider view. Goodyear vs the Reds. I have probably 100+ videos of rookies and their mechanics and swings in the games. I thought I had placed them on here previously. I will go through and see what I can find. Some were pretty good.

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13 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

not sure.  All I know is that every report I have read on him has him in the 93 range on his fastball.  I watched him in 2019 on milb and announcers had him touching 96 per the gun.  To me, he still looked like he was slinging from the low 3/4ths across his body.  I probably saw 3-4 outings and it was pretty consistent.  Plus, there is some conflicting reports on his slider but the one I saw was downright nasty.  He was throwing way more strikes than I'd ever seen but he certainly didn't have command.  He was in the zone a fair amount but I don't think he really had an idea of where it was going.  

maybe he went from a 2 seam to a 4 seam to get the extra velo.  One thing that stood out was that the fastball and slider seemed to come from the same spot.  When thrown correctly, the fastball stayed up (in a good way) and hitters swung late and couldn't catch up where as the slider had sharp break down and out of the zone vs. LHers and back foot on RHers.  Also getting some ugly swings and misses.  

If I remember correctly, I caught him toward the end of 2019 and his stuff was pretty damn electric.  

Also keep in mind he's never pitched out of the pen.  I bet you his velo ticks up if that's where they have him in 2021.  

Vs a lefty

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31 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

not sure.  All I know is that every report I have read on him has him in the 93 range on his fastball.  I watched him in 2019 on milb and announcers had him touching 96 per the gun.  To me, he still looked like he was slinging from the low 3/4ths across his body.  I probably saw 3-4 outings and it was pretty consistent.  Plus, there is some conflicting reports on his slider but the one I saw was downright nasty.  He was throwing way more strikes than I'd ever seen but he certainly didn't have command.  He was in the zone a fair amount but I don't think he really had an idea of where it was going.  

maybe he went from a 2 seam to a 4 seam to get the extra velo.  One thing that stood out was that the fastball and slider seemed to come from the same spot.  When thrown correctly, the fastball stayed up (in a good way) and hitters swung late and couldn't catch up where as the slider had sharp break down and out of the zone vs. LHers and back foot on RHers.  Also getting some ugly swings and misses.  

If I remember correctly, I caught him toward the end of 2019 and his stuff was pretty damn electric.  

Also keep in mind he's never pitched out of the pen.  I bet you his velo ticks up if that's where they have him in 2021.  

I hear what you're saying, it's just hard to generate Velo and consistency in the strike zone from that release point. They may have placed him in a strength training program also. I just do my own scouting in SPT and bring my tools from when I scouted kids. It's fun and keeps me in the game as SPT games get monotonous at times.  

They are a small sample size as you don't know if they were throwing in a B Game earlier in the day. Or, did a bullpen session and then got called in to throw vs a specific team or hitter.

There has been days, I've caught B games, PFP, INF to BP or Bullies, to the Main game and then back to the cages or bullpens.

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Fangraphs comment on our pick:

Quote

9. Los Angeles Angels
Jose Alberto Rivera, RHP (from Astros)
Like Yohan Ramirez last year, Jose Alberto Rivera has big stuff but may not throw enough strikes to stick on a big league roster right now. He sat 97 and touched 100 in 2019, and both his breaking ball and changeup are potential swing-and-miss offerings. He may be less likely to stick with the Angels than he would have been elsewhere given their desire to compete immediately rather than deal with potential wildness.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-2020-rule-5-draft-scouting-reports/

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Unless Rivera performs very well in relief, I kinda hope they throw him back into SP mix after ‘21 if they hold onto him. If he can find a way to harness command and get a couple other pitches passable he could be a really fun rotation candidate. 

Happy either way!

Sucks we lose Soriano but I’m assuming they took a ‘what can you do for me now’ approach with him and with his recovery, lack of upper-level experience, I can somewhat understand why he was left unprotected. Even though Pittsburgh has a good shot at keeping him, it’s not a given either.

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10 minutes ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

So basically we just reacquired Soriano? both throw hard, have an above-average breaking ball, limited controll, without TJ issue.

Idk, I'm still pissed at us not protecting Soriano, The fact that he was selected 1st, while coming of Tj just shows his upside and stuff, plus he still young. I would have kept kept him... 

been kinda thinking that as well. It’s almost like a more high-risk, high-reward version of Soriano. A lot more bust potential and far more likely to only stick as starter as opposed to reliever, but if everything clicks could be a dominant pen arm quickly. 

Plus there’s the fact Rivera can impact the Angels right out of the gate instead of Soriano recovering. 

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50 minutes ago, totdprods said:

been kinda thinking that as well. It’s almost like a more high-risk, high-reward version of Soriano. A lot more bust potential and far more likely to only stick as starter as opposed to reliever, but if everything clicks could be a dominant pen arm quickly. 

Plus there’s the fact Rivera can impact the Angels right out of the gate instead of Soriano recovering. 

well what's done is done. Hopefully Soriano isn't one of those prospects that got a way. 

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2 hours ago, Warfarin said:I do expect at least one more significant reliever added, probably a lefty, and perhaps acquiring a SP (or two) shifts Sandoval and/or Barria to the pen, too.

I think two under the radar names that would very much help out the pen, even without much cost are former Angels Yusmiero Petit and Jose Alvarez.

I think you could get them both for 5-6 M total, and it really rounds out the pen. 

Iglesias, Mayers, Pena, Petit, Alvarez, Buttrey, Rivera, Yan, Reyes, Bard, Keller, and Barria, Suarez, and/or Sandoval.

Good group of names and a lot of depth there. Only Iglesias, Petit, Mayers, Alvarez and Rivera can’t be optioned to AAA. Meaning they can rotate the others.

Barria can’t be optioned but he’s in my projected rotation as of right now, and I think if they get Bauer, he’s def in it. 

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3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

not sure.  All I know is that every report I have read on him has him in the 93 range on his fastball.  I watched him in 2019 on milb and announcers had him touching 96 per the gun.  To me, he still looked like he was slinging from the low 3/4ths across his body.  I probably saw 3-4 outings and it was pretty consistent.  Plus, there is some conflicting reports on his slider but the one I saw was downright nasty.  He was throwing way more strikes than I'd ever seen but he certainly didn't have command.  He was in the zone a fair amount but I don't think he really had an idea of where it was going.  

maybe he went from a 2 seam to a 4 seam to get the extra velo.  One thing that stood out was that the fastball and slider seemed to come from the same spot.  When thrown correctly, the fastball stayed up (in a good way) and hitters swung late and couldn't catch up where as the slider had sharp break down and out of the zone vs. LHers and back foot on RHers.  Also getting some ugly swings and misses.  

If I remember correctly, I caught him toward the end of 2019 and his stuff was pretty damn electric.  

Also keep in mind he's never pitched out of the pen.  I bet you his velo ticks up if that's where they have him in 2021.  

 

3 hours ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

He is dropping down and spinning off the side. Doesn't help with velo! Just my experiences...

Geez, get a room, you two! 😄

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51 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I think two under the radar names that would very much help out the pen, even without much cost are former Angels Yusmiero Petit and Jose Alvarez.

I think you could get them both for 5-6 M total, and it really rounds out the pen. 

Iglesias, Mayers, Pena, Petit, Alvarez, Buttrey, Rivera, Yan, Reyes, Bard, Keller, and Barria, Suarez, and/or Sandoval.

Good group of names and a lot of depth there. Only Iglesias, Petit, Mayers, Alvarez and Rivera can’t be optioned to AAA. Meaning they can rotate the others.

Barria can’t be optioned but he’s in my projected rotation as of right now, and I think if they get Bauer, he’s def in it. 

Yeah.  I think there are a lot of options to be had in this market.  We found the toughest part, which is a closer.  We have multiple high-leverage arms as well too.  We need a few more good arms to round things out, but it shouldn’t be too expensive to find that in this market 

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