MLBTradeRumors 2020 Non-tender Candidates

[totdprods]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/11/2020-non-tender-candidates.html

List is out - should be a wild year for non-tenders, probably more players than usual, perhaps more surprises than usual. 
Anyone stand out as someone of interest if they're non-tendered? Any discussion on the Angels' candidates - Anderson, Andriese, Middleton, and Robles?

Edited November 17, 2020 by totdprods

[BTH]

I'm surprised Noe Ramirez wasn't listed as a candidate, especially since Anderson and Middleton were listed. Yes, Ramirez has been better than them, but he's also out of options and will be making more than either of them.

I'm most interested in the decision of whether or not they tender Andriese a contract. He's projected to make a decent amount, which may be why they would move on from him, but he seemed to be one of Joe Maddon's most trusted relievers at the end of the season and he had a 2.12 ERA in 17 innings last season once he was exclusively pitching in short stints out of the bullpen.

[Warfarin]

58 minutes ago, Trendon said:

I'm surprised Noe Ramirez wasn't listed as a candidate, especially since Anderson and Middleton were listed. Yes, Ramirez has been better than them, but he's also out of options and will be making more than either of them.

I'm most interested in the decision of whether or not they tender Andriese a contract. He's projected to make a decent amount, which may be why they would move on from him, but he seemed to be one of Joe Maddon's most trusted relievers at the end of the season and he had a 2.12 ERA in 17 innings last season once he was exclusively pitching in short stints out of the bullpen.

Given the way Maddon utilized him towards the end of the season, I am inclined to think Maddon wants Andriese to stay, since he sorta seemed to be the #3 option after Mayers and Pena.  His projected salary is rather modest, so I think he is tendered a contract.

For Anderson and Middleton, their projected contracts are so low that I would assume they stay, too.  Robles seems assuredly to be non-tendered, and Noe might be a decent bet, given his lack of options (i.e., less flexibility).

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

I'm surprised Noe Ramirez wasn't listed as a candidate, especially since Anderson and Middleton were listed. Yes, Ramirez has been better than them, but he's also out of options and will be making more than either of them.

I'm most interested in the decision of whether or not they tender Andriese a contract. He's projected to make a decent amount, which may be why they would move on from him, but he seemed to be one of Joe Maddon's most trusted relievers at the end of the season and he had a 2.12 ERA in 17 innings last season once he was exclusively pitching in short stints out of the bullpen.

Noe has been healthy and can go more than 1 inn. That list may not be Angel's list

[totdprods]

Should they wind up being non-tendered, I'd be interested in Hunter Renfroe, Johan Camargo, Hanser Alberto, Austin Hedges, Tyler Naquin, Curt Casali, Orlando Arcia, Carlos Rodon, Vince Velasquez, Jose Urena, Steven Matz, Robert Gsellman, Michael Feliz, Jon Gray, Matt Barnes, Corey Knebel, and Alex Claudio.

Others of course too, but those jump out at me first.

[Lazorko Saves]

So once again, someone somewhere (a MLBTR writer) is taking seriously the idea that Middleton is not worth about $1m next year.  Really?  It's less than double the league minimum for a guy who has electric stuff and will be entering 2nd year after TJS.  That's *exactly* the kind of guy you'd love to find in free agency for only $900k.

As I said in the other thread, if Minasian non-tenders Key, then I will start the "It's Time to Fire Minasian" thread immediately after.

[Second Base]

Hedges, Rodon and Yonny.

[totdprods]

2 hours ago, Lazorko Saves said:

So once again, someone somewhere (a MLBTR writer) is taking seriously the idea that Middleton is not worth about $1m next year.  Really?  It's less than double the league minimum for a guy who has electric stuff and will be entering 2nd year after TJS.  That's *exactly* the kind of guy you'd love to find in free agency for only $900k.

As I said in the other thread, if Minasian non-tenders Key, then I will start the "It's Time to Fire Minasian" thread immediately after.

I see both sides...how different is Keynan Middleton from someone like Gerardo Reyes? Acquiring two Gerardo Reyes costs about the same as one Keynan Middleton, salary-wise. Two arms more options = more roster flexibility = more depth. 

And yeah, I get that we need as many Gerardo Reyes/Keynan Middleton's as we can get...but we also could use an established reliever or two, something neither Keynan nor Gerardo are, and by non-tendering Noe, Middleton, and Anderson, you can perhaps sign one of those guys. 

But yeah, totally fine keeping Middleton too. I agree with your assessment of him.

[Vlad27Trout27]

Gray would be a ideal candidate. The stuff is still there.

Don't know is the sox will non-tender Lopez, but he could be a perfect candidate for a BP role same for urena.

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Lazorko Saves said:

So once again, someone somewhere (a MLBTR writer) is taking seriously the idea that Middleton is not worth about $1m next year.  Really?  It's less than double the league minimum for a guy who has electric stuff and will be entering 2nd year after TJS.  That's *exactly* the kind of guy you'd love to find in free agency for only $900k.

As I said in the other thread, if Minasian non-tenders Key, then I will start the "It's Time to Fire Minasian" thread immediately after.

Middleton is probably like 10 or 20 other guys that will be out there to take a flier on.  Guys at league min.  

Volatile pen arm.  I'd probably rather keep him but no biggy if they don't.  

You'll want to Fire Minasian over Key Middleton?  lol.  

[BTH]

20 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Hedges, Rodon and Yonny.

Chirinos is very interesting, but I doubt the Rays non-tender him. The only reason he's on the list is because he had TJ surgery and he plays for the Rays who are cheap.

If anything, I'd imagine they trade him because he should have plenty of value. If the Rays do have him on the trade market, he's someone the Angels should pursue, despite the fact that he may be out for most of 2021.

[totdprods]

...I also wonder if Key's anthem protests and Twitter comments might have drawn some ire from Arte. Not that I have any reason to think Arte would be that involved, nor do I believe Key did anything meriting a non-tender, but, if he wound up non-tendered it wouldn't surprise me. 

Personally, if Key isn't in the future plans, I'd hope they swing some sort of change of scenery trade for him, maybe even for one of the guys listed above. 

I would argue that something like Keynan Middleton for Hunter Renfroe, Austin Hedges, Johan Camargo, Hanser Alberto, or Orlando Arcia would be somewhat reasonable. A team in a budget pinch and a track record with pitching might jump at the chance to get someone like Keynan for a player they may be considering non-tendering to save money.

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by totdprods

[Lazorko Saves]

41 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Middleton is probably like 10 or 20 other guys that will be out there to take a flier on.

Really?  You have an opportunity to educate me here.  Name those 10-20 guys who are:

1. Age 27 or less.

2. Throw upper 90s/touching 100.

3. Have 95+ MLB IP with sub 3.5 ERA, and 9+ K/9.

4. Have team control all the way out through 2023.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Lazorko Saves

[BTH]

43 minutes ago, totdprods said:

...I also wonder if Key's anthem protests and Twitter comments might have drawn some ire from Arte.
 

I have to imagine that Key's Twitter/social media comments got some attention from the organization.

A number of fans were livid at him, and criticizing your fanbase isn't a good look, regardless of whether it's deserved or not (and in this case, I don't think it's deserved). Over 3 million Angels fans have showed up to the stadium to support the team for the past 17 straight seasons before 2020. Even when they were terrible from 2016-2019. Yet he still goes on social media and trashes the team's fans? He ended up deleting his twitter account, and I wonder if the Angels had input in that.

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Lazorko Saves said:

Really?  You have an opportunity to educate me here.  Name those 10-20 guys who are:

1. Age 27 or less.

2. Throw upper 90s/touching 100.

3. Have 95+ MLB IP with sub 3.5 ERA, and 9+ K/9.

4. Have team control all the way out through 2023.

I'm aware of his stats.  He also has an FIP that's almost a run higher.  He can be prone to the long ball, his walk rate has been high of late (maybe because he's still recovering?) and his fastball is pretty flat.  

He's likely worth keeping.  He could be exactly the type of guy Minasian would look to get or he could be the complete opposite.  There are likely plenty of scouting reports and metrics that he's privy to that show things outside of what you've mentioned.  Hence the 10 or 20 other guys.  For reasons that aren't based on what you see or what I see but what he sees which I am, frankly, more inclined to rely on than your criteria.  

My point was that I'm not going to grab a pitchfork and ask for his head if we non-tender Keynan Middleton.  

 

[Warfarin]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I'm aware of his stats.  He also has an FIP that's almost a run higher.  He can be prone to the long ball, his walk rate has been high of late (maybe because he's still recovering?) and his fastball is pretty flat.  

He's likely worth keeping.  He could be exactly the type of guy Minasian would look to get or he could be the complete opposite.  There are likely plenty of scouting reports and metrics that he's privy to that show things outside of what you've mentioned.  Hence the 10 or 20 other guys.  For reasons that aren't based on what you see or what I see but what he sees which I am, frankly, more inclined to rely on than your criteria.  

My point was that I'm not going to grab a pitchfork and ask for his head if we non-tender Keynan Middleton.  

 

I think the bigger issue for relievers who are somewhat mediocre is whether or not they have options remaining.  A key aspect to the modern bullpen is the ability to option relievers back and forth, as needed, depending on performance, other injuries, etc.

I could see someone like Noe Ramirez (who has no options remaining) as a more likely non-tender candidate than Middleton (who does have options), simply because at their projected cost (~1-2mil), the bigger issue is flexibility (or a lack thereof).

 

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I think the bigger issue for relievers who are somewhat mediocre is whether or not they have options remaining.  A key aspect to the modern bullpen is the ability to option relievers back and forth, as needed, depending on performance, other injuries, etc.

I could see someone like Noe Ramirez (who has no options remaining) as a more likely non-tender candidate than Middleton (who does have options), simply because at their projected cost (~1-2mil), the bigger issue is flexibility (or a lack thereof).

 

100% agree.  

[Lazorko Saves]

Okay, but we didn't non-tender Keynan at the beginning of 2019, after the surgery.  When we was making league minimum.  Maybe what ya'll are saying is we should have done it then.

He's gonna likely be finally healthy now, and the approximately $350k or so Arb2 pay increase is now not worth it?  I don't get that.  Was the $563k for a mostly lost 2019 worth it?

[BTH]

18 minutes ago, Lazorko Saves said:

Okay, but we didn't non-tender Keynan at the beginning of 2019, after the surgery.  When we was making league minimum.  Maybe what ya'll are saying is we should have done it then.

He's gonna likely be finally healthy now, and the approximately $350k or so Arb2 pay increase is now not worth it?  I don't get that.  Was the $563k for a mostly lost 2019 worth it?

Keynan regressed in 2020. Also in 2020, he started going after Angels fans on social media and was talking trash about them during the middle of the season when he was terrible.

Also, the pandemic factors into how teams are evaluating what they pay players. A lot of players are going to get non-tendered so that there is a flood of free agents on the market and the players have to end up settling for league minimum or MiLB deals.

[Docwaukee]

35 minutes ago, Lazorko Saves said:

Okay, but we didn't non-tender Keynan at the beginning of 2019, after the surgery.  When we was making league minimum.  Maybe what ya'll are saying is we should have done it then.

He's gonna likely be finally healthy now, and the approximately $350k or so Arb2 pay increase is now not worth it?  I don't get that.  Was the $563k for a mostly lost 2019 worth it?

is anyone saying he should be non-tendered?  

What I am saying is that sure.  Keep him.  If they don't then ok, they must have their reasons.  Yet apparently, you think that's enough to think Minasian should be fired.  

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Some opportunities that could be out there:

1. Johan Camargo 2B/3B/SS/LF/RF - Played Bold in 2019

2. Kris Bryant LF/RF/3B/1B/DH - If he gets non-tendered he will be less than 18M and Joe loved his position flexibility. 8-10M to play with one of his buddies Mike Trout? He becomes the 1st baseman when AP#05 leaves next year. Maybe, replaces JUP ***Cubs will trade him before they non-tender him though***...

3. Eddie Rosario LF/RF -  Becomes one of your corner starters and allows Adell & Marsh another Minor League season.

4. Brian Goodwin LF/CF/RF -  Welcome back and once again is the 4th OFer.

5. Jose Martinez 1B/LF/RF/DH  -  Just seems like a guy who can hit and has some flexibility and could slide into 1B next year and DH on Ohtani's pitching and off days. Had a couple good years with the Cardinals.

6. Tyler Anderson SP - Put up some decent yet unspectacular innings did throw a 3 hit shutout vs D-Backs. if we move some backend guys might be a decent get to fill the backend. If I'm going to gamble, I will gamble on a lefty.

7. Steven Matz SP -  Same as Tyler Anderson, a change of scenery might do him good.

8. Vince Velasquez SP - Same as above k/9 12.2 

9. Corey Knebel RP - K/9 can he get back to Closer #'s of 2017? --- NON-Roster invite to SPT

10. Wandy Peralta RP - Pretty good season with the Giants last year. --- NON-Roster invite to SPT

 

Maybe, who knows?

[Warfarin]

I think in the end, this list shows there will be a number of useful MLB players available at fairly cheap prices.  SP will always be expensive, but other areas of need for us (relief, middle infield, platoon OF, backup C) should be rather cheap and easy to fill.  Attacking these areas should enable us to increase our floor at a cheap price, which in turn will enable us to utilize us to be creative in trying to improve SP.

[Lazorko Saves]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

Yet apparently, you think that's enough to think Minasian should be fired.  

No, technically, I stated that I think it's reason enough to start the "Fire Minasian" thread here.  Not exactly the same thing.  With a pinch of hyperbole on my part.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Lazorko Saves said:

No, technically, I stated that I think it's reason enough to start the "Fire Minasian" thread here.  Not exactly the same thing.  With a pinch of hyperbole on my part.

ok.  start your thread over Keynan Middleton.  I'm sure it will get spur a ton of legit baseball discussion.  

[Lazorko Saves]

48 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I'm sure it will get spur a ton of legit baseball discussion.  

You know it.  I shall endeavor to live up the high standards the previous "Fire [insert Angels staff member name here]" threads set.