Angels announce Perry Minasian as their next general manager

[Stradling 26,999]

3 minutes ago, Yes We Can said:

I don't understand why some people are against the draft strategy the team employed in 2020. I think if they had used the same strategy for the last 6 years the team may be in a better place.

Who’s against it?  What was there draft strategy?

[Stradling 26,999]

I imagine if you asked Eppler he will say he goes into the draft with the philosophy of take best player available. 

[Inside Pitch 16,667]

JFC....  The Angels supposed strength at the time was their youthful rotation.  Their weakness was the complete lack of position player depth up and down the system.

These were the pitchers on hand in 2015 and their ages.   

Tyler Skaggs - 23
Andrew Heaney - 24
Nick Tropeano - 24
Garrett Richards - 27
Hector Santiago - 27
Matt Shoemaker - 28

Nate Smith was 23 and still had a functioning arm in AAA too.

At the same time the Angels had all of TWO position players under age 27..

Mike Trout - 23
CJ Cron - 25

When Eppler took over he had no starting C, a shit-tastic 2B, no starting 3B, no starting LFer,    He used Newcomb and Ellis to fill out SS where Aybar was an expiring contract and there was no SS in waiting.

The AAA roster in 2016 had this   Sherman Johnson, Kaleb Cowart, Rafael Ortega, Kyle Kubitza, Graterol, Bandy, Benboom.   The AA roster had this Alex Yarbrough, Briceno, Fletcher and the average age of the position players was 24.6 .... meaning the entire team combined was already slightly above the league average age.   High A had this...  Taylor Ward, Fletcher, Baldoquin, Hermosillo and the average age of the position players was 22.9 -- so once again, slightly older than the league average.

Heaney, Richards, Shoemaker, and Tropeano all pitched in 2020 -- Skaggs would have as well.  

The decision to focus on bats was 100% predicated on the total lack of position player depth up and down the system.  No amount of hindsight or revisionist history changes that reality.
 

[tdawg87 31,937]

26 minutes ago, Yes We Can said:

I don't understand why some people are against the draft strategy the team employed in 2020. I think if they had used the same strategy for the last 6 years the team may be in a better place.

In 2017, the Angels drafted 23 pitchers, including Griffin Canning.

In 2018, the Angels drafted 29 pitchers, including Aaron Hernandez.

In 2019, the Angels drafted 28 pitchers, including Jack Kochanowicz.

In 2020 they took 2 pitchers, including Detmers.

That's 82 pitchers drafted in 4 years. I'd say the focus has been pitching. You're hung up on first round picks, but you're ignoring things like signability, draft pools, or the fact that better players have simply been available. 2017? Jo Adell. 2018? Jordyn Adams. In 2019, we took Wilson first and signed him underslot so we could afford to nab Kochanowicz in the 3rd round.

Also, let's not ignore international signings:

In 2017, the Angels signed 5 pitchers from either the Dominican Republic or Venezuela.

In 2018, they signed 4 pitchers.

In 2019, they signed 9 pitchers.

So that's 100 pitchers in 4 years. Pitching has absolutely been the focus, but the FO realizes that drafting is so much more complicated than "We need this NOW so let's draft what we need NOW!" 

It's an incredibly complex process that involves scouts all over the country, plus a strategy that involves draft pools allotment.

 

[tdawg87 31,937]

Also what IP said.

[Yes We Can 24]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

The decision to focus on bats was 100% predicated on the total lack of position player depth up and down the system. 

My point is exactly this. I think this strategy was a mistake. From 2015-2019 the Angels drafted only one pitcher in the first two rounds of the draft. I think if they had gone after more high level college pitchers the team would be in a better place.

[Yes We Can 24]

11 hours ago, cvdog said:

Can we please start developing pitchers in our farm system once again? His #1 job is obviously beefing up our pitching staff.

I agree. 

[Chuckster70 20,848]

1 hour ago, Yes We Can said:

I don't understand why some people are against the draft strategy the team employed in 2020. I think if they had used the same strategy for the last 6 years the team may be in a better place.

I agree with this and I hope that we see more of the same from this past amateur draft doing forward unless there's a can't miss bat that falls to us in the draft. 

[tdawg87 31,937]

58 minutes ago, Yes We Can said:

My point is exactly this. I think this strategy was a mistake. From 2015-2019 the Angels drafted only one pitcher in the first two rounds of the draft. I think if they had gone after more high level college pitchers the team would be in a better place.

[Inside Pitch 16,667]

7 hours ago, Yes We Can said:

My point is exactly this. I think this strategy was a mistake. From 2015-2019 the Angels drafted only one pitcher in the first two rounds of the draft. I think if they had gone after more high level college pitchers the team would be in a better place.

You have hindsight to work with and still you have no idea if what you think would be true.  For all we know they would simply have a different set of problems.  Facts are when you draft pitching not only do you have to trust you're making the right choice but you have to also be lucky to avoid arm injuries which we have seen isn't anything remotely close to science.

Reality is the Angels ended 2020 with four SPs sporting an ERA+ over 100, three of them 113 or better and none of them are named Ohtani.   Had the defense not been a joke the SP would have likely done a better job of limiting runs.  Obviously pitching depth remains an issue, but there is a decent pipeline of position players in place everywhere except at catcher.  

The Angels needed everything by 2015, they chose to focus on the least risky of those needs .. position players.  They loaded the back of every draft with arms and backed that up with more arms via the international market as @tdawg87pointed out.  Moving forward my guess is we see a more balanced approach, but if they end up going hard after pitching it will be because of their decision to try to fill the many positional black holes there were in the system.

They still need catching in a big way...

[Stradling 26,999]

18 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

You have hindsight to work with and still you have no idea if what you think would be true.  For all we know they would simply have a different set of problems.  Facts are that when drafting pitching not only do you have to trust you're making the right choice but you have to also be lucky to avoid arm injuries which we have seen isn't anything remotely close to science.

Fact of the matter is the Angels ended 2020 with four SPs sporting an ERA+ over 100, three of them 113 or better and none of them are named Ohtani.   Had the defense not been a joke the SP would have likely done a better job of limiting runs.  Obviously pitching depth remains an issue, but there is a decent pipeline of position players in place everywhere except at catcher.  

The Angels needed everything by 2015, they chose to focus on the least risky of those needs .. position players.  They loaded the back of every draft with arms and backed that up with more arms via the international market as @tdawg87pointed out.  Moving forward my guess is we see a more balanced approach, but if they end up going hard after pitching it will be because of their decision to try to fill the many positional black holes there were in the system.

They still need catching in a big way...

“So don’t draft pitchers because you’re afraid they’ll get injured, got it”

-YWC

[Yes We Can 24]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

You have hindsight to work with and still you have no idea if what you think would be true.  For all we know they would simply have a different set of problems.  Facts are that when drafting pitching not only do you have to trust you're making the right choice but you have to also be lucky to avoid arm injuries which we have seen isn't anything remotely close to science.

Reality is the Angels ended 2020 with four SPs sporting an ERA+ over 100, three of them 113 or better and none of them are named Ohtani.   Had the defense not been a joke the SP would have likely done a better job of limiting runs.  Obviously pitching depth remains an issue, but there is a decent pipeline of position players in place everywhere except at catcher.  

The Angels needed everything by 2015, they chose to focus on the least risky of those needs .. position players.  They loaded the back of every draft with arms and backed that up with more arms via the international market as @tdawg87pointed out.  Moving forward my guess is we see a more balanced approach, but if they end up going hard after pitching it will be because of their decision to try to fill the many positional black holes there were in the system.

They still need catching in a big way...

My belief is a team needs to look for high end pitchers in the first two rounds. This is where nearly all of the drafted top of the order SP's are found. Every year is different and it's always going to be hit and miss. I'm not saying we shouldn't still go after toolsy teenagers but let's balance it out. In the five years prior to this most recent draft there were 10 picks in the top two rounds. Only one was a pitcher, Griffin Canning. And he is the only one of those 10 draft choices that has had a positive impact. If 5 of those picks were pitchers instead of only 1 the team would be in a better place in my opinion.

So it's obvious you don't agree with my opinion, and I respect that. Others agree. That's how it works. Let's move on. Enjoy your day.

[Taylor 16,450]

I'm pretty sure if you look at a list of all the pitchers who were drafted in the first two rounds from 2015-2019, you'd find that the majority of them aren't panning out.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Taylor

[Yes We Can 24]

On 11/12/2020 at 7:12 PM, Chuckster70 said:

 

"His experiences make Perry Minasian perhaps uniquely suited to run a major league team at the moment. The game has skewed toward more and more data-driven decisions. Data is a great tool. But data can’t predict how a team on the same page might outperform its projections. It can’t predict how an organization, from isolated scouts in far-flung locations to minor league instructors to front office types, can better function if the boss understands and empathizes with their issues because he’s been in their exact situation. It’s still a game played by and maintained by people."

"For too long, baseball has swung from one end of the pendulum to the other. In Perry Minasian, the former clubhouse kid from Arlington, the Angels may have found a way to combine best of both worlds."

He seems to have a really nice hybrid mentality of old school and new school. I think he and Maddon will be a nice duo.

[Inside Pitch 16,667]

2 hours ago, Taylor said:

I'm pretty sure if you look at a list of all the pitchers who were drafted in the first two rounds from 2015-2019, you'd find that the majority of them aren't panning out.

And you'd be right...

The Astros had back to back years (2013/14), with the first overall pick and both times spent it on a SP...    Neither one of them made it to MLB.  Both are out of baseball.   Carlos Correa 1-1 (12), and Alex Bregman 1-2 (15), meanwhile went on to be all stars for them.   

3 hours ago, Yes We Can said:

So it's obvious you don't agree with my opinion, and I respect that. Others agree. That's how it works. Let's move on. Enjoy your day.

Good lord.  It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with you, perhaps you're guilty of projection and you should take your own unwarranted advice?

What I did do was attempt to put the team's actual situation and their stated motivations at the time into context -- that's it.   That post didn't quote anyone, wasn't in response to anyone it was intended to stand on it's own.   You then engaged me..  as such... you don't get to tell me when I'm done with anything -- that's how it works.

Once again.

The Angels made a decision to try to address their system wide deficiencies by focusing on position players in the early rounds -- of that there is no question.   Outside of the catching position they have done a decent job of shoring things up, particularly with Rendon having filled the need for a legit 3B.  And yet... despite focusing on 1st round position players they DID manage to draft and graduate a SP during that span -- albeit he was a second rounder. 

How does that compare with the rest of the AL?   Well, Griffin Canning gives the Angels one more SP originally drafted and graduated by the team since 2015 than the Yankees, Rays, Blue Jays, Red Sox, Twins, White Sox, Astros, Mariners, Athletics, and Rangers...

You know what team has drafted and graduated the most SPs in the AL the last five years?  The Indians (four) and of those four NONE of them fit your criteria of first round college pitchers.  The lone first rounder (Tristan McKenzie), was drafted out of HS.  Beiber was a 4th rounder, Plesac was a 12th rounder, Civale a 3rd rounder.   Both the Royals and Tigers have two -- and of those four only one (Casey Mize) was a first rounder -- Brady Singer was a 2nd rounder.   The Orioles have 1, (Keegan Akin), taken in the second.  The Mariners BTW do have a pitcher drafted out of college and in the first round -- Justin Dunn who was acquired via trade.   The A's have Luzardo, taken out of HS in the 3rd round by the Nationals.

For anyone keeping track -- that's 10 of the 15 AL teams who have failed to draft and graduate ANY SPs drafted in ANY round since 2015.   Of the 5 teams that DID draft and graduate pitchers (which includes the Angels), only ONE pitcher was a college first rounder.   That's 15 teams, 6 years of drafts and ONE pitcher that fits your criteria.

Gonna go enjoy my day now.

[tdawg87 31,937]

IP out here commiting murders again.

[Stradling 26,999]

“911, I’d like to report a murder”

[Stradling 26,999]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

IP out here commiting murders again.

Dick

[Inside Pitch 16,667]

Writing that last post it became very clear that it doesn't really matter how you acquire pitching so long as you do.  Also the Indians are in a league of their own among AL teams when it comes to developing arms.  They have had some guys go down with injuries too.   Thats the other big thing...its crazy how many of these guys go down with injuries and see their development slowed.

When push comes to shove, there is more than one way to skin a cat..   Playoff teams find ways of getting pitching, period.  

[Dochalo 24,994]

[Pancake Bear 1,991]

4 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Writing that last post it became very clear that it doesn't really matter how you acquire pitching so long as you do.  Also the Indians are in a league of their own among AL teams when it comes to developing arms.  They have had some guys go down with injuries too.   Thats the other big thing its crazy how many of these guys go down with injuries and see their development slowed.

When push comes to shove -- there is more than one way to skin a cat..   Playoff teams find ways of getting pitching, period.  

So, what you're saying is Minasian needs to poach an AGM from Cleveland. 

[Inside Pitch 16,667]

7 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

So, what you're saying is Minasian needs to poach an AGM from Cleveland. 

Failing that, kidnap them.

[Yes We Can 24]

I think Minasian is going to build a great team. I like what I hear and read so far.

[Revad 499]

Solid choice IMO.  He’s got Trout, Rendon and some good young players.  If he thinks he’s going to be here for 4 years that will make a big difference.  The GM search had a good outome.

[Yes We Can 24]

48 minutes ago, Revad said:

Solid choice IMO.  He’s got Trout, Rendon and some good young players.  If he thinks he’s going to be here for 4 years that will make a big difference.  The GM search had a good outome.

I agree. Very solid. Great story also.