Ohno Stroman accepts QO

[Bronson]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Amen, now try telling that to the people who think trading for Lindor on an expiring contract is a good idea.   

The real Trout window was when he was cheap.   Those days are long gone.

 

At this point it’s just basically respecting Trout for staying and getting him to the playoffs as ASAP. Trout probably only has 3 years left of prime Trout. 
 

People wanna see a prime Trout in the postseason. I really don’t think we’re far off. The West is not a powerhouse. Houston gets weaker every single year. Oakland can go to instant shit at anytime. 
 

That being said I do agree there really isn’t no “Trout Window” anymore. Trout will be in the playoffs eventually with us... it’s just a matter of will it be that fun to watch prime Trout... 

[Bronson]

Just now, Bronson said:

At this point it’s just basically respecting Trout for staying and getting him to the playoffs as ASAP. Trout probably only has 3 years left of prime Trout. 
 

People wanna see a prime Trout in the postseason. I really don’t think we’re far off. The West is not a powerhouse. Houston gets weaker every single year. Oakland can go to instant shit at anytime. 
 

That being said I do agree there really isn’t no “Trout Window” anymore. Trout will be in the playoffs eventually with us... it’s just a matter of will it be that fun to watch prime Trout... 

Wow I said prime Trout a lot. 
 

Prime Trout.

[Inside Pitch]

11 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

This will probably ruffle some feathers, but the Trout window at this point is a lot closer to what 'the Pujols window' should've been. There is an obvious opportunity but it will only come through realized player development, not from continually trying to find that one 'missing piece.'

That's exactly what it was.   

You had a young guy performing at ridiculous levels and just for shits and giggles at a position where "A" grade offense is a huge boon.  The best possible action was to spend around him while you are getting all that extra value.   They decided to throw that money at 1B despite having a 24 year old 1B in the fold, then at Hamilton.

They blew it years ago.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Bronson said:

At this point it’s just basically respecting Trout for staying and getting him to the playoffs as ASAP. Trout probably only has 3 years left of prime Trout. 
 

People wanna see a prime Trout in the postseason. I really don’t think we’re far off. The West is not a powerhouse. Houston gets weaker every single year. Oakland can go to instant shit at anytime. 
 

That being said I do agree there really isn’t no “Trout Window” anymore. Trout will be in the playoffs eventually with us... it’s just a matter of will it be that fun to watch prime Trout... 

I agree with you.

I'm not saying punt, I'm saying add as many pieces as possible.  Add mid level SPs, Walker, Quintana, Richards types.  Try to make the bullpen a strength, and add someone at 2B or RF.   Fix the black holes FFS.

There are paths to success, but they all require getting over .500 and into the playoffs first.

[Docwaukee]

40 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I agree with you.

I'm not saying punt, I'm saying add as many pieces as possible.  Add mid level SPs, Walker, Quintana, Richards types.  Try to make the bullpen a strength, and add someone at 2B or RF.   Fix the black holes FFS.

There are paths to success, but they all require getting over .500 and into the playoffs first.

all they need to do is avoid the true disasters.  no more Teheran or Harvey or Cahill or Lincecum or Bour or Allen etc.  Even reasonable player in those spots are amazing upgrades.  So for 2021 you don't rely on guys like Rengifo or Suarez or a potential -1 WAR player out of the pen.  

[Yes We Can]

2014 is the last season we have had 5 starting pitchers each start at least 24 games. And Skaggs had 18 starts before his UCL injury. So I think winning 98 games in 2014 was more about adding pitching depth and not about the "all in" moves.

Yes, we went "all in" that year with Josh Hamilton and that was a disaster. And yes, we had gone "all in" with Pujols and CJ Wilson in 2011 and those big spends did not pay off over time. I am pretty sure we were still paying Vernon Wells not to play baseball - foreshadowing our future with Hamilton. 

I think trading for Santiago and Skaggs, signing Joe Smith, Matt Shoemaker's first year as an MLB starter and adding Huston Street's expiring contract at the trade deadline were the keys to the 2014 success.

So if the Angels follow the 2014 blueprint (without an "all in" dumb signing like Hamilton) by trading for or signing SP and RP depth and add a 2B, I think they can be a playoff team. 

2014's Skaggs, Santiago, Shoemaker, Street, David Freese and Joe Smith

2021's Richards, Shoemaker, Barria, Treinen, Kolten Wong and Jake McGee

[tdawg87]

This kinda sucks. 

But honestly we just don't know how the off-season will play out. It's unlike any off-season we've seen before. 

I just hope we can improve the roster somehow.

[Lou]

4 hours ago, m0nkey said:

Every time.

[Second Base]

The root of this problem still lies in drafting and player development. Simply put, if Eppler had used his early draft picks on pitching, the Angels may still be a similar situation, but it wouldn't necessarily be a long term issue.

As much of a fan as I am Jordyn Adams and Jeremiah Jackson, had he spent those picks on pitching, we'd have a couple of solid starters in AA right now, ready to step in next year, along with Detmers. Will Wilson was an absolute waste of a draft pick.

And on the international front, we've been position player heavy. Trent Deveaux, D'Shawn Knowles, Alex Ramirez, Raider Uceta, Rainier Rivas, Arol Vera, and Jose Bonilla. Not a ton of investment in upside arms.

Just draft and sign some pitchers and your good. It's not that complicated.

Since the market is narrowing, it looks like the next GM will be forced to take away the position player depth and overpay for any semblance of upside pitching.

[Yes We Can]

42 minutes ago, Second Base said:

As much of a fan as I am Jordyn Adams and Jeremiah Jackson, had he spent those picks on pitching, we'd have a couple of solid starters in AA right now, ready to step in next year, along with Detmers. Will Wilson was an absolute waste of a draft pick.

 

I agree. As an example, If he went with a college pitchers instead of toolsy athletes we could have a Brady Singer in our 2021 rotation instead of Jordyn Adams in A+ ball. In retrospect his decision to steer clear of college pitchers for position players backfired. Probably cost him his job.

[Revad]

2 hours ago, Second Base said:

The root of this problem still lies in drafting and player development. Simply put, if Eppler had used his early draft picks on pitching, the Angels may still be a similar situation, but it wouldn't necessarily be a long term issue.

As much of a fan as I am Jordyn Adams and Jeremiah Jackson, had he spent those picks on pitching, we'd have a couple of solid starters in AA right now, ready to step in next year, along with Detmers. Will Wilson was an absolute waste of a draft pick.

And on the international front, we've been position player heavy. Trent Deveaux, D'Shawn Knowles, Alex Ramirez, Raider Uceta, Rainier Rivas, Arol Vera, and Jose Bonilla. Not a ton of investment in upside arms.

Just draft and sign some pitchers and your good. It's not that complicated.

Since the market is narrowing, it looks like the next GM will be forced to take away the position player depth and overpay for any semblance of upside pitching.

Ray went for $8 million and that may have been an overpay.  Walker and Smiley/Richards

[Angels 1961]

Mike Minor, Garrett Richards and Anthony DeSclafani are starters to get cheap. Spend some more on RP, get a Ceasar Hernandez for 2B and Joc Pederson for LF RF. Plus you will need a defensive catcher until Stassi comes back.

[Revad]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

Mike Minor, Garrett Richards and Anthony DeSclafani are starters to get cheap. Spend some more on RP, get a Ceasar Hernandez for 2B and Joc Pederson for LF RF. Plus you will need a defensive catcher until Stassi comes back.

Arte won’t spend early, if at all.

[angelsnationtalk]

7 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Why?   Is baseball going to die?

Maybe you've missed it but I've repeatedly said I want the Angels to win over the long haul, including after Mike Trout is gone.  The go all in lets win now mentality gets them where?  Was winning 98 games in 2014 worth losing the next 5 years?

This team needs to get a lot smarter and think a lot further ahead than it has in recent years.   Not sure they can do it all over the course of a single winter but FFS, they need to get it together.  They currently have two SPs who will be eligible for FA after next year.  Add a front line guy this year, lose two mid tier SPs next year... What's the point.  People who think its Bauer or bust can't see the forest for the trees.

They need to keep adding and try to avoid the expensive mistakes.

You're missing my point. I don't want a win now screw the following years plan. My point is I feel like we've all been saying let's build from there for the last 5 years now and we seem to be going in circles with results. I think we can all agree on that. 

[Taylor]

Bummer about this Ohno Stroman guy. What about Marcus Stroman?

[Blarg]

8 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Why?   Is baseball going to die?

Well, Manfred is doing his best to kill it. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

I go after plan A Bauer (whether or not he accepts).

Plan B while in negotiations with Bauer. (BAUER balks)

Contact Starting pitchers: Paxton, Walker, Tanaka, DeSclafani, Ray & Richard's. (Sign 3).

Plan B2 while in negotiations with the above. Contact relief pitchers: Rosenthal, Hand, Hendricks, Treinen, McGee, Rondon, Yates, Watson (sign 4)

I'm tired of not having enough arms. I'm tired of AAAA projects, I'm tired of pitchers throwing well elsewhere and fall apart here. We cannot place all the eggs in the Basket of Ohtani. He comes back! Great, if not? Then you have others to slide in.

[Inside Pitch]

9 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

You're missing my point. I don't want a win now screw the following years plan. My point is I feel like we've all been saying let's build from there for the last 5 years now and we seem to be going in circles with results. I think we can all agree on that. 

Physician heal thyself.    Talk about missing someone's point.

I was suggesting the team actually spend in multiple areas to actually address the glaring issues, something they really haven't done unless you consider the Bour/Allen/Harvey clusterfuck spending.   Additionally I suggested actually trading prospect currency on top of that -- thus the building on that comment..... 

The Angels haven't "done that" the last 5 years...  Anyone who would "agree" they have is delusional.

When responding to someone, make sure you get their point.

[Inside Pitch]

18 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

This kinda sucks. 

But honestly we just don't know how the off-season will play out. It's unlike any off-season we've seen before. 

I just hope we can improve the roster somehow.

Which is why they should take some risks, strike early, and pay what they would be comfortable paying, particularly if the payouts represent a savings on what they would have paid in a regular season.  Think making the postseason and actually seeing some gate money and extra resources helped the Dodgers' (and everyone else who made the post season), bottom line last year?

Brad Hand isn't available for Cody Allen money in any normal situation.  If you can get him for 2 or 3 years at 8-9 mil you can end up way ahead...  That's the sort of shit they should be considering. 

There are risks, and reasons why its prudent to wait it out a bit, but then you risk being left holding the bag.... Again....

[Angel Oracle]

16 hours ago, Yes We Can said:

I agree. As an example, If he went with a college pitchers instead of toolsy athletes we could have a Brady Singer in our 2021 rotation instead of Jordyn Adams in A+ ball. In retrospect his decision to steer clear of college pitchers for position players backfired. Probably cost him his job.

That plus Allen/Harvey/Cahill/Teheran

That’s like Dumbpoto bringing in Blanton/Hanson/Burnett/Madsen.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Angels 1961]

Drew Smyly signs 1 year 11 mill so I more off the board.