YOU Build the 2021 Angels // YOUR Offseason Plan

[totdprods]

Update 10.5: Assessing the results in next few days, with 2022 thread to post soon!

We've had prediction threads, we've had offseason wishlist threads, we've had what you want to see happen, what you think we'll see. Almost every thread recently has devolved into an 'offseason plan' thread at some point.

But what I'm hoping for this thread though is (for the time being) no discussion, no debate, no arguments for or against, just a very simple list what you would do this offseason if you were GM in a quick, easy format.

The idea being we can revisit this later and discuss midseason/next offseason and see how things are going for everyone’s respective plans.

You can edit/revise your plans at three different times:

1. When players accept/reject Qualifiying Offers. Kevin Gausman and Marcus Stroman likely figure to be on many plans, and there’s a chance neither hit the open market, as we saw with Odorizzi last winter. I believe we should know this within two weeks or so, so you can also wait. 
2. When Trevor Bauer signs, since he will likely be on a majority of submitted plans - here’s an opportunity to pivot if he signs elsewhere.
3. Around Dec. 2nd, 8pm ET, at the non-tender deadline. A significant number of free agents will be added, some of which could alter plans significantly. 

In addition, I will potentially bump the thread once or twice this winter with an option to edit. The first will be if we learn of a specific amount from Arte/the FO is intending to spend this offseason, and the second will be late into the offseason, perhaps even right before Spring Training, in order to allow any last minute bargains. 

When this happens, please edit your post but keep original plan detailed still. Strikethrough the text or write out your edited plan. 

As of now, we’ll assume the Angels can add up to $30m in salary to the 2021 payroll. It could be less, could be more. 

Overall, try to be as specific as possible when it comes to your money offered or players involved in trade. There are links below to help us work within a standardized set of trade and contract values. 

Feel free to offer contingencies, i.e, pivoting to Gausman if Bauer doesn’t sign, but try to limit yourself to a couple options, maybe a Plan B or C, for the sake of the exercise. 

Think outside the box - signing Bauer or Stroman are nice ideas, but names like Dylan Bundy, Mike Mayers, and Max Stassi were some of the biggest additions to the 2020 Angels over their 2019 counterparts. No one saw that coming - and that’s part of the fun. So, go out on a limb here or there.

A few handy links to reference in forming your plans:

• List of free agents can be found here. 
• Determining contract terms (values/lengths): https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2021-top-50-free-agents/
• Determining trade values (approximate, standardized): https://www.baseballtradevalues.com
• The 2020 thread and Results thread 
• If applicable, using the projected arbitration salaries from MLBTR.

###

My ideas:

1. Trade for Joe Musgrove - Adams, Knowles, Suarez, Jackson, and Thaiss for Musgrove and Richard Rodriguez (adds about $5m in salary)
2. Non-tender Robles, Middleton, Ramirez, Andriese, and Anderson (frees up around $10.5m)
3. Sign Jose Quintana 1/$8m
4. Sign Kolten Wong 2/$16m
5. Sign Hunter Renfroe or Tyler Naquin 1/$5m
6. Sign any three of Mark Melancon, Shane Greene, Ryan Tepera, Joakim Soria, or Matt Wisler that come in around 1/$3m
7. Sign Kurt Suzuki 1/$3m

Edited October 5, 2021 by totdprods

[Docwaukee]

[Angelsjunky]

I'm in. 

As far as trade values are concerned, does the Angels offer have to to be equal or higher? Or is there, say, a 10% leeway? The reason I ask is I don't want to think up trades that add in a bunch of minor players to flesh out a deal - that happens to some extent, but not excessively.

[eligrba]

It's much easier to criticize the ideas of others. I'll wait.

[Angelsjunky]

1 minute ago, eligrba said:

It's much easier to criticize the ideas of others. I'll wait.

Thanks, @Lou.

[totdprods]

19 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I'm in. 

As far as trade values are concerned, does the Angels offer have to to be equal or higher? Or is there, say, a 10% leeway? The reason I ask is I don't want to think up trades that add in a bunch of minor players to flesh out a deal - that happens to some extent, but not excessively.

There’s definitely wiggle room, as I personally don’t feel the trade value site is all that accurate. It’s just nice having it as reference, and to keep folks from offering ideas that are wildly off. Take the 2020 Results thread as an example. One trade was Marsh, Rengifo, Sandoval, Barria, and Adams? for Darvish, Contreras, and Chatwood. I think that would have been fair for the time. 

As long as it’s not like 80 value points versus 20 or anything extremely lopsided. 

Similarly, for contracts, it just needs to have a reasonable shot at being realistic. Much like last year, when I draw up conclusions, I’ll try to work it in the poster’s favor.

 

[Angelsjunky]

First shot at it, as a place-holder (added players in bold, subtracted players in italics):

p.s. I skimmed over your rules on editing, so I reserve the right to fiddle with this over the next day or two as I posted this mostly as a place-holder. But I'll try to lock it in by tomorrow evening.

OPTION A: NO BAUER

DFA Robles, Ramirez; Bedrosian opts for free agency +$8M

Sign  Kevin Gausman 3$39M - $13M AAV

Sign Garret Richards 1/$8M 

Sign James McCann 2/$14M - $7M AAV

Sign Trevor May 2/$12M - $6M AAV

Trade Jaime Barria, Jordyn Adams, Jeremiah Jackson, Matt Thaiss and Jose Suarez for Joe Musgrove and Ricardo Rodriguez. Added $4M AAV (Musgrove)

Alternate: As above, but take out Barria and Rodriguez.

+$30M in free agency.

Rotation: Bundy, Musgrove, Gausman, Heaney, Canning, Ohtani; swingmen/depth starters Richards, Sandoval

Bullpen: Richards, Sandoval, Rodriguez, May, Mayers, Buttrey, Pena, Andriese, Reyes, Middleton

Catchers: Stassi, McCann

Infielders: Rendon, Fletcher, Rengifo, Barreto, Pujols, Walsh

Outfielders: Trout, Upton, Ward, Hermosillo/Marsh

 

OPTION B: "BAUER OR BUST"

Sign Trevor Bauer 5/$140 - $28M AAV

DFA Robles, Ramirez; Bedrosian opts for free agency +$8M

Sign Trevor May $2/$12M - $6M AAV

Sign Alex Avila 1/$3M 

Trade Jaime Barria, Jordyn Adams, Jeremiah Jackson, Matt Thaiss and Jose Suarez for Joe Musgrove and Ricardo Rodriguez. Added $4M AAV (Musgrove)

+$33M in free agency.

 

Rotation: Bauer, Bundy, Musgrove, Heaney, Canning, Ohtani; swingmen/depth starters Sandoval, Andriese

Bullpen: Rodriguez, May, Mayers, Buttrey, Pena, Andriese, Reyes, Middleton

Catchers: Stassi, Avila

Infielders: Rendon, Fletcher, Rengifo, Barreto, Pujols, Walsh

Outfielders: Trout, Upton, Ward, Hermosillo/Marsh

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Angelsjunky

[BTH]

1- Non-tender Justin Anderson, Matt Andriese, and Hansel Robles. (Amounts to roughly $6.5 million saved)

2- Acquire German Marquez ($7.8M) from COL in exchange for Jo Adell, Jose Suarez, Jahmai Jones, and Hector Yan. (Note: the values didn't match up for this trade, but I feel like Marquez's value may be inflated on the website. The Rockies are getting a consensus top 5 prospect in MLB heading into 2020, a potential back-end starter, and two top 10 Angels prospects.)

3- Sign Liam Hendriks- 3/$36M. (Structure is $10.5M/$12.5M/$13M)

4- Sign Trevor May- 2/$12M. (Structure is $5.5M/$6.5M)

5- Sign Jose Álvarez- 2/$10M. (Structure is $4.5M/$5.5M)

6- Acquire Joey Wendle ($1.6M) from TB in exchange for Keynan Middleton (-1M) and Jose Soriano.

7- Sign Kevin Pillar- 1/$5M

8- Sign Alex Avila- 1/$2.5M.

 

The total money spent is 37.5M, with 7.5M being saved through trading Middleton and non-tendering Anderson, Andriese, and Robles.

 

Avila/Walsh/Wendle/Fletcher/Rendon/Upton/Trout/Pillar/Ohtani

Stassi/Barreto/Ward/Pujols

Marquez/Bundy/Heaney/Canning/Barrria

Hendriks/May/Mayers/Peña/Alvarez/Buttrey/Ramirez/Sandoval

[Warfarin]

1.  Sign Bauer (4/100) - staggered/backloaded, so ~20mil first year

2.  DFA Robles (saves ~4mil)

3.   Sign Gausman (3/33) - staggered/backloaded, so ~9mil first year

4.  Sign Brad Hand (2/10)

Total added:  ~30mil of salary

Rotation:  Bauer, Bundy, Gausman, Heaney, Barria, Ohtani.  Canning starts off in AAA but makes many starts.  Beyond him, we have Suarez and Naughton as further SP depth.

Bullpen:  Hand, Mayers, Pena, Andriese, Buttrey, Sandoval, Ramirez, Middleton

Lineup:  Fletcher SS, Walsh 1B, Trout CF, Rendon 3B, Ohtani DH, Upton LF, Ward RF, Stassi C, Rengifo 2B

Bench:  Bemboom C, Pujols 1B, Barreto IF/OF, Thaiss IF/OF

 

Rotation is strong, bullpen is improved (Hand, Sandoval), lineup is the same as last year (which is good).

These estimates may seem low, but I suspect it's going to be a really rough winter for free agents.

[Vlad27Trout27]

Well first of, with Cam dfa, i would Dfa Robles and Andriese to save about an extra 10 mil. So, total expected salary is 138 mil now, and i'm going to say that Arte could spend anywhere between 30-40 mil, while keeping the payroll around 170 mil.

there's two ways i would go. 

1, Bauer ( 100 mil over 4 year): 16 mil, 27, 27, 30). Brings us a top of the rotation arm. i think a 100 mil over 5 years is good deal for both sides. 

2.  Hendriks 33 mil over 3 years: ( 9, 11,13)

The best closer on the market, closer also tend to be a risk, but i think he'll be fine for the few years and than the decline. 

or

Hands 16 mil over 2 years): 8,8.

Not in the Elte tier, but still a solid closer. 

3. La Stella (16 mil over 2 years): (6, 10). Provide balance to the line-up. Totally worth the price for a guy that's not going to strike out alot, and draw his walks.  

4. Richards ( 13 mil over 2 years): (5, 8 ). The stuff is there, slider is still wicked. I have him as a rebound candiate next year after returning back from TJ.

Total: 36 mil, filled mutiple spots, and added about 9.7 War (fangraphs) which i think is quite good for the 38 mil that was spent.

Plan B

First of all, i'm starting to fizzle out on stroman, i think he's a regression candiate. 

1. Gausman : 36 mil/ 3 years: 9, 11, 13. He changed his pitching philosphy the past 2 years and had become more of strike out pitcher. Still needs to develop his slider. But worth the price, at best we might have gotten a gem at worst we got a guy that about a 2 war guy

2. Richards (above)

3. La Stella (above)

4. Hendriks (above) 

5. Minor ( 4.5 mil): bring him in as a Bullpen arm, and a backup starter 

6. Avila (1 mil) 

Total: 34.5 for about 7 wars. 

 

[Angelsjunky]

Not to muddy the thread, but another question: Does the $30 million before or after arbitration? Can we release arb-eligible players to add to the total, like Warfarin did, or is that cheating?

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Not to muddy the thread, but another question: Does the $30 million before or after arbitration? Can we release arb-eligible players to add to the total, like Warfarin did, or is that cheating?

No arb decisions in that figure.

[Angels 1961]

Kluber, Archer and Richards get them cheap and sign Hand for 2 years 18 mill. Maybe Robbie Ray another cheap starter. 

[Warfarin]

25 minutes ago, totdprods said:

No arb decisions in that figure.

I think we have to factor in projected arbitration costs into the offseason plans, since that obviously very significantly impacts payroll.

Cot's contracts is by far the best resource in terms of luxury tax, projected arbitration, etc:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FsmsUpbOz2RsyxdPSM1oXHHuIE33NhIMEN-7bD0J9mg/edit#gid=1520401900

Using this, we have ~38.3mil of projected luxury tax space to work with.  Notably, Bedrosian is still listed there at 3mil, so the actual figure is now a bit north of 40mil.  DFA'ing Bedrosian (which we already did) and Robles (which seems likely) "saves" 7mil of costs in that regard, and that's an important consideration, IMO.

I do think we need to consider these costs as we create these plans.

[Revad]

I’d like to see the farm let alone if possible, so no trades here.
 

Plan A:

Bauer 4/100:  15/25/30/30- So 15

Smiley 2/17:  6/11-  So 6

Hand 3/24:  6/9/9- So 6

C. Hernandez  2/14:  5/9- so 5

DFA Robles, +4

Thats 28M, leaving 2M for left field or other options

 

Plan B

Gausman 3/38:  8/15/15- so 8

Smiley 2/17:  6.5/10.5- so 6.5

Hendricks 3/30:  7/11/12- so 7

C. Hernandez  2/14:  6/8- so 6

McCann 2/14:  5.5/8.5- so 5.5

DFA Robles, +4, leaving 1M for LF or bargains 

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Revad

[Warfarin]

20 hours ago, Warfarin said:

1.  Sign Bauer (4/100) - staggered/backloaded, so ~20mil first year

2.  DFA Robles (saves ~4mil)

3.   Sign Gausman (3/33) - staggered/backloaded, so ~9mil first year

4.  Sign Brad Hand (2/10)

Total added:  ~30mil of salary

Rotation:  Bauer, Bundy, Gausman, Heaney, Barria, Ohtani.  Canning starts off in AAA but makes many starts.  Beyond him, we have Suarez and Naughton as further SP depth.

Bullpen:  Hand, Mayers, Pena, Andriese, Buttrey, Sandoval, Ramirez, Middleton

Lineup:  Fletcher SS, Walsh 1B, Trout CF, Rendon 3B, Ohtani DH, Upton LF, Ward RF, Stassi C, Rengifo 2B

Bench:  Bemboom C, Pujols 1B, Barreto IF/OF, Thaiss IF/OF

 

Rotation is strong, bullpen is improved (Hand, Sandoval), lineup is the same as last year (which is good).

These estimates may seem low, but I suspect it's going to be a really rough winter for free agents.

Am I allowed to revise my prediction already?  

With Gausman getting the QO, we won't offer him a deal.  Almost guaranteed he accepts that QO, or instead signs a multi-year deal with SF.  Based on the early signs, relievers and 2B will be cheap, so I'd target those areas, while using our OF surplus to help bolster our SP.

So, instead, I will say:

1.  Sign Bauer (4/100) - staggered/backloaded, so ~20mil first year

2.  DFA Robles (saves ~4mil)

3.  Trade Jo Adell to CLE for Pleasac + Maton (RHRP)

4.  Sign Brad Hand (2/10) - 4mil first year

5.  Sign Blake Treinen (2/12) - 5mil first year

6.  Sign Cesar Hernandez (2/10) - 5mil first year

Total added:  ~30mil of salary

Rotation:  Bauer, Bundy, Pleasac, Heaney, Barria, Ohtani.  Canning starts off in AAA but makes many starts.  Beyond him, we have Suarez and Naughton as further SP depth.

Bullpen:  Hand, Treinen, Mayers, Pena, Andriese, Buttrey, Sandoval, Maton, Ramirez, Middleton, Reyes

Lineup:  Fletcher SS, Walsh 1B, Trout CF, Rendon 3B, Ohtani DH, Upton LF, Ward RF, Hernandez 2B, Stassi C.  Once Walsh is ready, then:  Fletcher SS, Walsh 1B, Trout CF, Rendon 3B, Ohtani DH, Upton LF, Marsh RF, Stassi C, Hernandez 2B.

Bench:  Bemboom C, Pujols 1B, Barreto IF/OF, Thaiss IF/OF

 

IMO, the rotation is strong, the bullpen is MUCH stronger, and the lineup should be strong enough to win a number of games for us.

[Second Base]

Get ready for insanity that borders on creativity. 

1. Cut ties with Bedrosian and Robles. Clears up 7 million. - 42 million left to spend. 

2. Trade Jo Adell to San Diego in return for Will Myers, taking on his whole salary (22 million), Adrian Morejon, Michael Baez and Ryan Weathers. - 20 million left to spend.

3. Trade Jaime Barria, Pat Sandoval, Jose Soriano, Jam Jones, and Jeremiah Jackson for Joe Musgrove. - 16 million left to spend.

4. Sign Garrett Richards 1/6. - 10 million left.

5. Sign Alex Avila 1/2. - 8 million left.

6. Sign Pedro Baez 2/10. - 3 million left.

7. Sign Matt Moore - 1/3. 

--------------------------------

Justification

1. Cost cutting. There will be a lot of it on MLB this winter.

2. The Padres clear the salary that they desperately need, while also getting a stud OF to build around and get to keep their two biggest guns on the farm in Gore and Patino. The Angels solve their pitching issues in one fell swoop and still maintain the OF depth they need with Marsh and Adams. Morejon and Baez go to the pen. Morejon may work his way back into the rotation at some point. Mid rotation starter potential while Baez is a clear bullpen arm capable of firing triple digits. Ryan Weathers is the upside arm they need and moved to AA/AAA immediately. Forms a future rotation tandem with Reid Detmers. Angels also competitive their offense with a middle of the order lefty to balance things out. If Myers 2020 production is sustainable, they have an option for him in 2022 as well. Myers reunites with Maddon as well, which is a nice story.

3. Going with the quantity over quality approach here. Barria steps into the back of Pittsburgh's rotation. Sandoval may as well if he's not in AAA. Soriano goes to AA, they can try to keep him as a starter, but with his stuff he's a future closer to dream on. Jam Jones goes to AAA and has a future there, with having a similar profile to Jon Villar, can be used in the infield or outfield. Jackson is the power hitting middle infielder you dream about. Goes to advanced A Ball. The Angels get Musgrove, who is a steady mid rotation starter they need. 

4. Richards will be baattling for a rotation spot. If he wins out, he has the mid rotation upside still. If he loses, that's still mid to upper 90's heat that can go multiple innings in the bullpen. Reunites with Trouty. 

5. Avila fits all the criteria I look for in a backup catcher. He's a decent defender, a clubhouse leader, has had offensive success before but at the very least gets on base, and has a history of guiding a good pitching staff. Avila will get lots of time at the start while Stassi heals up, and can also be used at 1B. Maddon has appropriately handled two good catchers before so they'd both get playing time.

6. Baez is that 7th inning option that is as steady as they come. Expect low 3's ERA and decent K's. Stays in So-Cal. 

7. Matt Moore was absolutely dominant in Japan this year. Would battle Garrett Richards for final spot in rotation. Reunites with Maddon, and makes good on all that potential after battling so many injuries. One year deal, if it doesn't work out, young enough to go back to Japan and make a career of it. If it does work out, he's in for a huge payday next year.

----------

1. SS Fletcher 2. RF Myers 3. CF Trout 4. 3B Rendon 5. DH Ohtani 6. LF Upton 7. 1B Walsh 8. C Stassi 9. 2B Barreto

BENCH: Avila, Rengifo, Ward, Pujols

Rotation: Ohtani, Bundy, Musgrove, Heaney, Canning and Moore.

Bullpen: Mayers, Baez, Richards, Morejon, Baez, Buttrey and Ramirez. 

AA/AAA - Naughton, Suarez, Detmers, Weathers and Rodriguez on the mound. Marsh, Adams, Rengifo and Thaiss at the plate. 

-----------

Best case scenario: That's a 90+ win team with a deep farm and lots of money to spend on 2022.

Worst care scenario: You'll have 70 million coming off the books at the end of the year and lots of young players to work with.

[totdprods]

22 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Not to muddy the thread, but another question: Does the $30 million before or after arbitration? Can we release arb-eligible players to add to the total, like Warfarin did, or is that cheating?

 

20 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I think we have to factor in projected arbitration costs into the offseason plans, since that obviously very significantly impacts payroll.

Cot's contracts is by far the best resource in terms of luxury tax, projected arbitration, etc:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FsmsUpbOz2RsyxdPSM1oXHHuIE33NhIMEN-7bD0J9mg/edit#gid=1520401900

Using this, we have ~38.3mil of projected luxury tax space to work with.  Notably, Bedrosian is still listed there at 3mil, so the actual figure is now a bit north of 40mil.  DFA'ing Bedrosian (which we already did) and Robles (which seems likely) "saves" 7mil of costs in that regard, and that's an important consideration, IMO.

I do think we need to consider these costs as we create these plans.

Offering a little more clarity here, I was out of town over the weekend and not as involved here...

So, last season it was much more clear what money was available, which way arbitration was likely to go, etc. and what money would be saved/spent through that process. Given the pandemic almost all of that is out the window this season. We have a really hard time knowing if the Angels will only add $10m, $20m, $30m, $40m, or if someone like Middleton or Noe at $1m is ‘too expensive’. We don’t even know how the shortened season will affect arbitration, hence MLBTR’s three separate models. While there might not be enough variance in those to really tilt the Angels payroll more than a mil or two, it adds to the weirdness of this winter. 
 

So, I sort of left it more open this year by design. When time comes to review, I’ll again weigh what was financially reasonable (skewing in the poster’s favor) and as mentioned above, if we find out a clearer idea of the Angels spending budget, I’ll bump to allow revisions then. 

[Yes We Can]

18 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Rotation:  Bauer, Bundy, Pleasac, Heaney, Barria, Ohtani.  Canning starts off in AAA but makes many starts.  Beyond him, we have Suarez and Naughton as further SP depth.

 

Man, adding Bauer and Plesac is an absolute dream scenario and would be a direct route to October baseball. I just don't think the Indians will trade Plesac. He still has 5 years of team control and IMO is a future ace. Guys like that don't go on the market, especially this year. I think Bauer is more likely but is still a stretch.

I think we have Bundy, Heaney, Ohtani and Canning. The Angels can compete if they land one top of the rotation SP and round out the rotation with Barria/Sandoval/Naughton.

[Vlad27Trout27]

If we're going to add 20+ mil in salaries, and trading players away. Why not just spend that on Bauer or Stroman. 

Personally i think your overpaying for Musgrove, plus i'd keep Barria and see what he can do for a full season. 

[angelsnationtalk]

12 hours ago, Second Base said:

Get ready for insanity that borders on creativity. 

1. Cut ties with Bedrosian and Robles. Clears up 7 million. - 42 million left to spend. 

2. Trade Jo Adell to San Diego in return for Will Myers, taking on his whole salary (22 million), Adrian Morejon, Michael Baez and Ryan Weathers. - 20 million left to spend.

3. Trade Jaime Barria, Pat Sandoval, Jose Soriano, Jam Jones, and Jeremiah Jackson for Joe Musgrove. - 16 million left to spend.

4. Sign Garrett Richards 1/6. - 10 million left.

5. Sign Alex Avila 1/2. - 8 million left.

6. Sign Pedro Baez 2/10. - 3 million left.

7. Sign Matt Moore - 1/3. 

--------------------------------

Justification

1. Cost cutting. There will be a lot of it on MLB this winter.

2. The Padres clear the salary that they desperately need, while also getting a stud OF to build around and get to keep their two biggest guns on the farm in Gore and Patino. The Angels solve their pitching issues in one fell swoop and still maintain the OF depth they need with Marsh and Adams. Morejon and Baez go to the pen. Morejon may work his way back into the rotation at some point. Mid rotation starter potential while Baez is a clear bullpen arm capable of firing triple digits. Ryan Weathers is the upside arm they need and moved to AA/AAA immediately. Forms a future rotation tandem with Reid Detmers. Angels also competitive their offense with a middle of the order lefty to balance things out. If Myers 2020 production is sustainable, they have an option for him in 2022 as well. Myers reunites with Maddon as well, which is a nice story.

3. Going with the quantity over quality approach here. Barria steps into the back of Pittsburgh's rotation. Sandoval may as well if he's not in AAA. Soriano goes to AA, they can try to keep him as a starter, but with his stuff he's a future closer to dream on. Jam Jones goes to AAA and has a future there, with having a similar profile to Jon Villar, can be used in the infield or outfield. Jackson is the power hitting middle infielder you dream about. Goes to advanced A Ball. The Angels get Musgrove, who is a steady mid rotation starter they need. 

4. Richards will be baattling for a rotation spot. If he wins out, he has the mid rotation upside still. If he loses, that's still mid to upper 90's heat that can go multiple innings in the bullpen. Reunites with Trouty. 

5. Avila fits all the criteria I look for in a backup catcher. He's a decent defender, a clubhouse leader, has had offensive success before but at the very least gets on base, and has a history of guiding a good pitching staff. Avila will get lots of time at the start while Stassi heals up, and can also be used at 1B. Maddon has appropriately handled two good catchers before so they'd both get playing time.

6. Baez is that 7th inning option that is as steady as they come. Expect low 3's ERA and decent K's. Stays in So-Cal. 

7. Matt Moore was absolutely dominant in Japan this year. Would battle Garrett Richards for final spot in rotation. Reunites with Maddon, and makes good on all that potential after battling so many injuries. One year deal, if it doesn't work out, young enough to go back to Japan and make a career of it. If it does work out, he's in for a huge payday next year.

----------

1. SS Fletcher 2. RF Myers 3. CF Trout 4. 3B Rendon 5. DH Ohtani 6. LF Upton 7. 1B Walsh 8. C Stassi 9. 2B Barreto

BENCH: Avila, Rengifo, Ward, Pujols

Rotation: Ohtani, Bundy, Musgrove, Heaney, Canning and Moore.

Bullpen: Mayers, Baez, Richards, Morejon, Baez, Buttrey and Ramirez. 

AA/AAA - Naughton, Suarez, Detmers, Weathers and Rodriguez on the mound. Marsh, Adams, Rengifo and Thaiss at the plate. 

-----------

Best case scenario: That's a 90+ win team with a deep farm and lots of money to spend on 2022.

Worst care scenario: You'll have 70 million coming off the books at the end of the year and lots of young players to work with.

ooooo riskayyyy. I like it and I don't. There's still not front arm in the rotation and the Musgrove trade is a bit steep. 
I like the idea of trading Adell, just want a better arm back.

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, angelsnationtalk said:

ooooo riskayyyy. I like it and I don't. There's still not front arm in the rotation and the Musgrove trade is a bit steep. 
I like the idea of trading Adell, just want a better arm back.

I think the need for a top of the rotation starter for the Angels is often oversimplified. They need good pitching. Whether that's top or middle or consistent at the bottom is up for fan discretion.

With the plan I wrote out, I wanted to leave room for growth, while also providing structure in the form of quality depth as a safety net. Musgrove in the middle really improves things. Either Moore or Richards on the back end is also a HUGE boon. 

And if Ohtani returns to form and Canning continues to progress the way he has, suddenly we have nearly an elite rotation.....if everything breaks right. That's what I meant when I said room for growth. You don't want to be so structured in team building that you don't allow for that kind of change. 

And if things don't break right, Ohtani is still hurt, ok fine, we have Richards, Canning's elbow acts up, ok we have Moore. Heaney has an extended dead-arm phase that he tends to go through, fine, we have Morejon, and Detmers, and Weathers and so on and so forth. There's more depth as a safety net than before, or at least the depth is of better quality.

I understand wanting more of a surefire top of the rotation starter in return for Adell. I searched and searched but couldn't find a single scenario in which an opposing team would've willingly gave up their ace for a prospect. So then I switched it up. I narrowed it to NL teams that aren't competing with the Angels as directly, that would be willing to trade the uncertainty of good pitching prospects for the uncertainty of a very good outfield prospect. The Padres came to mind. Insane pitching depth, more than I think I've ever seen. They need financial freedom and an outfielder. And this deal provides that. 

And I think it would be a mistake to underestimate Morejon, Baez and Weathers. Morejon is a young lefty that cruised through AA and sat in the mid to upper 90's as a starter and has clean mechanics. The Padres are so deep they use him in relief but he looks like a solid mid rotation starter to me, maybe better. Same with Weathers, except better velocity and first round hype, and bloodlines too. And Baez, not many pitchers have his height, extension and velocity. I think he's going to be Aroldis Chapman level unhittable in the future.

That would be a big "get" for Adell. Ideally, the Padres would get money to spend and an elite all-star OF for years to come and the Angels would get a good starting corner OF, two kids rotation starters and a closer. 

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Second Base

[Erstad Grit]

Trade Adell and others to AZ for Gallen 

Odorizzi 12 million 

Robbie Ray 9 million 

Rosenthal 7 million 

Shane Green 2 million

Kintzler 2 million 

 

[angelsnationtalk]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

I think the need for a top of the rotation starter for the Angels is often oversimplified. They need good pitching. Whether that's top or middle or consistent at the bottom is up for fan discretion.

With the plan I wrote out, I wanted to leave room for growth, while also providing structure in the form of quality depth as a safety net. Musgrove in the middle really improves things. Either Moore or Richards on the back end is also a HUGE boon. 

And if Ohtani returns to form and Canning continues to progress the way he has, suddenly we have nearly an elite rotation.....if everything breaks right. That's what I meant when I said room for growth. You don't want to be so structured in team building that you don't allow for that kind of change. 

And if things don't break right, Ohtani is still hurt, ok fine, we have Richards, Canning's elbow acts up, ok we have Moore. Heaney has an extended dead-arm phase that he tends to go through, fine, we have Morejon, and Detmers, and Weathers and so on and so forth. There's more depth as a safety net than before, or at least the depth is of better quality.

I understand wanting more of a surefire top of the rotation starter in return for Adell. I searched and searched but couldn't find a single scenario in which an opposing team would've willingly gave up their ace for a prospect. So then I switched it up. I narrowed it to NL teams that aren't competing with the Angels as directly, that would be willing to trade the uncertainty of good pitching prospects for the uncertainty of a very good outfield prospect. The Padres came to mind. Insane pitching depth, more than I think I've ever seen. They need financial freedom and an outfielder. And this deal provides that. 

And I think it would be a mistake to underestimate Morejon, Baez and Weathers. Morejon is a young lefty that cruised through AA and sat in the mid to upper 90's as a starter and has clean mechanics. The Padres are so deep they use him in relief but he looks like a solid mid rotation starter to me, maybe better. Same with Weathers, except better velocity and first round hype, and bloodlines too. And Baez, not many pitchers have his height, extension and velocity. I think he's going to be Aroldis Chapman level unhittable in the future.

That would be a big "get" for Adell. Ideally, the Padres would get money to spend and an elite all-star OF for years to come and the Angels would get a good starting corner OF, two kids rotation starters and a closer. 

 

I get what you're saying and I agree with most of it. 
I just view it as a top prospect swap for top prospect. To me, I would be okay with trading Adell for a top pitching prospect so we can still have that "room for growth". If they need financial freedom and an outfielder then Adell fits. I also think that us willing to take Myers' salary would perhaps have San Diego be willing to throw in a top arm. 

I just get worried with saying Richards and Moore would fill in for Ohtani and Canning if injury occurs. That seems like a thing our front office would say and it hasn't worked for a few years now.
Just looking at the past 4-5 World Series winning teams shows they've got about 2 aces. Sure, having a solid rotation of a bunch of #3 guys gets deep into games, but it won't win a World Series. 

[Warfarin]

4 hours ago, Yes We Can said:

Man, adding Bauer and Plesac is an absolute dream scenario and would be a direct route to October baseball. I just don't think the Indians will trade Plesac. He still has 5 years of team control and IMO is a future ace. Guys like that don't go on the market, especially this year. I think Bauer is more likely but is still a stretch.

I think we have Bundy, Heaney, Ohtani and Canning. The Angels can compete if they land one top of the rotation SP and round out the rotation with Barria/Sandoval/Naughton.

It's a dream, admittedly.  But CLE has a huge need for a stud young OF, and I think an Adell-for-Pleasac deal could potentially give both sides what they wanted.

It would hurt to trade Adell, who I am still very high on, but Pleasac is the type of young stud pitcher we need.  Again, I am a fan of trading from our organizational surplus (OF) to ameliorate our organizational weakness (SP).