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The Official 2020-2021 Hot Stove Offseason Thread


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12 hours ago, wopphil said:

Yes. Barria has demonstrated, in two different seasons, that he can be an effective starting pitcher (with a good health record). Sandoval may have more upside, but he hasn’t had any results and it’s unclear whether he will be able to succeed as a major leaguer. 

Sandoval shows great promise as a long innings guy.   Stamina seems to be one of the two issues along with blowing up in crucial spots.

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I think you meant to tag Arte Moreno. 

How I feel getting a post in before you

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2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

It would help to have a GM who scouted MLB well enough.

Eppler’s one huge fail was total inability to find even decent one year starters.  He and Dipoto failed miserably at it.

When was the last time we signed any FA pitcher that you could say was a good signing?  

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Just now, DMVol said:

When was the last time we signed any FA pitcher that you could say was a good signing?  

CJ Wilson wasn't as bad as many have re-written. Yet even that would be 2012. 

Joel Pineiro was OK, that was 2010

Paul Byrd was OK, 2005

Escobar was fantastic, 2004

Colon wasn't as good as most remember but won a cy young, 2004

So yeah not something we've been good at

 

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20 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

CJ Wilson wasn't as bad as many have re-written. Yet even that would be 2012. 

Joel Pineiro was OK, that was 2010

Paul Byrd was OK, 2005

Escobar was fantastic, 2004

Colon wasn't as good as most remember but won a cy young, 2004

So yeah not something we've been good at

 

Why is that?   Pretty poor record, if you ask me.

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2 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

CJ Wilson wasn't as bad as many have re-written. Yet even that would be 2012. 

Joel Pineiro was OK, that was 2010

Paul Byrd was OK, 2005

Escobar was fantastic, 2004

Colon wasn't as good as most remember but won a cy young, 2004

So yeah not something we've been good at

 

I thought about CJ....I guess you would say he was ok, barely....1 really good year on a 5 year deal (2013)....2012 was ok, 2014 wasn't very good, 15 was ok but shortened by injuries......nothing from his 5th year....

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19 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Why is that?   Pretty poor record, if you ask me.

I think in general, true top-tier pitchers rarely reach free agency in their prime - if you have an "Ace", you try to lock him down.

So, the few "can't miss" free agent pitchers are usually mad-expensive.  

And seems we chose to spend our money on such all-stars as Hamilton, GMJ, Wells, and Pujols. 😕

That left us with the more affordable 2nd and "3rd tier" reclamation projects - which haven't worked so well.

For the most part, you need to draft/develop your own pitching (or trade for it before their value is apparent - and not be the sucker on such trades) - position players are more easily obtainable as free agents. 

True aces are actually pretty rare in the sport - and not all of them were first rounders - many were buried in lower rounds - it's like a lottery - you more you draft, the more likely to hit on one.

So, you know, you can't give up those 1st round FA picks so easily, and you need to look at international FA's like NPB players (we ignored them for years), and sign every  pitcher with a pulse in the international market (again, we were non-factors for years - the signing period opens, what, Friday?  Will be interesting to see what we do there - if anything.)

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Great points, but the one thing that sticks with me is that it seems that when it comes to short term FA pitching contracts, the Halos have been about as bad over the past decade as anyone in MLB.

I hope Minasian has addressed the scouting end.   It’s been needing it for years.

I have no idea what would lead us to some of those decisions - was it scouting?  Or was it a GM who needed pitching so desperately that he just ignored or changed the scouting reports?  

I've always been an advocate of taking a retrospective analysis of draft decisions - to help answer why we made certain decisions, like drafting some head-case who washed out of Rookie ball over an MVP candidate - what went wrong?  What did we miss or misinterpret (if anything.) 

Should similarly take a hard look-back at what led to our crap free-agent signings, and find out where we went wrong.

Then fire any scout who said Joe Blanton could be an effective starter for us.  If necessary, hire him back, and fire him again 🙂

 

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if anyone sees the results of the Kluber showcase, please pop it in here.  🙂

 

Edit:
Nevermind, found em...

https://www.mlb.com/news/corey-kluber-impresses-in-showcase

 

more detail:
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-rumors-corey-kluber-draws-large-audience-for-showcase-padres-could-add-more-pitching/

Nearly 25 teams showed up at Corey Kluber's showcase today, and scouts came away impressed. His fastball sat 88-90 -- and he's got more velocity in the tank as he builds toward spring training. Kluber threw 30 pitches, including all of his off-speed stuff. Strong market expected.

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 13, 2021

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3 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Why is that?   Pretty poor record, if you ask me.

2005+ they were most successful with their in house arms.... Wash (05),  Lackey, Weaver, Saunders, Santana, Richards, Shoemaker.... they used in house assets and traded for Haren, Garland, Skaggs, Vargas, Heaney, Santiago.   Those were mostly successful moves.

Really its just been the one year guys that have been awful and those guys were mostly consolation prizes where they tried to capture some lightning in a bottle, (Harvey, Teheran).

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21 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

2005+ they were most successful with their in house arms.... Wash (05),  Lackey, Weaver, Saunders, Santana, Richards, Shoemaker.... they used in house assets and traded for Haren, Garland, Skaggs, Vargas, Heaney, Santiago.   Those were mostly successful moves.

Really its just been the one year guys that have been awful and those guys were mostly consolation prizes where they tried to capture some lightning in a bottle, (Harvey, Teheran).

excellent post

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6 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

88-90? I know it's early but that's not exactly encouraging. 

I guess I'll trust the scouts on this one. I'm sure the Angels were one of the teams that showed up.

The article i posted  noted that was about normal for this point in the off season so no one seemed to worried.
As @Inside Pitchnoted thats not far off his in season norm. 
Arm ought to be well rested 🙂

 

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8 hours ago, failos said:

image.jpeg

With regard to what @DMVol said originally, i guess you kind of have to qualify what "good signing" means.
Was the goal to win now, did they, then it was worth if that was the intent?  
We all know few if any end up worth the cost on the high side at least, how many of them have?  Scherzer, Verlander,   who else would you say without question was a good signing on the higher dollar side?

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39 minutes ago, floplag said:

With regard to what @DMVol said originally, i guess you kind of have to qualify what "good signing" means.
Was the goal to win now, did they, then it was worth if that was the intent?  
We all know few if any end up worth the cost on the high side at least, how many of them have?  Scherzer, Verlander,   who else would you say without question was a good signing on the higher dollar side?

Very good points....I guess what I’d like to see, at least sometime, is a Mike Minor or Lance Lynn (both Rangers) or maybe Jake Odorizzi type signings...mid level (2/3 years), good evaluation type deals.... I realize Eppler had some constraints and “good evaluation” is easier said than done but if you could offer Cole or Wheeler, you could have made a good 2/3 year signing without resorting to awful one year high risk guys like Harvey, Teheran or Cahill....

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2 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Very good points....I guess what I’d like to see, at least sometime, is a Mike Minor or Lance Lynn (both Rangers) or Jake Odorizzi (Twins) type signings...mid level (2/3 years), good evaluation type deals.... I realize Eppler had some constraints and “good evaluation” is easier said than done but if you could offer Cole or Wheeler, you could have made a good 2/3 year signing without resorting to awful one year high risk guys like Harvey, Teheran or Cahill....

I agree actually.  I guess my comment was more about the high dollar guys.

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