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The Official 2020-2021 Hot Stove Offseason Thread


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12 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

How are you all advocating trading SP for outfield help?

If the Angels adequately fill their needs, Barria/Sandoval would be on the outside of the rotation.

Depth is good, but Barria is out of options and Sandoval hasn't shown he can go multiple innings yet. So I think there would be a willingness to move either in the right deal, provided they add other starters.

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Awesome, he's 2 for 31 now.  The Brandon Wood of MLB Executive Burner accounts.

Is everything ok?

The idea of giving up assets for Lindor just to watch him leave after the season makes no sense to me.  If we were one player away then sure. But we are 3-5 pitchers away. 

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4 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

So you wouldn't give up Barria for him but you'd give up Sandoval?

well then GIF

To be honest, I'm with him. I'd keep Barria before I would keep Sandoval. Barria has had more success in both the minors and majors, he keeps his composure and when he spots his pitches, he can work deeper into games and eat innings. 

Sandoval clearly has better stuff but I don't think he sticks as a starter. I think both he and Jose Suarez end up in relief and Barria will carve out a role as a consistent 4th starter.

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4 hours ago, Dochalo said:

there's no way they're adding that much in payroll.  That's like 40m+.  not gonna happen

so yeah.  any combo of adding 40m in payroll for 2021 is better than adding 20m.  

Yep. Per Spotrac:
Realmuto: $23M
Odorizzi: $14M
Musgrove: $3.75M
$40.75M
Trade package for Musgrove: Adams, Jackson, Sandoval, Deveaux

Although, if he's assuming Bauer would be $35M then let's say this...
Bauer: $35M
Contreras: $6.2M
$41.2M
Trade package for Contreras: Adams, Sandoval, Martinez

Both options you lose a draft pick. 
first option:
-solidifies catching position for few years with incredible defense and solid bat
-invests payroll in 2 new arms with #2 potential***

second option:
-potential ace to rotation
-catcher for at least 2 years.

Financially, I'd go with option number 1. Angels will have much more depth with chance to win now and financial flexibility to plug in another pitcher in 2022. Thor, Ray, Gray to name a few younger options. 

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10 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

What do you like?  He's a physically maxed out OFer that has basically stagnated if not regressed IMO.. 

I was a fan of his going into the draft but he's looked spent at times since 2019.  Maybe he's a change of scenery guy but more and more he looks like a guy that benefited from funny baseballs, particularly given his mediocre results .vs fastballs.

Outside of the AL East my guess is he'd struggle to put up Kole Calhoun numbers.

 

Exactly. I've never been a Benintendi fan. I've always seen him as an average at best guy without one great standout tool.

Funny story. My old boss's niece went to college at Arkansas with him and he asked her out when he was playing for the team, she played for the softball team. She turned him down claiming he was too short and soft. I asked my boss if she is kicking herself after he got that contract with the Red Sox. Said nope! lol

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I didn't realize Benintendi was that miserable last year.  That's a huge risk.  

I get that he's only 26, but he's essentially a 2 WAR player for 6.6m and that likely goes up for 2022.  

Why give up an asset when you could sign a FA for about the same amount of money and get similar production?

not even sure it was funny baseballs as he's been struggling a decent amount since 2019.  

More like he's been figured out.  Looks like they're forcing him to pull the ball unless he's been trying to do it on purpose but it's not working.  

I'd rather spend on profar who can back up IF as well.  

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5 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Exactly. I've never been a Benintendi fan. I've always seen him as an average at best guy without one great standout tool.

Funny story. My old boss's niece went to college at Arkansas with him and he asked her out when he was playing for the team, she played for the softball team. She turned him down claiming he was too short and soft. I asked my boss if she is kicking herself after he got that contract with the Red Sox. Said nope! lol

She's lying.

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5 hours ago, Dochalo said:

there's no way they're adding that much in payroll.  That's like 40m+.  not gonna happen

so yeah.  any combo of adding 40m in payroll for 2021 is better than adding 20m.  

I agree it’s better than Bauer alone but Bauer is gonna get more than a 20M contract. So I’m assuming he meant Bauer and a catcher like Suzuki to make it equal. Then go for Barria as the 6th man. That’s about 25-32 for Bauer, Barria is at league minimum so he doesn’t count, and say 3-4M for Suzuki. So 35, 30 if they get a break on the first year, say 4/128 and it’s 26/28/32/34/8 buyout/36 option. So say maybe 30, 36 on the high end. 

Compare that to the other, I think Realmuto gets around 22M annually. 25 I think is a bit of a reach but that’s what MLBTR has him projected at so that’s what we’ll go with. Odorozzi is projected at 13 AAV and Musgrove is gonna get say 4.5. So that’s 42 plus a reliever, which is gonna be a guy on a contract like Claudio.
 

Thats 43-43.5 million.

You maybe could get Realmuto for 22 in year one and two , in their prescribed deal, then 25 and 28 and 28. Odorozzi you can maybe get for 10/13/16. So maybe you could squeeze it for 36 in 2021. But later it’s more $$$. 

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21 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I didn't realize Benintendi was that miserable last year.  That's a huge risk.  

I get that he's only 26, but he's essentially a 2 WAR player for 6.6m and that likely goes up for 2022.  

Why give up an asset when you could sign a FA for about the same amount of money and get similar production?

not even sure it was funny baseballs as he's been struggling a decent amount since 2019.  

More like he's been figured out.  Looks like they're forcing him to pull the ball unless he's been trying to do it on purpose but it's not working.  

I'd rather spend on profar who can back up IF as well.  

He was a hard read for me.  He was a puny guy his first year of college, he could hit but didn't really hit the ball hard, think Fletcher minus the ability to spray it all over.... Then bam! He starts torching balls and more than doubles his Slg% his sophomore season.  It was as dramatic a jump as anyone could make...

I dunno what happened but the ball hasn't been coming off the bat the same, it just kinda dies even when he hits the ball well.  He seemed aware it was happening in 2019, dude was swinging differently, not going to say he was cheating because he wasn't so much trying to catch up with balls as he was trying to generate power.  It was pretty obvious.

Watching him the last couple years its like the ball has come off the bat well then it just dies .... Almost like it hits a pocket of wind...  Just weird.

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22 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Exactly. I've never been a Benintendi fan. I've always seen him as an average at best guy without one great standout tool.

Funny story. My old boss's niece went to college at Arkansas with him and he asked her out when he was playing for the team, she played for the softball team. She turned him down claiming he was too short and soft. I asked my boss if she is kicking herself after he got that contract with the Red Sox. Said nope! lol

He was puny....  

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1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

So you wouldn't give up Barria for him but you'd give up Sandoval?

well then GIF

Yes. Barria has demonstrated, in two different seasons, that he can be an effective starting pitcher (with a good health record). Sandoval may have more upside, but he hasn’t had any results and it’s unclear whether he will be able to succeed as a major leaguer. 

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3 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Yep. Per Spotrac:
Realmuto: $23M
Odorizzi: $14M
Musgrove: $3.75M
$40.75M
Trade package for Musgrove: Adams, Jackson, Sandoval, Deveaux

Although, if he's assuming Bauer would be $35M then let's say this...
Bauer: $35M
Contreras: $6.2M
$41.2M
Trade package for Contreras: Adams, Sandoval, Martinez

Both options you lose a draft pick. 
first option:
-solidifies catching position for few years with incredible defense and solid bat
-invests payroll in 2 new arms with #2 potential***

second option:
-potential ace to rotation
-catcher for at least 2 years.

Financially, I'd go with option number 1. Angels will have much more depth with chance to win now and financial flexibility to plug in another pitcher in 2022. Thor, Ray, Gray to name a few younger options. 

If Bauer gets $35m per season then there are a lot of other options that are likely better.  

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4 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

He was a hard read for me.  He was a puny guy his first year of college, he could hit but didn't really hit the ball hard, think Fletcher minus the ability to spray it all over.... Then bam! He starts torching balls and more than doubles his Slg% his sophomore season.  It was as dramatic a jump as anyone could make...

I dunno what happened but the ball hasn't been coming off the bat the same, it just kinda dies even when he hits the ball well.  He seemed aware it was happening in 2019, dude was swinging differently, not going to say he was cheating because he wasn't so much trying to catch up with balls as he was trying to generate power.  It was pretty obvious.

Watching him the last couple years its like the ball has come off the bat well then it just dies .... Almost like it hits a pocket of wind...  Just weird.

I think boston is actually pretty tough on lefties that pull the ball which is why I think pitchers are trying to make him pull.  Because he has no pull power.  

He obviously changed his approach or was forced to by the way they are pitching him.  Or maybe it's because he hasn't adjusted to them pitching him differently.  But even in a small sample, he turned into a GB machine last year.  Not a recipe for success in the current environment where teams can predict with a fair amount of certainty where that grounder is gonna end up. 

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5 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I think boston is actually pretty tough on lefties that pull the ball which is why I think pitchers are trying to make him pull.  Because he has no pull power.  

He obviously changed his approach or was forced to by the way they are pitching him.  Or maybe it's because he hasn't adjusted to them pitching him differently.  But even in a small sample, he turned into a GB machine last year.  Not a recipe for success in the current environment where teams can predict with a fair amount of certainty where that grounder is gonna end up. 

You mean a left handed pitcher with arm attached?  Gosh what does that go for nowadays 

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5 minutes ago, eligrba said:

More likely 2-3.  I think we have a pretty good understanding of what 10 million dollar pitchers look like based on the past few years.

No, not really.  I liked Eppler but he chose the wrong $10 million pitchers. 

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33 minutes ago, eligrba said:

More likely 2-3.  I think we have a pretty good understanding of what 10 million dollar pitchers look like based on the past few years.

It would help to have a GM who scouted MLB well enough.

Eppler’s one huge fail was total inability to find even decent one year starters.  He and Dipoto failed miserably at it.

Edited by Angel Oracle
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