The Official 2020-2021 Hot Stove Offseason Thread

[Stradling]

Just now, beatlesrule said:

https://halohangout.com/2021/01/04/la-angels-david-fletcher-perfect-trade-winter/amp/

This guy thinks the angels should trade Fletcher and calls him average at everything. Then also states that he has a good WAR.

I read that.  I really like Fletcher, he has a good hit tool, he is great defensively wherever they put him.  I would absolutely trade him for a TOR arm.

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

https://halohangout.com/2021/01/04/la-angels-david-fletcher-perfect-trade-winter/amp/

This guy thinks the angels should trade Fletcher and calls him average at everything. Then also states that he has a good WAR.

Apparently he too only digs the long ball. I'm not sure there is a more ignorant assessment of Fletcher than "painfully average at everything". Basically the opposite of what he is. 

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

https://halohangout.com/2021/01/04/la-angels-david-fletcher-perfect-trade-winter/amp/

This guy thinks the angels should trade Fletcher and calls him average at everything. Then also states that he has a good WAR.

That sounds like people here.

"He's not that great but a MLB GM should trade a frontline starter for him."

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

If a leak is untrue, it probably comes from Jon Heyman, the virtue signaling turd bucket of a human being.

You keep using that phrase but I don't think you have any idea what it means. 

[beatlesrule]

5 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Apparently he too only digs the long ball. I'm not sure there is a more ignorant assessment of Fletcher than "painfully average at everything". Basically the opposite of what he is. 

Yeah I have never heard or read anyone state painfully average at everything when it comes to David Fletcher.

[Second Base]

51 minutes ago, Blarg said:

You keep using that phrase but I don't think you have any idea what it means. 

Let's find out.

the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.

---------

Jon Heyman, an ass-face, wearing a mask in his Twitter pic looks and sounds right to me. Looks like I got it right.

Unless he's wearing it to cover his stupid face, in which case, I get it.

[eligrba]

1 hour ago, beatlesrule said:

https://halohangout.com/2021/01/04/la-angels-david-fletcher-perfect-trade-winter/amp/

This guy thinks the angels should trade Fletcher and calls him average at everything. Then also states that he has a good WAR.

I wonder if the author watches baseball?

[Second Base]

Isn't average at everything essentially make you a decent ball player? I remember the same used to be said about Kole Calhoun.

I don't think you can say in the same breath that he's just average and then also claim he can be traded for an ace. 

For me, I like the options Fletcher gives the Angels. Decent leadoff hitter, but if the bat takes a step backwards, he's still fine at the bottom of the order. And he can play a decent corner outfield and shortstop, and a gold glove level 2B and 3B.

He should be worth 4 wins every year. By comparison, that makes Fletch every bit as valuable as Jo Adell and Brandon Marsh. 

[beatlesrule]

Going by rWAR, Fletcher has been worth more than Castillo since he has played 1 less year. 8.6 to Castillo 9.0 and I compare Castillo because the Reds would likely want Fletcher in any trade for him. I don't know how Minasian values rWar though in his trades. Is the team better with Rengifo at 2nd and Castillo on the mound or Fletcher at 2nd and signing a FA SP or trading for a SP not as good as Castillo?

[GoodTimesGoneBad]

Fletcher, Adell, and Sandoval for Castillo and Moose. 

[Junkballer]

1 hour ago, GoodTimesGoneBad said:

Fletcher, Adell, and Sandoval for Castillo and Moose. 

If it takes all that, Pass.  Fletcher OR Adell plus position prospect not named Marsh, Adams and a pitching prospect not named Detmers, CRod or Kochanowicz is reasonable.  Taking on the Moose contract, which the Angels would only do to reduce the prospect capital going the other way, makes Fletcher AND Adell a non-starter and desperation move.

[Stradling]

Correct, you shouldn’t have to include Fletcher and Adell and be stuck with a bad contract. 

[totdprods]

What about Castillo and Gray? Fletcher, Adell, Sandoval, maybe a lower-level SS/OF prospect added in?

Sign Wong for 2B, Suzuki for C, maybe a RP or RF with any money left over...

[GoodTimesGoneBad]

I love Fletcher but this would mean a frontline starter who isn’t making much for years to come. Moose is still a solid player and would be a good left handed bat to lengthen the lineup. Of course I think CIN throws in some cash but I think if you can get both for around $18M AAV (Moose’s contract is backloaded) you have to consider it. 
 

No one(besides the Cubs) makes a trade that doesn’t make sense for both sides. 

[wopphil]

6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

What about Castillo and Gray? Fletcher, Adell, Sandoval, maybe a lower-level SS/OF prospect added in?

Sign Wong for 2B, Suzuki for C, maybe a RP or RF with any money left over...

I would do that in a heartbeat. And I don’t think it is an outlandish proposal. Reds get a lot of value at low cost, Angels get a lot of pitching value at moderate cost (with cash left over to address other needs). 

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, GoodTimesGoneBad said:

I love Fletcher but this would mean a frontline starter who isn’t making much for years to come. Moose is still a solid player and would be a good left handed bat to lengthen the lineup. Of course I think CIN throws in some cash but I think if you can get both for around $18M AAV (Moose’s contract is backloaded) you have to consider it. 
 

No one(besides the Cubs) makes a trade that doesn’t make sense for both sides. 

I mean, even the Raisel Iglesias trade was sort of a head-scratcher. Cincinnati seemingly could/should have gotten more in that deal or from another team...so maybe there's hope we could 'fleece' them a bit.

[angelsnationtalk]

8 minutes ago, totdprods said:

What about Castillo and Gray? Fletcher, Adell, Sandoval, maybe a lower-level SS/OF prospect added in?

Sign Wong for 2B, Suzuki for C, maybe a RP or RF with any money left over...

I can't believe I'd say this (because I love Fletcher), but I think this might be worth taking a look at.....

Gray and Castillo will be about $15M combined. So definitely still some financial flexibility. 

[totdprods]

31 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I can't believe I'd say this (because I love Fletcher), but I think this might be worth taking a look at.....

Gray and Castillo will be about $15M combined. So definitely still some financial flexibility. 

A very unlikely name that could come up could also be Dylan Bundy. 

Not that I think the Angels would/should shop him, but as a pending FA who could be coming off a 'fluke' season, he's also a sell-high candidate. 

The Reds could see him as someone who could 1) give them some durable, potentially high-quality innings should they compete and/or 2) a guy to flip at deadline for more prospects if he is pitching like an ace or a QO candidate for a draft pick if they're really wanting to restock the farm. 

The Angels only motivation would be if they wanted to drop maybe a prospect from the deal, to trim a few mil to address other needs - C, RF, RP, perhaps a 3rd FA SP - and/or if they felt confident in the youngsters they kept to fill rotation spots. 

For instance, say they do deal Fletcher, Adell, Bundy, and now let's say maybe Barria or Suarez, they've cleared enough money to spend a little more on the aforementioned RF/2B/C/RP grouping. Maybe they go for Joc, maybe they go for one of the more higher paid relievers like Hand, Hendriks, or Bradley, maybe they opt to lock up Odorizzi so they have three vet SPs under contract for the next couple seasons, maybe they go all out for Realmuto and cheap elsewhere.

I believe if that deal above played out, factoring in what we've spent, projected arb. figures, non-tenders, and no other money involved in the deal, it would give the Angels around ~$20m of their speculated ~$30m to spend, with catcher, bullpen, RF, and/or a 3rd SP remaining as potential needs. 

They could try and work Moustakas/Castellanos in for a true blockbuster and eat up all that money...
They could try and add Realmuto and eat up all that money...
They could sign a trio of solid options for C (Suzuki), 2B (Wong), and RF platoon (Joc? JBJ?) with remaining money...
They could look to swing another deal - perhaps Pittsburgh for Musgrove, Stallings, and a cheap RP, and then use remaining money on very cheap FA bench depth they deplete if they lose guys like Rengifo or Thaiss....

Edited January 5, 2021 by totdprods

[angelsnationtalk]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

A very unlikely name that could come up could also be Dylan Bundy. 

Not that I think the Angels would/should shop him, but as a pending FA who could be coming off a 'fluke' season, he's also a sell-high candidate. 

The Reds could see him as someone who could 1) give them some durable, potentially high-quality innings should they compete and/or 2) a guy to flip at deadline for more prospects if he is pitching like an ace or a QO candidate for a draft pick if they're really wanting to restock the farm. 

The Angels only motivation would be if they wanted to drop maybe a prospect from the deal, to trim a few mil to address other needs - C, RF, RP, perhaps a 3rd FA SP - and/or if they felt confident in the youngsters they kept to fill rotation spots. 

For instance, say they do deal Fletcher, Adell, Bundy, and now let's say maybe Barria or Suarez, they've cleared enough money to spend a little more on the aforementioned RF/2B/C/RP grouping. Maybe they go for Joc, maybe they go for one of the more higher paid relievers like Hand, Hendriks, or Bradley, maybe they opt to lock up Odorizzi so they have three vet SPs under contract for the next couple seasons, maybe they go all out for Realmuto and cheap elsewhere.

This is the only time I actually wouldn't mind something like this. 

Yeah, we'd have to assume that one of Heaney/Bundy wouldn't return after 2021. Though I'd rather trade Heaney instead, but Bundy has more value. 

We'd finally get 2 top rotation guys.

A big thing to remember is if we go for Gray/Castillo then we look much better financially heading into 2022 especially with Pujols' contract off the books. Gray will be at $10M again and Castillo likely still under $10M. 
And no draft picks lost 

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

This is the only time I actually wouldn't mind something like this. 

Yeah, we'd have to assume that one of Heaney/Bundy wouldn't return after 2021. Though I'd rather trade Heaney instead, but Bundy has more value. 

We'd finally get 2 top rotation guys.

A big thing to remember is if we go for Gray/Castillo then we look much better financially heading into 2022 especially with Pujols' contract off the books. Gray will be at $10M again and Castillo likely still under $10M. 
And no draft picks lost 

Right. 

It's more about it simply being coincidence that Bundy 1) would typically be a pretty tradeable asset given his contract, his salary cost (both appealing for acquiring team and shedding money for Angels) and 2) his potential 'sell-high' status. 

But it's just that. Coincidence. 

If you somehow acquire two other impact SPs like Castillo and Gray, or Bauer, or whomever...the Angels could try to turn one year of Bundy at several million into someone with more years of control/less salary and redistribute that money saved for other needs, sort of like the Lance Lynn deal that netted Dane Dunning for the Rangers. It could be a savvy move made if it worked out that way. 

[wopphil]

Keep Bundy. It would say a lot about our rotation if he is our number 3. 

[Hubs]

15 hours ago, Stradling said:

He was pretty damn close to an Ace in his rookie season.  

Yeah, six great starts, two okay starts, two bad starts that year. 

[mmc]

Everyone here will be happy to know that in Passan's latest article, he confirms that the Angels have been connected to Sugano.

 

[GoodTimesGoneBad]

I agree with trading Bundy in a Lance Lynn type deal. 
 

In fact, let’s just try to replicate CIN’s SP rotation last year with Castillo, Gray, and Bauer. WS 2021 locked up. 

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, GoodTimesGoneBad said:

I agree with trading Bundy in a Lance Lynn type deal. 
 

In fact, let’s just try to replicate CIN’s SP rotation last year with Castillo, Gray, and Bauer. WS 2021 locked up. 

Problem is, not only do the Angels need to acquire two SPs at or above Bundy's level, they also need to find a team that would be willing to do a trade of a (at least) Top 100 SP prospect that's MLB-ready for Bundy. Perhaps a team that gets skunked in FA, such as Tampa, Toronto, Dodgers, or Twins.