The Official 2020-2021 Hot Stove Offseason Thread

[totdprods 8,378]

wouldn’t be surprised if German Marquez eventually hits the trade market too. And Jon Gray, Carlos Rodon, Michael Fulmer, and Matthew Boyd could be non-tenders. 

Could be lots of interesting arms available in coming weeks.

[Warfarin 1,965]

3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I think a lot of people, myself included, have realized that Adell is a prospect.  For the last couple years I wrongly had it in my head that he was going to be this sure fire elite player which isn't fair really.  Like a Fernando Tatis Jr or a Ron Acuna jr.  or some other jr.  (had to throw that in).  

He might be at some point but his brief stint in the majors this year makes me think that point is further off in the distance that I originally realized.  

So for me, it reset my expectations of him from some 'can't miss' guy back to just a really really good prospect.  Which is what he's always been

There's a difference between doing a 180 on someone vs. tempering expectations from being untouchable.  So now he becomes the most valuable piece in this org to help the team get where they need to be whether that's eventually on the field with the halos or with someone else.  

An unwillingness to trade him and thinking we can get a controlled top of the rotation starter without his inclusion is way more AW like than being realistic about the fact that it will likely take him and others to get that front line pitcher.  

So in some ways, we're actually growing.  

This is very well stated.  I have said, in my trade proposals, that my motivation to trade Adell isn't because I think less of what he can become, but rather, that I firmly believe that a medicare farm system like ours needs to trade its best chip from its greatest organizational strength (OF) to improve its greatest organizational weakness (SP).

We already have the game's best player in Trout, manning CF.  Marsh looks like he'll be, at worst, a solid everyday RF.  Adams is most definitely not a sure thing, but at least defensively, he looks incredibly legit in CF, and given he'll be ready in a few years, maybe that's the time Trout moves off CF and shifts over to LF, who knows.

Then, we look at our SP.  Who do we have under team control beyond this upcoming year?  Canning, Barria, Sandoval, Ohtani, Suarez in terms of those who have pitched in the MLB.  In terms of prospects, we have Detmers, CRod, Koch, and ..?  Sure, there are varying levels of potential in both groups, but I think i's rather fair to say that as of today, that group would be considered rather weak on the whole, especially in a sport where teams try to have tons of depth at the position.

It only makes sense, to me, that we use Adell to secure a long-term, cost-controlled solution at SP (such as Pleasac, Manning, Mize, May, Gonsolin, etc etc..), someone we can count on to be a core cog of our team for years to come - just as we would have expected Adell to be.

[Warfarin 1,965]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

BTW, Tampa Bay is really fricking smart.  

Indeed.  Tampa has limited financial resources, yet still somehow routinely competes with the Yankees and Red Sox.  They have a very good MLB team and baseball's best farm system, despite having a bottom 10 payroll.  If they are looking to trade Snell, I would be VERY leery of trading with them.  Friedman built that front office and left it in good hands.

[mmc 1,238]

 

[Capital_Dave 389]

4 minutes ago, mmc said:

 

Alex Anthopoulos is schooling his protege.  *This* is how you fill two empty slots in your pitching rotation.  (TBF, he caught Minasian from a standing start... still, time to get going if we want to snap up some pitching.)

[totdprods 8,378]

8 minutes ago, Capital_Dave said:

Alex Anthopoulos is schooling his protege.  *This* is how you fill two empty slots in your pitching rotation.  (TBF, he caught Minasian from a standing start... still, time to get going if we want to snap up some pitching.)

Morton was never going to sign here...he pretty much can pick and choose and write his own terms these days.

Edited November 24, 2020 by totdprods

[Capital_Dave 389]

What's funny is that the $15M he agreed to was precisely the option that the Rays just declined.  And the Rays were reported to be the runner up.  So they hoped to save a million or two and lost Morton...

[totdprods 8,378]

22 minutes ago, Capital_Dave said:

What's funny is that the $15M he agreed to was precisely the option that the Rays just declined.  And the Rays were reported to be the runner up.  So they hoped to save a million or two and lost Morton...

Which basically confirms and explains why they’re willing to listen on Snell. 
 

$$$

Also, I’d gladly take Kiermaier’s salary in a Snell deal. FWIW. Stick him in RF with Ward.

[Warfarin 1,965]

The Braves have a ton of pitching now and, of note, also have significant catching depth.

I'd be interested to see if Minasian can swing a deal with his former boss and try to grab some of that pitching and catching talent.

Wilson, Davidson, Muller in terms of pitching.  One of Contreras or Langeliers in terms of catching.  Could we swing a deal with them, using some of our young talent, to acquire their young talent?

[totdprods 8,378]

21 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

The Braves have a ton of pitching now and, of note, also have significant catching depth.

I'd be interested to see if Minasian can swing a deal with his former boss and try to grab some of that pitching and catching talent.

Wilson, Davidson, Muller in terms of pitching.  One of Contreras or Langeliers in terms of catching.  Could we swing a deal with them, using some of our young talent, to acquire their young talent?

The Braves had Brandon Marsh really high on their draft board, and he’s a Georgia boy...

[totdprods 8,378]

If I recall, one hallmark of the Braves FO in recent years is that they tended to move very quickly and decisively in the offseason to address needs, and we’re seeing it again now. Wonder if Minasian brings that mentality over. It would fit with Arte’s rumored it take or leave it FA approach. 

[Trendon 217]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

The Braves had Brandon Marsh really high on their draft board, and he’s a Georgia boy...

The Braves are already stacked in the OF for the future. In addition to Acuña, they have Pache and Waters.

[Trendon 217]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

If I recall, one hallmark of the Braves FO in recent years is that they tended to move very quickly and decisively in the offseason to address needs, and we’re seeing it again now. Wonder if Minasian brings that mentality over. It would fit with Arte’s rumored it take or leave it FA approach. 

I think we may see that in the future, but it'd be tough for him to do this offseason since he got such a late start.

[Erstad Grit 2,201]

6 minutes ago, Trendon said:

The Braves are already stacked in the OF for the future. In addition to Acuña, they have Pache and Waters.

They also lost Ozuna and the DH might stay. 

[totdprods 8,378]

13 minutes ago, Trendon said:

The Braves are already stacked in the OF for the future. In addition to Acuña, they have Pache and Waters.

What’s to say they don’t trade one of them for other help?

That’s like saying it’s a given we trade Adell, Marsh, or Adams.

If they like him enough, they can make a trade work.

[Trendon 217]

Within the article about the Rays trading Kiermaier, this was said: "Could the Rays find a taker for Kiermaier? According to two executives, that scenario would only be likely if Tampa Bay were willing to pay down his contract."

This seems to indicate that Kiermaier has negative trade value. (He's owed 11.67 in 2021 and 12.167 in 2022 with a 13M club option). One of the primary reasons the Rays want to trade Snell is because they want to offload money since they are cheap.

Could the Angels take on Kiermaier in a deal for Snell to lessen the prospect cost? Or perhaps even acquire Kiermaier with a prospect or pitcher from the Rays as a sweetner?

Before you write this off, consider that Mike Trout's likely going to move to a corner OF spot in a few years anyway. Would he move to a corner OF spot for the best defensive CF in baseball? Considering the team player he is, I'm sure Mike would do whatever he could to help the team. Perry Minasian said they want to improve their defense, and this would accomplish that. It would also open up an avenue to trade Marsh and/or Adell for a pitcher.

[SlappyUtilityMIF 2,011]

13 hours ago, totdprods said:

Measuring Joey Gallo’s value by looking only at his batting average is like measuring Shohei Ohtani’s value by the number of innings he has pitched. It tells way too small a story. 

1) Gallo is still really pretty young. He’ll only be 27 next year, same age as Fletcher. He was a very flawed player with a lot of holes when he first came up and his stats are weighted because of that.

2) He’s very good defensively, with pretty solid speed for a big guy, an amazing arm, and enough versatility to cover every outfield position and both infield corners.

3) Yes, he strikes out a lot, yes, his batting average is usually pretty bad. His walk rate is almost double the league average and slots in around that of Rendon and Trout. That doesn’t erase his flaws, but it softens their effect. And his power is legitimate. 

I don’t even think one could expect him to hit .250 on a regular basis - remember the league average is around .240 of late - but between his versatility, defense, walk rate, and power, he’s still probably a fairly safe bet for 3 WAR and a .220/.330/.530/.860 type guy for the next few seasons. If he was 30, I’d be much less optimistic. But by all accounts there was speculation he was so flawed he’d never make it in the majors and he’s worked his tail off to become a pretty valuable guy. At his age, I think he’d be a fantastic complimentary piece to look at acquiring. 

Gallo is interesting, if I was a GM in Colorado or Cincinnati I think he would be a consistent 40+ HR guy. I actually believe his #'s would be inline with .250 AVG and .370 OBP similar to his 2019 #'s. He doesn't have enough protection in the Rangers Lineup.

[tdawg87 32,030]

1 hour ago, Trendon said:

Within the article about the Rays trading Kiermaier, this was said: "Could the Rays find a taker for Kiermaier? According to two executives, that scenario would only be likely if Tampa Bay were willing to pay down his contract."

This seems to indicate that Kiermaier has negative trade value. (He's owed 11.67 in 2021 and 12.167 in 2022 with a 13M club option). One of the primary reasons the Rays want to trade Snell is because they want to offload money since they are cheap.

Could the Angels take on Kiermaier in a deal for Snell to lessen the prospect cost? Or perhaps even acquire Kiermaier with a prospect or pitcher from the Rays as a sweetner?

Before you write this off, consider that Mike Trout's likely going to move to a corner OF spot in a few years anyway. Would he move to a corner OF spot for the best defensive CF in baseball? Considering the team player he is, I'm sure Mike would do whatever he could to help the team. Perry Minasian said they want to improve their defense, and this would accomplish that. It would also open up an avenue to trade Marsh and/or Adell for a pitcher.

This is not a bad idea as long as it doesn't prevent us from getting another pitcher and a SS.

[angelsnationtalk 711]

4 hours ago, Trendon said:

Within the article about the Rays trading Kiermaier, this was said: "Could the Rays find a taker for Kiermaier? According to two executives, that scenario would only be likely if Tampa Bay were willing to pay down his contract."

This seems to indicate that Kiermaier has negative trade value. (He's owed 11.67 in 2021 and 12.167 in 2022 with a 13M club option). One of the primary reasons the Rays want to trade Snell is because they want to offload money since they are cheap.

Could the Angels take on Kiermaier in a deal for Snell to lessen the prospect cost? Or perhaps even acquire Kiermaier with a prospect or pitcher from the Rays as a sweetner?

Before you write this off, consider that Mike Trout's likely going to move to a corner OF spot in a few years anyway. Would he move to a corner OF spot for the best defensive CF in baseball? Considering the team player he is, I'm sure Mike would do whatever he could to help the team. Perry Minasian said they want to improve their defense, and this would accomplish that. It would also open up an avenue to trade Marsh and/or Adell for a pitcher.

If you mean not trading Adell or Marsh for Snell and Kiermaier then sure but if they are still being traded then forget Kiermaier. 

[ukyah 3,270]

13 hours ago, Capital_Dave said:

Alex Anthopoulos is schooling his protege.  *This* is how you fill two empty slots in your pitching rotation.  (TBF, he caught Minasian from a standing start... still, time to get going if we want to snap up some pitching.)

morton has been saying for a few years now that he only wants to play on the east coast. he was never signing here last year or this year. he's been great and he gets to say where he plays over the last remaining years of his career.

[Angel Oracle 13,204]

On 11/23/2020 at 4:32 PM, Warfarin said:

While I like Snell, I wouldn't trade Adell for him.  I'd trade Adell for someone who comes with 5+ years of control, and Snell only has 3.

This, and the same goes for Marsh and Adams.

[angelsnationtalk 711]

I agree with what some are saying for a trade in Lindor and McKenzie for Adell and others. If Heaney is included then the Angels would only take on roughly $13.7M. 

If there was a trade anywhere close to that then the Angels are still extremely flexible financially. It doesn't get us an Ace, but leaves us with a good prospect who might be MLB ready and the room to add another solid arm + outfield
Can still add:
Pederson 2yr/$18M
Tanaka 3yr/$39M

Bundy/Tanaka/Ohtani/Canning/McKenzie/Barria

Fletcher/Lindor/Trout/Rendon/Ohtani/Pederson/Upton/Walsh/Stassi

[Pancake Bear 2,012]

What is with the obsession people have with Lindor? In our current position, trading for Lindor would be the single dumbest move in the last decade. 

[beatlesrule 2,092]

https://www.mlb.com/amp/news/angels-offseason-starting-pitching-options.html

[Dochalo 25,068]

why would the Indians even remotely think about trading Plesac or McKenzie?  They're both pre-arb so they have a ton of control and are super cheap.  

I also don't see how Lindor makes any sense for this team.