The Official 2020-2021 Hot Stove Offseason Thread

[ukyah]

55 minutes ago, Trendon said:

While relievers are volatile, there are so many solid-good relievers on the free agent market that it would feel like a giant missed opportunity if the Angels don't add at least 1-2 more solid-good relievers.

The bullpen was just as much of an issue as the rotation last season, and there are tons of options available in free agency to upgrade/fix the bullpen who aren't going to cost a ton.

When we look at this offseason, there is only one top of the rotation starter on the free agent market but there are tons of solid-good relievers on the free agent market.

just going off memory, but i think the bullpen was worse than the rotation last year after a horrific start to the season.

[ukyah]

5 minutes ago, Fourts said:

I disagree.  Just compare the Angels starting rotation to other teams vying for the playoffs and see where they currently stand.  Pretty much all the Angel SPs have "hope" tied to them versus a good level of certainty.  That's a bad situation to be in.  Doesn't mean they can't avoid suckage in 2021 -- but's it's asking ALOT.

1. Bundy -- hoping that 2020 was his new norm and not a one-year aberration.
2. Heaney -- injuries and inconsistency are the norm
3. Quintana -- hoping he can regain what he had a couple years ago and that the limited 2020 inning doesn't impact him eating up innings in 2021
4. Canning -- still hasn't put it together yet and has injury issue.
5. Open spot: anyone we have on the roster right now taking this spot is simply hoping to keep the game close enough for the offense to win a few games.
6. Ohtani -- lol...it's 100% hope & praying with him SP-wise for 2021.

 If you you feel that's not one of the worst playoff contending starting pitching staffs....then you are more optimistic than Kimmy Schmidt.  I wish i was as optimistic as you my friend.

 

that's a valid opinion you have there.

[Angel Oracle]

1 minute ago, ukyah said:

just going off memory, but i think the bullpen was worse than the rotation last year after a horrific start to the season.

Speaking of which, is 2021 Buttrey’s last chance to show something?

Struggled the past two seasons, after looking fine the last two months of 2018 season.

[angelsnationtalk]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonywitrado/2021/01/22/the-los-angeles-angels-should-sign-trevor-bauer-no-matter-the-cost/?sh=1603b7291672

[Lou]

lol at "no matter the cost"

Pass.

[eligrba]

[Pancake Bear]

3 minutes ago, Lou said:

lol at "no matter the cost"

Pass.

Chances are much > than 50% he'll end up signing for less than his value.

[Erstad Grit]

45 minutes ago, Fourts said:

I disagree.  Just compare the Angels starting rotation to other teams vying for the playoffs and see where they currently stand.  Pretty much all the Angel SPs have "hope" tied to them versus a good level of certainty.  That's a bad situation to be in.  Doesn't mean they can't avoid suckage in 2021 -- but's it's asking ALOT.

1. Bundy -- hoping that 2020 was his new norm and not a one-year aberration.
2. Heaney -- injuries and inconsistency are the norm
3. Quintana -- hoping he can regain what he had a couple years ago and that the limited 2020 inning doesn't impact him eating up innings in 2021
4. Canning -- still hasn't put it together yet and has injury issue.
5. Open spot: anyone we have on the roster right now taking this spot is simply hoping to keep the game close enough for the offense to win a few games.
6. Ohtani -- lol...it's 100% hope & praying with him SP-wise for 2021.

 If you you feel that's not one of the worst playoff contending starting pitching staffs....then you are more optimistic than Kimmy Schmidt.  I wish i was as optimistic as you my friend.

 

You used the word hoping and injuries a lot 

[angelsnationtalk]

47 minutes ago, Fourts said:

I disagree.  Just compare the Angels starting rotation to other teams vying for the playoffs and see where they currently stand.  Pretty much all the Angel SPs have "hope" tied to them versus a good level of certainty.  That's a bad situation to be in.  Doesn't mean they can't avoid suckage in 2021 -- but's it's asking ALOT.

1. Bundy -- hoping that 2020 was his new norm and not a one-year aberration.
2. Heaney -- injuries and inconsistency are the norm
3. Quintana -- hoping he can regain what he had a couple years ago and that the limited 2020 inning doesn't impact him eating up innings in 2021
4. Canning -- still hasn't put it together yet and has injury issue.
5. Open spot: anyone we have on the roster right now taking this spot is simply hoping to keep the game close enough for the offense to win a few games.
6. Ohtani -- lol...it's 100% hope & praying with him SP-wise for 2021.

 If you you feel that's not one of the worst playoff contending starting pitching staffs....then you are more optimistic than Kimmy Schmidt.  I wish i was as optimistic as you my friend.

 

I agree. 

Good luck getting the rest of AW to agree though

[rafibomb]

1 hour ago, Fourts said:

I disagree.  Just compare the Angels starting rotation to other teams vying for the playoffs and see where they currently stand.  Pretty much all the Angel SPs have "hope" tied to them versus a good level of certainty.  That's a bad situation to be in.  Doesn't mean they can't avoid suckage in 2021 -- but's it's asking ALOT.

1. Bundy -- hoping that 2020 was his new norm and not a one-year aberration.
2. Heaney -- injuries and inconsistency are the norm
3. Quintana -- hoping he can regain what he had a couple years ago and that the limited 2020 inning doesn't impact him eating up innings in 2021
4. Canning -- still hasn't put it together yet and has injury issue.
5. Open spot: anyone we have on the roster right now taking this spot is simply hoping to keep the game close enough for the offense to win a few games.
6. Ohtani -- lol...it's 100% hope & praying with him SP-wise for 2021.

 If you you feel that's not one of the worst playoff contending starting pitching staffs....then you are more optimistic than Kimmy Schmidt.  I wish i was as optimistic as you my friend.

 

I disagree with Quintana. I don't think anyone is hoping he can regain what he had a couple of years ago. A lot of you are understimating just how valuable he would have been replicating his 2019 season stats for us this past year. 171 innings with a FIP of 3.8 and 3.4 WAR.

Edited January 26, 2021 by rafibomb

[Angels in 2030]

Even if Quintana replicates 2019, that's hardly enough to bring us into the big boys club.  Still, 2019 was 1.5 years ago for a guy who is now 32.  Pitchers don't typically continue their current path once they get into their 30's.  So there is definitely some uncertainty (maybe more than just some) on him. 

Not to mention, him being limited to 10 innings last year.  On one hand, he could have a fresh arm.  But it could also hinder his ability to throw 200 innings for 2021...and the left lat inflammation injury late last season could be the hint/start of an Angel-like 2021+ continuing injury issues.  Just saying...even with Quintana, there's uncertainty of what we're going to get out of him for 2021. 

[T.G.]

58 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Chances are much > than 50% he'll end up signing for less than his value.

Based on what?

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Fourts said:

Not to mention, him being limited to 10 innings last year.  On one hand, he could have a fresh arm.  But it could also hinder his ability to throw 200 innings for 2021...and the left lat inflammation injury late last season could be the hint/start of an Angel-like 2021+ continuing injury issues.  Just saying...even with Quintana, there's uncertainty of what we're going to get out of him for 2021. 

EVERYONE in MLB is going to likely suffer from innings shock at some point in 2021 because of the lack of innings in 2020.   Yes he had an issue besides the cut thumb, he pulled a muscle. A lat strain is just a muscle pull.  Its not like he had a rotator cuff issue or a teres tear or anything than can have a lingering impact.

Right now the Angels have the 7th best projected fWAR for pitchers in the AL using FG's depth charts.  I know a projection means shit until its realized but it's a world better than it has been in recent years.  Maybe more impoirtantly it's not like they are really overrating anyone, they have Bundy turning back into a pumpkin and Barria putting up an ERA over 5.25.  Overall they have the SPs combining for an ERA near 4.60.  They don't have a single SP putting up an ERA lower than 4.20 and they aren't projecting huge inning totals.  What part of that seems unrealistic?

What they need more than anything else (and havent been getting), is league average innings for the back end of the rotation.  They can't keep having two guys get blown out games by the second inning every time through the rotation and the pen shitting the bed due to overuse.

Bauer obviously is the best possible option and hopefully their goal but the data is arguing that even if he isnt, the starting pitching is better than some of you are making it out to be while still projecting it to be very much middle of the pack/mediocre.  When push comes to shove.... people aren't overrating them, its more a case of some of you guys being Eeyores.

[Erstad Grit]

Tanaka looking Japan bound

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/01/masahiro-tanaka-in-negotiations-to-return-to-rakuten-eagles.html

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, T.G. said:

Based on what?

Comparing to the going rate for pitchers based on his level of ability, past accomplishments (as reflective of said ability), and projections of future value.

[Pancake Bear]

6 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Tanaka looking Japan bound

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/01/masahiro-tanaka-in-negotiations-to-return-to-rakuten-eagles.html

Not a huge shock, tbh.

He was looking for a deal around 15-20m. If there were no other concerns, maybe he gets that, but he has elbow concerns (longstanding - been playing on half a UCL for several years now; no one wants to be holding that when the music stops) and hasn't really been substantially better than the guys getting one year deals around 10m right now.

[Angels 1961]

Chris Archer still out there?

[34red4]

3 hours ago, Fourts said:

I disagree.  Just compare the Angels starting rotation to other teams vying for the playoffs and see where they currently stand.  Pretty much all the Angel SPs have "hope" tied to them versus a good level of certainty.  That's a bad situation to be in.  Doesn't mean they can't avoid suckage in 2021 -- but's it's asking ALOT.

1. Bundy -- hoping that 2020 was his new norm and not a one-year aberration.
2. Heaney -- injuries and inconsistency are the norm
3. Quintana -- hoping he can regain what he had a couple years ago and that the limited 2020 inning doesn't impact him eating up innings in 2021
4. Canning -- still hasn't put it together yet and has injury issue.
5. Open spot: anyone we have on the roster right now taking this spot is simply hoping to keep the game close enough for the offense to win a few games.
6. Ohtani -- lol...it's 100% hope & praying with him SP-wise for 2021.

 If you you feel that's not one of the worst playoff contending starting pitching staffs....then you are more optimistic than Kimmy Schmidt.  I wish i was as optimistic as you my friend.

 

You’re claiming something is a fact and trying to back it up with subjective viewpoints.

The real fact, backed by data, is that the Angels rotation does not suck.

[Erstad Grit]

10 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Chris Archer still out there?

I think he's a great bounce back candidate and perhaps Maddon is an in? 

Still need at minimum Odorizzi but preferably Bauer

[Docwaukee]

I still don't understand the obsession with Odorizzi.  Quintana is a year older and has had a much better career.  

Odorizzi is a good pitcher but to think that he's really a significant upgrade like he'd slot in ahead of anyone we already have just doesn't make sense to me.  He was really good in 2019 and that's about it.  And even then he was babied and only pitched 159 innings.  

He's essentially Bundy, Heaney or Quintana at best. Even Canning has a really good shot of being better.   I don't see any reason to commit 3 years to this guy at 12-15 per.  He's just not that good.  

[Erstad Grit]

16 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I still don't understand the obsession with Odorizzi.  Quintana is a year older and has had a much better career.  

Odorizzi is a good pitcher but to think that he's really a significant upgrade like he'd slot in ahead of anyone we already have just doesn't make sense to me.  He was really good in 2019 and that's about it.  And even then he was babied and only pitched 159 innings.  

He's essentially Bundy, Heaney or Quintana at best. Even Canning has a really good shot of being better.   I don't see any reason to commit 3 years to this guy at 12-15 per.  He's just not that good.  

For starters 2019 was Odirizzi's best year while Quintana's worst. I'd prefer a SP trending in the right direction. 

[angelsnationtalk]

41 minutes ago, Jinzu said:

You’re claiming something is a fact and trying to back it up with subjective viewpoints.

The real fact, backed by data, is that the Angels rotation does not suck.

If by suck you mean below league average then you're right they don't suck. They're just.... average

Yes, Angels have the 7th best WAR for pitching in the AL but this is a best case scenario. Quintana will eat up innings, but there still are injury Qs that loom over a few of our guys' heads. Heaney usually always suffers a setback around the beginning of the season, Ohtani is a big ? and Canning might be a ticking time-bomb with UCL damage. 

Obviously we want them all to be healthy but it's the "what-if" that has haunted the Angels for a number of years now. 
The good news is the Angels are deep in rotation depth when it comes to slots 3-6. The question is what's the quality of that and can it work when playoffs come around?

We don't have a top 3 of Scherzer, Strasburg, and Corbin so making a deep run in the playoffs (with the current rotation) would mean having a strong bullpen/offense. Kind of how the Angels did it in 2002. 

On the other hand, the Angels lack a shutout bullpen as well. We have a strong offense (4th best WAR projection in AL), but we've seen over the years that offense alone can't win games.

Angels are in a very very tough spot. Trading prospects, particularly pitching prospects, won't do the Angels any good right now. They need all the depth they can get. 

[Second Base]

FRICK! Tanaka in lake stage negotiations to return to Japan. FART STICKS! 

Seriously. If they can't afford Bauer, the only two left in FA are Tanaka and Odorizzi. And if Tanaka is gone...

[Tank]

4 hours ago, Lou said:

lol at "no matter the cost"

Pass.

Maybe Arte can apply for PPP funds.

[angelsnationtalk]

1 minute ago, Second Base said:

FRICK! Tanaka in lake stage negotiations to return to Japan. FART STICKS! 

Seriously. If they can't afford Bauer, the only two left in FA are Tanaka and Odorizzi. And if Tanaka is gone...

If rumors are true that Mets and Blue Jays are going after Kris Bryant then I feel like the one who misses out might go after one of Odorizzi/Paxton/Ozuna. 

Could put the Angels in a strange spot if that happens. If it does, do they push for Bauer knowing he's all that's left? Or do they go for bats? hmmmm...