The Official 2020-2021 Hot Stove Offseason Thread

[Angel Oracle]

6 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

He's gonna be a big star after his appearance on The Ed Sullivan Show...

Followed by appearances on Merv Griffin, Arsenio Hall, and Letterman

[mmc]

 

[Angel Oracle]

Wondering if Minasian was also concerned with Hand’s velocity dip?

Edited January 25, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[tdawg87]

10.5 million. 

Tough to miss out on him, but I understand not paying that. Plus, we don't know if Hand even wanted to come here.

Assuming a tight budget, $10.5 million probably takes us out of getting another starter. 

Tough spot to be in.

[floplag]

10.5 is a little steep, more than i wanted to pay or expected him to get.  
Stop me if weve heard that one before though right....

[totdprods]

Could probably get a passable RF and another reliever for the amount Hand got. Probably better off spreading that around that banking it on one reliever with a velocity who’ll give you what, 70 innings, should we even get in a full season.

Edited January 25, 2021 by totdprods

[Stradling]

I’m surprised he got that much.  

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, Stradling said:

I’m surprised he got that much.  

My guess is that he is, too.

[tdawg87]

21 minutes ago, mmc said:

 

A "Hand deal" huh. 

[Second Base]

Anyone notice how pitching just keeps getting more and more expensive? It's like real estate, you keep thinking that bubble will pop and then the fixer upper down the street goes for twice you bought yours for. Or maybe that's just a localized thing where I live. Not an expert on that. 

I remember when the Corbin and Wheeler deals were reported, many fans thought, "Glad we didn't pay that, I can't believe he got that much!"

And now you look at those deals and think, "Not bad. I'd pay that."

Hand, Kluber, Smyly, Ray, Richards, and even Quintana are all getting about 4-5 million more than they likely should've. But pitching is at such a premium and the trade market prices haven't presented realistic alternatives (Darvish deal was good, but the price on Snell and Musgrove was eye opening). 

The only way to forego this situation is to develop it on your own, which is why Detmers, Rodriguez and Kochanowicz are all so vital. I love the athleticism from Eppler drafts, but pitching is so important, I think they may have been mistaken not taking arms early.

I doubt any of us would lose sleep on not having Thaiss (though I still think he'll be a decent major leaguer), and instead having Forrest Whitley. Or as much as this would hurt, not having Jordyn Adams but instead having Dakota Hudson or Shane McClanahan.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Second Base

[Second Base]

Actually, now that I think on it, Quintana was probably reasonably with 6-8 million. Getting him for 8 is in the high range but comparatively, really not bad. 

[Vlad27Trout27]

How about taking a shot at Shoemaker as a Bp arm? i think one or two inning roles may suit him and he may succeed with that Fastball/Split in short strings. 

[Warfarin]

The fact that Quintana got less guaranteed money than Hand is rather surprising to me.  Quintana has a rather established track record and is a good bet to pitch 150+ innings.  Hand, with diminishing velocity, will likely pitch at most 60 innings. 

Still think Minasian got pretty good value with Quintana.

[totdprods]

Worth considering that guys like Archer, Shoemaker, Aaron Sanchez, Carlos Rodon, Foltynewicz, even Felix Hernandez, Cole Hamels, Rich Hill, and Jake Arrieta are out there still, some perhaps resorting to minor league deals by time all is said and done.

I don’t see any of them as priorities or solutions, but there’s a chance one or two of those guys is a happy surprise waiting to happen. 

Ideally, we acquire another SP, another reliever or two, a RF of at least platoon quality, and perhaps snag an interesting vet SP invite guy who forces a kid to the pen or SLC to start the year. 

More and more I think Minasian is going to hold onto the prospects until he has a chance to see how they develop this year and he gets a chance to have his guys evaluate more closely. If he believes this team really is closer than recent records indicate, that’s a really pragmatic way to approach 2021.

[Second Base]

6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Worth considering that guys like Archer, Shoemaker, Aaron Sanchez, Carlos Rodon, Foltynewicz, even Felix Hernandez, Cole Hamels, Rich Hill, and Jake Arrieta are out there still, some perhaps resorting to minor league deals by time all is said and done.

I don’t see any of them as priorities or solutions, but there’s a chance one or two of those guys is a happy surprise waiting to happen. 

Ideally, we acquire another SP, another reliever or two, a RF of at least platoon quality, and perhaps snag an interesting vet SP invite guy who forces a kid to the pen or SLC to start the year. 

More and more I think Minasian is going to hold onto the prospects until he has a chance to see how they develop this year and he gets a chance to have his guys evaluate more closely. If he believes this team really is closer than recent records indicate, that’s a really pragmatic way to approach 2021.

It'll be interesting to see who among that group gets a major league deal and who settles for a minor league pact with a ST invite. 

Given the sky high prices for pitching, it wouldn't surprise me at all if one of them secured 1/5. 

[Warfarin]

14 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Worth considering that guys like Archer, Shoemaker, Aaron Sanchez, Carlos Rodon, Foltynewicz, even Felix Hernandez, Cole Hamels, Rich Hill, and Jake Arrieta are out there still, some perhaps resorting to minor league deals by time all is said and done.

I don’t see any of them as priorities or solutions, but there’s a chance one or two of those guys is a happy surprise waiting to happen. 

Ideally, we acquire another SP, another reliever or two, a RF of at least platoon quality, and perhaps snag an interesting vet SP invite guy who forces a kid to the pen or SLC to start the year. 

More and more I think Minasian is going to hold onto the prospects until he has a chance to see how they develop this year and he gets a chance to have his guys evaluate more closely. If he believes this team really is closer than recent records indicate, that’s a really pragmatic way to approach 2021.

Ideally, I'd like a bit of a higher-upside SP, then just wait to sign a reclamation-type SP option later to a minor league deal.  

I think we can probably just sign a couple of relief flyer-type options and hopefully someone emerges.  Look at previous years - Robles came out of nowhere, dominated, then fell off the map.  Mayers was more of an afterthought, and instead he turns in one of the best seasons of a reliever last year.  Relievers are highly volatile, but as we've seen so many times, they tend to emerge out of nowhere - Minasian just has to cast a wide-net and hopefully one emerges.  He already made a significant move to acquire a closer, and another good move to secure a LHRP.  

As for the platoon-quality RF - I still like Joc Pederson, but he'll likely be too expensive.  Maybe that option ends up being Schebler - who knows.

[jsnpritchett]

7 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I

As for the platoon-quality RF - I still like Joc Pederson, but he'll likely be too expensive.  Maybe that option ends up being Schebler - who knows.

Schebler's just a guy.  Nothing special at all.  Weak on defense, doesn't really have great platoon splits, was so bad in 2019 that he spent most of the year in the minors (where he also sucked), and was only able to get 1 AB in the majors last year before the Braves DFA'ed him (and he went unclaimed). 

[Stradling]

I would be happy with signing one of the best remaining, whether it is Bauer or Odorizzi then take a flyer out on one of those veterans and then trading a guy like Barria to a team for their young 4th outfielder or a bullpen arm with options.  Barria without options, chillin in the pen and not stretched out to start games, seems pretty useless to me.  Or at the very least not using him at his full potential.  I would start him every 5th or 6th day, but if he can bring back any value then that would be the way to do it.

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

Schebler's just a guy.  Nothing special at all.  Weak on defense, doesn't really have great platoon splits, was so bad in 2019 that he spent most of the year in the minors (where he also sucked), and was only able to get 1 AB in the majors last year before the Braves DFA'ed him (and he went unclaimed). 

Right, he's just a guy, nothing special.  But maybe if he can be replacement-level or slightly above, then that would work decently in a platoon.  Combine him with Ward and that should buy time for Adell and Marsh to properly develop.

Likely it depends on our overall budget and what we spend on SP.  Not sure how much will be leftover for a LHH RF.

[Warfarin]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I would be happy with signing one of the best remaining, whether it is Bauer or Odorizzi then take a flyer out on one of those veterans and then trading a guy like Barria to a team for their young 4th outfielder or a bullpen arm with options.  Barria without options, chillin in the pen and not stretched out to start games, seems pretty useless to me.  Or at the very least not using him at his full potential.  I would start him every 5th or 6th day, but if he can bring back any value then that would be the way to do it.

I've mentioned this in other threads, but even if we sign another SP, the odds that all of our SPs emerge from spring training healthy is very slim.  After all, we are the Angels - we will be lucky if 2+ aren't out, lol.

But seriously, I don't worry too much about trying to accommodate all of our possible SPs.  Someone is bound to be on the IL at all times, or close to it, I imagine.

[jsnpritchett]

3 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Right, he's just a guy, nothing special.  But maybe if he can be replacement-level or slightly above, then that would work decently in a platoon.  Combine him with Ward and that should buy time for Adell and Marsh to properly develop.

Likely it depends on our overall budget and what we spend on SP.  Not sure how much will be leftover for a LHH RF.

Sure, I know it'll come down to budget--but all I've got to say is that a Schebler/Ward platoon in RF is cringe-worthy to me, even just as a placeholder.  I'd rather just give Adell another shot, or take a chance on Marsh.

[Angelsfan1984]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I would be happy with signing one of the best remaining, whether it is Bauer or Odorizzi then take a flyer out on one of those veterans and then trading a guy like Barria to a team for their young 4th outfielder or a bullpen arm with options.  Barria without options, chillin in the pen and not stretched out to start games, seems pretty useless to me.  Or at the very least not using him at his full potential.  I would start him every 5th or 6th day, but if he can bring back any value then that would be the way to do it.

I’m all for that as well. Barria should fetch a decent bridge option in the OF until marsh/adell are ready. Other option is packaging him with adell or marsh in a return for a frontline controlled starter and then signing someone like jbj. 

[Second Base]

Schebler simply isn't an option for the roster. Think about it gents, who plays CF if Trout needs a day off? Ward and Upton certainly can't. Ward has never played there before and Upton is a statue. 

The next outfielder the Angels acquire is going to have the ability to play CF, and will need to have a bat proven enough to man LF and RF because it's no guarantee that Upton or Ward actually hit. 

There really aren't many options that fit that criteria in free agency, outside of Brian Goodwin and Joc Pederson. Goodwin probably runs you 1/3, Joc maybe 1/7. Really it comes down to the Angels budget. They probably only have 8 million left to spend before reaching that magic 30 million number that was thrown about (by fans) early on. 

I still think the likeliest option is some kind of unexpected trade. Something like Thaiss or Rengifo and a lower level of like Aquino for Ender Inciarte +15 million. 

[gotbeer]

Spotrac has Hands value at $8.4 million.  So $10.5 million is quite a bit of a premium.  Although, sportac also said his market value was for a 2 year, $16.8 contract.  

My thoughts are, there might have been a bidding war for Hand, and a premium was needed to land him.  

[Angelsjunky]

At most I see the Angels either signing a cheap outfielder or trading a spare part for a defense-first guy. They’re going to want to give Marsh and/or Adell a chance by mid-summer, and I don’t see them spending more than a million or two on a placeholder.