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The Official 2020-2021 Hot Stove Offseason Thread


rafibomb

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28 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Agree as well.  While people say "we can't add another SP because our rotation is full" .. consider that the likelihood that all of our SP options will be healthy by the end of spring training are somewhere between nil and nada.

Someone is bound to be hurt, whether it's a nagging injury that puts them behind in spring training or something more serious than that.  It's just the nature of things.  So signing another SP, or trading for one, likely doesn't create much of an issue.  And, if the "worst case" scenario occurs and they're all healthy (yeah, that sounds odd, calling that a "worst case" scenario), then Barria simply moves to the pen.

This is the Angels we're talking about here. If only one pitcher is hurt, that would be otherworldly successful. It's a script we've already seen play out. 

Worst case, and judging by the last couple years, most realistic: Andrew Heaney is going to deal with deadarm that lasts for 3 weeks in April. Canning's elbow will act up in March and he'll need six weeks for everything to calm down, and will return shortly before Memorial Day. Shohei Ohtani will lose command of his pitches and suddenly experience a significant velo drop in the second inning of a Spring Training start, and shift into a DH role. 

If that happens, Barria, Sandoval, Naughton, Detmers, and Rodriguez should find plenty of opportunity at some point in 2021. 

But that paints a darker picture than is reality. Some good will come of it. Bundy still continue to pitch like a front end arm, Quintana will be unspectacular, yet efficient. Barria will emerge as a solid 4th starter, and Sandoval will be decent for 3 innings at a time, which should lead to a successful run in the bullpen. 

Edited by Second Base
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1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Agree as well.  While people say "we can't add another SP because our rotation is full" .. consider that the likelihood that all of our SP options will be healthy by the end of spring training are somewhere between nil and nada.

Someone is bound to be hurt, whether it's a nagging injury that puts them behind in spring training or something more serious than that.  It's just the nature of things.  So signing another SP, or trading for one, likely doesn't create much of an issue.  And, if the "worst case" scenario occurs and they're all healthy (yeah, that sounds odd, calling that a "worst case" scenario), then Barria simply moves to the pen.

You can't just add an extra couple of pitchers because "someone will probably be injured". No one does that. What they do is build up depth. 

Barria and Sandoval are depth. Canning is not. Heaney is not. Bundy is not. Quintana is not. Ohtani is not. 

They'll get one more and that will be it. 

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Thinking on other names who might be flying under the trade radar...could see guys like Marco Gonzales, Justus Sheffield, Sean Newcomb, Sean Manaea, Danny Duffy, Josh Lindblom, Dakota Hudson, any Marlins pitcher, aforementioned Zac Gallen...all sorts of under the radar types out there...

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43 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Thinking on other names who might be flying under the trade radar...could see guys like Marco Gonzales, Justus Sheffield, Sean Newcomb, Sean Manaea, Danny Duffy, Josh Lindblom, Dakota Hudson, any Marlins pitcher, aforementioned Zac Gallen...all sorts of under the radar types out there...

Dipoto ain't trading with the Angels. Oakland isn't trading a starter to the Angels. Duffy's too expensive, contract wise. Hudson had TJ in late September. Not sure the Marlins will want to deal their pitchers and I doubt Arizona wants to deal Gallen.

The only plausible names left from that list would be Newcomb and Lindblom, with Newcomb being likelier than Lindblom, who is mayyybbbbe average at best.

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If Angels fans were frustrated with CJ Wilson nibbling at the corners, they'd absolutely hate Sean Newcomb. He throws a hard, heavy fastball, great breaking ball and a very interested changeup. Yet he'd reach 100 pitches in the 4th or 5th inning in many starts. 

The final numbers wouldn't be bad at all. But the journey to get those would be arduous and frustrating. And just not make it a fun game to watch. Every batter goes 3-2 it seems, and suddenly you're three hours invested into the game and it's only the 7th inning.

I'm not opposed to Nuke. I liked him as a prospect and think he's underrated as a professional. You just need to know what you're getting.

 

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8 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

You can't just add an extra couple of pitchers because "someone will probably be injured". No one does that. What they do is build up depth. 

Barria and Sandoval are depth. Canning is not. Heaney is not. Bundy is not. Quintana is not. Ohtani is not. 

They'll get one more and that will be it. 

Well, I'm not advocating to go out and sign 3 more SPs.  I'm just saying one more, and again, the worst outcome of that is everyone is healthy, Barria goes to the pen, and Sandoval to AAA.  One key distinction I'll make though is that Barria is not ideal depth, because to me, that would be someone who can be optioned, which Barria cannot be.  If he's in the pen for a chunk of time, he probably no longer is a candidate for a spot start because he'll no longer be stretched out (and hence, not ideal).

But that aside, I absolutely agree with you about depth.  That's where drafting and developing comes into play.  If you look at the successful teams, they tend to have good pitching prospects in AAA/AA that they shuttle back and forth, depending on team needs.  We saw the Dodgers do that with Tony Gonsolin last year - he was a really good SP, but they just couldn't accommodate him in their rotation, so he spent the majority of his time in AAA, with some starts in the MLB.

In an ideal world, we can re-create that same level of depth.  Maybe by year's end, Detmers will be in AAA and ready for a start or two.  Sandoval and Suarez should both be in AAA, and hopefully they can work on their craft and be viable depth options too.

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9 hours ago, Second Base said:

This is the Angels we're talking about here. If only one pitcher is hurt, that would be otherworldly successful. It's a script we've already seen play out. 

Worst case, and judging by the last couple years, most realistic: Andrew Heaney is going to deal with deadarm that lasts for 3 weeks in April. Canning's elbow will act up in March and he'll need six weeks for everything to calm down, and will return shortly before Memorial Day. Shohei Ohtani will lose command of his pitches and suddenly experience a significant velo drop in the second inning of a Spring Training start, and shift into a DH role. 

If that happens, Barria, Sandoval, Naughton, Detmers, and Rodriguez should find plenty of opportunity at some point in 2021. 

But that paints a darker picture than is reality. Some good will come of it. Bundy still continue to pitch like a front end arm, Quintana will be unspectacular, yet efficient. Barria will emerge as a solid 4th starter, and Sandoval will be decent for 3 innings at a time, which should lead to a successful run in the bullpen. 

Lol, yeah man.  We should have an over/under odds, with how many Angels SPs need TJ surgery by the end of spring training - 1.5.

But it's still the offseason, so I'll choose to be optimistic for now instead of thinking about that, haha.

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2 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Lol, yeah man.  We should have an over/under odds, with how many Angels SPs need TJ surgery by the end of spring training - 1.5.

But it's still the offseason, so I'll choose to be optimistic for now instead of thinking about that, haha.

We've also had two active SP die

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11 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

You can't just add an extra couple of pitchers because "someone will probably be injured". No one does that. What they do is build up depth. 

Barria and Sandoval are depth. Canning is not. Heaney is not. Bundy is not. Quintana is not. Ohtani is not. 

They'll get one more and that will be it. 

 

2 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Well, I'm not advocating to go out and sign 3 more SPs.  I'm just saying one more, and again, the worst outcome of that is everyone is healthy, Barria goes to the pen, and Sandoval to AAA.  One key distinction I'll make though is that Barria is not ideal depth, because to me, that would be someone who can be optioned, which Barria cannot be.  If he's in the pen for a chunk of time, he probably no longer is a candidate for a spot start because he'll no longer be stretched out (and hence, not ideal).

But that aside, I absolutely agree with you about depth.  That's where drafting and developing comes into play.  If you look at the successful teams, they tend to have good pitching prospects in AAA/AA that they shuttle back and forth, depending on team needs.  We saw the Dodgers do that with Tony Gonsolin last year - he was a really good SP, but they just couldn't accommodate him in their rotation, so he spent the majority of his time in AAA, with some starts in the MLB.

In an ideal world, we can re-create that same level of depth.  Maybe by year's end, Detmers will be in AAA and ready for a start or two.  Sandoval and Suarez should both be in AAA, and hopefully they can work on their craft and be viable depth options too.

Both of you under estimate Barria.  He is only 24 and recovering from Doug White.  He played in the Dominican Winter League and was the starting pitcher in 5 games. In the 19 innings pitched he had 0 walks and 16 strikeouts with a WHIP of 1.26.  I predict he will be a contributor this season in whatever manner the Angels use him.....but I would expect him to be a starting pitcher.

 

Edited by eligrba
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1 hour ago, eligrba said:

 

Both of you under estimate Barria.  He is only 24 and recovering from Doug White.  He played in the Dominican Winter League and was the starting pitcher in 5 games. In the 19 innings pitched he had 0 walks and 16 strikeouts with a WHIP of 1.26.  I predict he will be a contributor this season in whatever manner the Angels use him.....but I would expect him to be a starting pitcher.

 

Sure - he could be pretty decent, but again, the key thing is we need depth.  I think Barria can be a solid SP4/SP5 type.  But that said, I would rather gamble on having too much pitching than not enough.  Minasian states he is very active in the SP market, so I do fully expect to see one more starter added before the offseason concludes.

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Barria will get his starts even if the Halos add another starter.  Even if your top three guys make 30 starts each, there's still 70 games to cover and right now there's theoretically about 3 (4 if we add another starter) to gobble those up.  One of whom is Ohtani.  So I think the halos are absolutely intent on Barria being a significant part of the rotation at some point in 2021.  Regardless of whether they add another starter.  

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