Is Mookie Betts the best player in baseball?

[Docwaukee]

Trout had a weird season btw.  Didn't really normalize till sept/oct after he had his kid and started getting some sleep (probably).  

he also had reverse splits vs. lefties big time which is tough to explain.  

and, as some have mentioned, his defense was ok at best.  

[Angelsjunky]

Yeah, it was a bit off, or at least anomalous in a variety of ways:

He barely walked for the first few weeks.

He struck out the most and walked the least since 2015.

He continued with his low BABIP from 2019.

He only stole one base.

His launch angle continued to rise, to 23.1

His Hard Hit % spiked to 55.1, coupled with a career high exit velocity of 93.7.

All that said, he did play only one-third of a season, and pretty much anything can happen during that span of time. Look at 2019's best NL players, Yelich (.205/.356/.430, 112 wRC+, 0.7 WAR) and Bellinger (.239/.333/.455, 114 wRC+, 1.2 WAR).

I expect him to be back to normal next year, with the usual minor worries about his defense and launch angle. He's going to be refreshed, focused, and enjoy not changing diapers on road trips.

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I can already hear the groans and angst, but hear me out - it is at least worth considering. Inspired by Mookie's remarkable play tonight, I thought I'd investigate more closely.

Consider Betts and Trout's fWAR, in ranges from 2015 (Mookie's first full season) through 2020:

2015-20: Trout 46.8, Betts 38.4 +8.4 Trout, or +1.4 per season

2016-20: Trout 37.5, Betts 33.6 +3.9 Trout, or +0.8 per season

2017-20: Trout 27.8, Betts 25.4 +2.4 Trout, or +0.6 per season

2018-20: Trout 21.0, Betts 20.0 +1.0 Trout, or +0.3 per season

2019-20: Trout 11.2, Betts 9.6 +1.6 Trout, or +0.8 per season

2020: Betts 3.0, Trout 2.6 +0.4 Betts

The first thing to note is that the gap between them narrowed, with Trout only having a slight edge over the last three seasons. But then it widened again as Betts dropped a bit in 2019.

The Verdict: Trout is still the best player in baseball, although it is close - and seemingly getting closer. Even though Betts was slightly better in 2020, I don't think we can call him better than Trout...yet. The season was only 60 games, after all. But the gap has narrowed to the point that going forward, it might be very close over the next year or two.

Addendum: In every span except for 2019-20 and 2020, Trout and Betts were 1-2. In 2019-20 it is Trout and Rendon, with Betts 3rd. And of course in 2020, Betts was 3rd and Trout 8th.

I would also mention that, going forward, Trout and Betts will have competition from players like Bellinger, Yelich, Tatis, Acuna and Soto. 

Betts is better only in 2020 a 60 game schedule where Trout dud not play a week because he had a child. 

[kevinb]

Trouts getting older. He’s still at his peak or at least we hope he is. But 32 will be here before we know it and the slow decline will hopefully not be painful. The best dude on the planet in the next year or two will be Tatis. 

[Docwaukee]

10 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Trouts getting older. He’s still at his peak or at least we hope he is. But 32 will be here before we know it and the slow decline will hopefully not be painful. The best dude on the planet in the next year or two will be Tatis. 

I think Juan Soto will be the best hitter. Dude turns 22 in a few days 

[arch stanton]

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I think Juan Soto will be the best hitter. Dude turns 22 in a few days 

Remember when Victor Robles was the top 10 prospect? I think Soto passed him somewhere along the way

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

No. Mookie is a hell of a player; probably #2 in the league. He plays winning baseball for winning teams. Trout plays generational baseball for a very mediocre team.

[Lou]

11 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

The Verdict: Trout is still the best player in baseball,

So, no.

[Dtwncbad]

9 hours ago, Stradling said:

This year Trout was incredibly average defensively.  He wasn’t great or even good defensively.  

How soon does he move to left?

[T.G.]

20 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

How soon does he move to left?

As soon as the bat is in motion and he anticipates the ball going that direction 

Edited October 21, 2020 by T.G.

[yk9001]

LOL that we are to the point of excuse-making about Trout's wife having a child. 

And there is nobody in the world, outside Angels fanboards, who give a shit about a player who never plays in the post-season.  It is a huge hole in the resume of an otherwise great player.  It is a big flaw in an otherwise good looking face.

 

[Lou]

7 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

LOL that we are to the point of excuse-making about Trout's wife having a child. 

And there is nobody in the world, outside Angels fanboards, who give a shit about a player who never plays in the post-season.  It is a huge hole in the resume of an otherwise great player.  It is a big flaw in an otherwise good looking face.

 

Sharp shoulders. 

[yk9001]

All time great tennis player Pete Sampras was once asked about his title at the Philadephia Indoors, or some such nondescript tournament.  Sampras said, "Nobody remembers who won Philadelphia or Memphis", the unspoken part being that the only important tournaments are the four majors.

Well, a weekend series in Anaheim against Seattle is the equivalent of the Philadelphia or Memphis tennis tournament.  Meanwhile, Mookie Betts is excelling at the equivalent of Wimbledon or Flushing Meadow.

[yk9001]

12 minutes ago, Lou said:

Sharp shoulders. 

Never a wrong time for this meme.

[Angelsjunky]

3 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

All time great tennis player Pete Sampras was once asked about his title at the Philadephia Indoors, or some such nondescript tournament.  Sampras said, "Nobody remembers who won Philadelphia or Memphis", the unspoken part being that the only important tournaments are the four majors.

Well, a weekend series in Anaheim against Seattle is the equivalent of the Philadelphia or Memphis tennis tournament.  Meanwhile, Mookie Betts is excelling at the equivalent of Wimbledon or Flushing Meadow.

By that logic, Ted Williams was a scrub and thoroughly unmemorable.

 

 

[Stradling]

It’s a shitty comparison between Trout and Sampras.  If Sampras won every single event except for the majors then it would be a great comparison if tennis was a team sport.  So if Sampras or Federer the two greatest players of all time never won a major then maybe it’s a decent comp.   Marino is a better comp. 

[yk9001]

16 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

By that logic, Ted Williams was a scrub and thoroughly unmemorable.

 

 

Ted Williams played in a game 7 of a World Series, back when one team from each league made the postseason. Mike Trout can't make the playoffs in a year when teams under .500 make it.

Ted Williams hit .406 one year.

Ted Williams lost three seasons to WW II, where he was a reserve. He came back and won a batting title.

Ted Williams flew 39 combat missions in the Korean War.  He came back and won a batting title.

 

Mike Trout apparently has a non-par season because the nanny has to change some diapers.

 

Mike Trout is no Ted Williams.

[AngelsWin.com]

https://mlbcomparisons.com/mike-trout-vs-mookie-betts-comparison/

[Ariamus]

no

[Chuck]

The answer to the thread title is...

[yk9001]

30 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It’s a shitty comparison between Trout and Sampras.  If Sampras won every single event except for the majors then it would be a great comparison if tennis was a team sport.  So if Sampras or Federer the two greatest players of all time never won a major then maybe it’s a decent comp.   Marino is a better comp. 

Nobody gives a sh*t if you aren't performing at the highest stage of your sport.

And Marino led his team to a Super Bowl.

[Stradling]

22 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Nobody gives a sh*t if you aren't performing at the highest stage of your sport.

And Marino led his team to a Super Bowl.

That explains why Trout isn’t considered the best player in the sport.

[yk9001]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

That explains why Trout isn’t considered the best player in the sport.

Mark the day on the calendar.  We are in agreement.

[Stradling]

Just now, yk9001 said:

Mark the day on the calendar.  We are in agreement.

I was being facetious.  Mike Trout is universally considered the best player in the game.  So when you say no one cares about him because he doesn’t play on the biggest stage, you are simply wrong.  What it means is you don’t care as much about him because he hasn’t magically made the Angels a contender all on his own.  If people didn’t recognize him as the best player in the game, and one of the greatest of all time, there wouldn’t be this narrative of him being some sort of victim because the “Angels are wasting Mike Trout’s career”.  

[JustATroutFan]

The bear got tricked and lured into a trap. Idiots still think baseball is comparable to basketball. We can nit pick the things that Trout have done that Williams never did on the baseball field.