Second Base Free Agent Options

[Angels 1961]

We all know about Fletcher, Rengifo, Jones or Barreto but I'd like halos go after Ceasar Hernandez. Can get him on 1 year deal 6 to 8 million. Good top of lineup player with a lifetime 277 avg and 352 obp. Fletcher to SS.

[BTH]

The Angels definitely need to upgrade at 2B, but I wonder if they wait out the market to see who falls to them. With money being tight, there may be a lot non-tenders and there could be more options available at 2B than initially anticipated. Hernandez would be good, but they need to be careful with their allocation of resources. They can't be giving Hernandez a ton of money when pitching is the clear need.

[totdprods]

I like Jurickson Profar as an option. Still young, starting to show some of the potential he's lived up to, and most importantly, can play nearly anywhere on the field. Gives us a little more flexibility with the youngsters needed for the bench. I like Cesar Hernandez too, and would not mind a Tommy La Stella reunion one bit.

[Pancake Bear]

2 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

We all know about Fletcher, Rengifo, Jones or Barreto but I'd like halos go after Ceasar Hernandez. Can get him on 1 year deal 6 to 8 million. Good top of lineup player with a lifetime 277 avg and 352 obp. Fletcher to SS.

If he's that good, you aren't getting him for that cheap. And if he isn't, you're better off seeing what Rengifo and Barreto have. Barreto was a top prospect but was blocked from regular playing time. Dodgers wanted Rengifo. Need to see what you've got there before giving up on either -- especially considering they're both cheap options, which is what the Angels need right now. 

[Second Base]

Every free agent option costs money that needs to reserved for pitching and with the exception of DJLM, wouldn't result in sufficiently more WAR to make the acquisition worth it.

I think Barreto or Rengifo would be 2 win player across a full season, as would Profar, La Stella and Hernandez.

And at any rate, I think whatever option they choose will ultimately be a two year stop gap anyway. There's a lot to like with Jeremiah Jackson. Lots of bat speed, could be a 3-4 win player annually. 

And if we're looking at more distant possibilities, Jam Jones' athleticism can't be overlooked. If he hits on that potential of his, you've got an all star 2B. Another distant possibility would have to be Matt Thaiss. As Carlos Pena said, Maddon has a way of working with younger guys on their swing that helps them make that leap. It happened with Pena and Zobrist obviously, he helped Baez and Rizzo reach levels that seemed out of reach before. And this year, Walsh and Ward both broke out and Maddon was talking up Thaiss as if he needed to create ways to get his bat into the lineup because it's a difference maker. 

If that's true, and Thaiss takes to 2B the way he did 3B, then he'd be another option.

[Angels 1961]

23 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

If he's that good, you aren't getting him for that cheap. And if he isn't, you're better off seeing what Rengifo and Barreto have. Barreto was a top prospect but was blocked from regular playing time. Dodgers wanted Rengifo. Need to see what you've got there before giving up on either -- especially considering they're both cheap options, which is what the Angels need right now. 

Signed last year with Cleveland 6.25 mill after Philly did not offer him contract. With market down this off season he will go cheaper maybe under 5 mill. Not giving up on Rengifo he could be your utility inf. and Barreto out of options coming off shoulder surgery so he's big ? now.

[Angels 1961]

24 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Every free agent option costs money that needs to reserved for pitching and with the exception of DJLM, wouldn't result in sufficiently more WAR to make the acquisition worth it.

I think Barreto or Rengifo would be 2 win player across a full season, as would Profar, La Stella and Hernandez.

And at any rate, I think whatever option they choose will ultimately be a two year stop gap anyway. There's a lot to like with Jeremiah Jackson. Lots of bat speed, could be a 3-4 win player annually. 

And if we're looking at more distant possibilities, Jam Jones' athleticism can't be overlooked. If he hits on that potential of his, you've got an all star 2B. Another distant possibility would have to be Matt Thaiss. As Carlos Pena said, Maddon has a way of working with younger guys on their swing that helps them make that leap. It happened with Pena and Zobrist obviously, he helped Baez and Rizzo reach levels that seemed out of reach before. And this year, Walsh and Ward both broke out and Maddon was talking up Thaiss as if he needed to create ways to get his bat into the lineup because it's a difference maker. 

If that's true, and Thaiss takes to 2B the way he did 3B, then he'd be another option.

Thaiss poor fielder at 2B or 3B he could be your super sub not a starter at 2B

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

I like Jurickson Profar as an option. Still young, starting to show some of the potential he's lived up to, and most importantly, can play nearly anywhere on the field. Gives us a little more flexibility with the youngsters needed for the bench. I like Cesar Hernandez too, and would not mind a Tommy La Stella reunion one bit.

I would take Profar also.

[BackUpTheTruck]

I like the idea of the young players competing for the second base job.

We need to spend our money on pitching.

[Chuck]

I'd look at Villar, Wong and Schoop in addition to Hernandez as well. 

Second basemen

DJ LeMahieu (32 years old, 7.8 WAR)
Kolten Wong (30, 5.0) **
Jonathan Villar (30, 3.7)
Cesar Hernandez (31, 3.6)
Tommy La Stella (32, 3.2)
Jonathan Schoop (29, 2.7)
Jason Kipnis (34, 1.7)
Enrique Hernández (29, 1.1)
Adeiny Hechavarría (32, 0.5)
Joe Panik (30, 0.5)
Dee Strange-Gordon (33, 0.2) **
Neil Walker (35, 0.2)
Logan Forsythe (34, 0.1)
Jed Lowrie (37, -0.1)
Josh Harrison (33, -0.4)
Chris Owings (29, -0.7)
Daniel Descalso (34, -0.8) **

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, BackUpTheTruck said:

I like the idea of the young players competing for the second base job.

We need to spend our money on pitching.

Remember - Luis Rengifo/Jahmai Jones could be traded for pitching.

And that might not a choice, it could be simply what they have to do if they don’t want to part with Adell, Marsh, or younger ranks of prospects, and if Thaiss isn’t very valuable in talks. Rengifo could be a key guy. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by totdprods

[Angelsjunky]

10 hours ago, Trendon said:

The Angels definitely need to upgrade at 2B, but I wonder if they wait out the market to see who falls to them. With money being tight, there may be a lot non-tenders and there could be more options available at 2B than initially anticipated. Hernandez would be good, but they need to be careful with their allocation of resources. They can't be giving Hernandez a ton of money when pitching is the clear need.

This. Get the pitching they need first--the best starter they can sign, a reliever or two, and maybe a second starter/swingman--and then see if anyone can be had for cheap. If not, go with Rengifo/Barreto/Jones and let 2021 be an ongoing audition at 2B.

They also probably need a decent platoon catcher more than a 2B.

 

[Docwaukee]

It wouldn't surprise me if Simmons overplays his hand on what he's worth and ends up unsigned in Feb.  The 1yr deals for the pool of guys we're likely to consider usually come very late.  I think I wait this one out a bit assuming you go hard after pitching early.  

There could be some bad blood between Simmons and the halos that we just aren't aware of but there might still be a chance we could bring him back.  

[Erstad Grit]

Kike is a nice risk for someone who is ready to go full-time  imo

[Angel Oracle]

One of three from Profar, Kike, and Cesar Hernandez would work, if they can’t re-sign Simba and have to move Fletch to SS.

All 3 have played most of the positions in their career.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Docwaukee]

I like Profar if they can afford him.  

from a once overrated prospect to a solid player with decent defense, some positional flexibility and entering his 28yo season so primed for a bit of a breakout.  He's not a star but could be a very solid pickup.  He probably gets about 10-12m per season for 3-4 years which would be a bit much.  But if you can get him at 3/24

[TroutCron]

On 10/19/2020 at 1:27 AM, Dochalo said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Simmons overplays his hand on what he's worth and ends up unsigned in Feb.  The 1yr deals for the pool of guys we're likely to consider usually come very late.  I think I wait this one out a bit assuming you go hard after pitching early.  

There could be some bad blood between Simmons and the halos that we just aren't aware of but there might still be a chance we could bring him back.  

Simmons walked out on his teammates the last five games. He won’t be back. There are going to be so many players who will be non-tendered that it is real important to be patient. The Angels need two solid starting pitchers and probably two to four for the pen. I would rather see them sign a SS and let Fletcher play 2B where he is a possible GG winner. I would love to see the Angels acquire a young Catcher who can grow into a number one, they literally have no catching in the minors. 

[Second Base]

On 10/18/2020 at 11:27 PM, Dochalo said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Simmons overplays his hand on what he's worth and ends up unsigned in Feb.  The 1yr deals for the pool of guys we're likely to consider usually come very late.  I think I wait this one out a bit assuming you go hard after pitching early.  

There could be some bad blood between Simmons and the halos that we just aren't aware of but there might still be a chance we could bring him back.  

Not sure about bad blood or not. If I had to venture a guess, Simmons is disappointed the Angels traded for him and were perennial cellar dwellers despite all the talk about winning "next year." 

He's probably also disappointed the Angels spent money during his tenure, just not on an extension for him. He was well compensated to begin with and him not playing was simply a business decision. 

It's a clean break. Simmons wants to go elsewhere and try to find a winner, and the Angels have in house replacements and need the money saved from his exodus too spend on pitching.

No hard feelings. I hope they both get what they want. 

[Docwaukee]

6 hours ago, Second Base said:

Not sure about bad blood or not. If I had to venture a guess, Simmons is disappointed the Angels traded for him and were perennial cellar dwellers despite all the talk about winning "next year." 

He's probably also disappointed the Angels spent money during his tenure, just not on an extension for him. He was well compensated to begin with and him not playing was simply a business decision. 

It's a clean break. Simmons wants to go elsewhere and try to find a winner, and the Angels have in house replacements and need the money saved from his exodus too spend on pitching.

No hard feelings. I hope they both get what they want. 

I still think his actions at the end of the season had to do with either the team telling him they weren't going to offer him an extension or they offered him one that he considered well below what he thinks his market value is.  Maybe 'bad blood' was the wrong term as there might not be any hard feelings which I hope is true and the door is still open.  I seriously doubt it had anything to do with the Angels not winning and more the latter of a business decision to protect himself for free agency.  

[ukyah]

23 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I still think his actions at the end of the season had to do with either the team telling him they weren't going to offer him an extension or they offered him one that he considered well below what he thinks his market value is.  Maybe 'bad blood' was the wrong term as there might not be any hard feelings which I hope is true and the door is still open.  I seriously doubt it had anything to do with the Angels not winning and more the latter of a business decision to protect himself for free agency.  

that is exactly what i think.