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Francisco Lindor would you trade for him?


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No, I wouldn’t trade for him, nor do I think I would sign him.  $35 million when you need pitching isn’t something we should entertain.  Now if Detmers and Chris Rodriguez both took gigantic steps forward and we traded for a young really good starter then I might consider it.  Anything short of that, I’d pass.   

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The only way I can imagine something like this could have happened would be if Adell kicked some serious ass in his debut - enough to have shown he’s an elite talent that Cleveland just had to have - and the Angels were getting some volume of pitching back with Lindor. Adell just didn’t do that though, and while I think he still has plenty of potential and trade value, he didn’t deliver enough ‘wow’ for a justifiably careful team like Cleveland to roll the dice on a deal like that.

The closest I could come up with would be an absolute monster blockbuster, like the Angels moving Adell, a couple legit prospects, and someone like Heaney or Bundy, and the Angels getting Lindor, Carrasco, and one of Plesac/Quantrill/Civale/McKenzie.

Essentially the Angels would be foregoing the idea of extending Bundy or Heaney and opting instead to replace them with Carrasco and his fixed salary and additional control - and using those savings (from a theoretical Bundy and Heaney extension) to work out a Lindor extension - or they just want the QO and a better 2021 chance - and then bank on the cheap SP returned to help afford future FA spends. 

I doubt the Angels would want Carrasco at $12m in 2022 over what Heaney or Bundy could be extended for. Adell didn’t kick ass. The Angels would still have to give up some prospects, the Indians would be giving up a lot of win-now pieces when they’re still competitive...just don’t see it.

Edited by totdprods
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Cleveland will probably want too much for the Halos to make a deal. And if the cost is gutting the farm system, then I'd rather they did that for front-line pitching than another bat. Lindor is a fantastic player but I'd rather they offered Simmons a three-year, $45 million deal to shore up the middle of the infield for the next handful of years and use their big bullets to get pitchers.

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4 hours ago, Stradling said:

No, I wouldn’t trade for him, nor do I think I would sign him.  $35 million when you need pitching isn’t something we should entertain.  Now if Detmers and Chris Rodriguez both took gigantic steps forward and we traded for a young really good starter then I might consider it.  Anything short of that, I’d pass.   

Completely agree. Our FA & draft focus has to almost exclusively be on pitching. Let's put more emphasis on building our farm system pitching and put a temporary hold on acquiring high priced hitters. Pitching is the only way this team ever returns to the playoffs. 

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The big money probably needs to be spent on pitchers and just flat out the angels aren’t getting Lindor.  But I don’t know why so many of you guys speak in absolutes.  They obviously need to do more then just get pitchers.  With Simmons likely departing the middle infield depth is extremely thin.  Lindor aside a known quantity at middle infield could potentially be a key get.  It also wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world to have another solid catcher on the roster.  

Edited by UndertheHalo
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There are four concerns I have with Lindor:

1. The cost in prospects. Start with Adell and Rodriguez/Detmers, and add in a little seasoning.

2. The uncertainty of extending him. There are no guarantees, but the Angels run the risk of losing Adell and Rodriguez plus for a year of Lindor.

3. The cost of extending him. $30-35M AAV, 7-8+ years. Do/can the Angels want to take on a third massive long-term position player contract?

4. Some inconsistency in his record. He peaked at 7.6 WAR/130 wRC+ in 2018, then dropped to 4.4/114 in 2019, and then further to 1.7/100 this year (although in only 60 games, so projected to about 4.5 WAR for a full season). 4-5 WAR is still really good, but his offense has declined in each of the last two years to the point that he was a league average hitter in 2020. League average hitter + great defense = Andrelton Simmons. 

All things tolled, no, I wouldn't trade for him - not unless it could be done for the type of package that the Indians almost certainly wouldn't accept.

Edited by Angelsjunky
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The Angels can get by with Fletcher or Rengifo alternating at SS or 2nd base. The ballclub has reached the point it needs to draw their solutions from within and leave free agency/trades for what they cannot.

Right now the Angels cannot produce a solid front line pitcher from the minor leagues to solidify the rotation so that is where money and prospect currency would need to be spent.

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2 hours ago, Blarg said:

The Angels can get by with Fletcher or Rengifo alternating at SS or 2nd base. The ballclub has reached the point it needs to draw their solutions from within and leave free agency/trades for what they cannot.

Right now the Angels cannot produce a solid front line pitcher from the minor leagues to solidify the rotation so that is where money and prospect currency would need to be spent.

While trading for Lindor is probably too big of a risk for this club, penciling in a player who posted a -0.4 war this year with a limited track record is too big of a risk as well. The most successful teams tend to be those that mitigated their downside risk, more so than teams who rolled the dice and won.

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9 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

While trading for Lindor is probably too big of a risk for this club, penciling in a player who posted a -0.4 war this year with a limited track record is too big of a risk as well. The most successful teams tend to be those that mitigated their downside risk, more so than teams who rolled the dice and won.

I think you've hit on why Billy ultimately got fired.  He wasn't very good at mitigating his downside risk.  Getting lesser production than you thought or would have liked is much different than having players who perform so poorly that they are of the worst in baseball and end up getting released.  

It's pretty easy to add up the money that Eppler just flushed down the toilet over his tenure as GM which I am sure was painfully obvious to Arte.  

Lincecum 2m  (-0.7 WAR)
Chavez 5m  (0.2)
Revere, 4m (0.0)
Pennington 2m (0.4)
Valbuena 6.5m (0.9)
Maybin 7.5m (1.2)
Espinosa 5.5m (-1.0)
Ackley 2.25m  (didn't realize they paid this dude that much money in 2017)
Cozart 12.7m (0.5)
Chris Young 2m (-0.5)
Valbuena 8m (-0.9)
Nolasco 8m (0.6)
Upton 18m (in 2019) (-0.2)
Cahill 9m (-0.8)
Bour 2.5m (-0.4)
Luis Garcia 1.7m (-0.6)
Cozart 12.7m (-0.9)
Harvey 11m (-0.3)
Allen 8.5m (-0.7)
Lucroy 3.4m (-0.3)
Wil Wilson 3.4m (signing bonus and wasted 1st round pick)
Upton 7.8m (prorated for 2020) (0.0)
Teheran 3.3m (-0.9)

The total is just shy of $150 mil.  Total for those players is -4.4 WAR.    It could have been a higher total spent had it not been for the prorated salaries of the shortened season. 

I guarantee some low level peon in the finance department set some form of this on Arte's desk at some point and then ran for the hills as a monte blanc pen with an Angels logo was flung toward him on the way out.  

Is some of this offset by a lot of the other good stuff he did or some of the tremendous bargains Eppler found?  Sure.  Some of it.  But this would have to be a fairly striking optic to the guy cutting the checks.  

Is this worse than how other GM's performed on teams with similar money spent over that time period?  I have no idea but I am sure he was aptly compared to his peers in this regard.  

Billy just wasn't very good at avoiding the truly awful and it cost him his job.  

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