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It's pretty quiet out there considering we are looking for a GM or more.


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2 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I find myself strangely just as interested in where Eppler lands and what he puts together over there. Philadelphia perhaps?

I don’t think it will be Philly.  Their situation is like ours, big pay roll, expectation to win now, bad bullpen.  

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I'd love to see it but..... Those are process driven people.  We have an owner that fired a process driven guy months after saying what he wanted to see now were "wins" and who the team's "presid

It could be because they are not doing anything. 

The only real rule is about the World Series, so you see a lot of stuff happen right before or right after the WS (sometimes on an off day). And the Angels are doing a disturbingly good job of no

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4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Kelly.. KellyKellyKellyKellyKellyKellyKellyKellyKellyKelly K-E-L-L-Y......

Dated a girl named Kelly for a couple of years. For some reason she hated when I sung her that song. No clue why.

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18 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

I'd love to see it but.....

Those are process driven people.  We have an owner that fired a process driven guy months after saying what he wanted to see now were "wins" and who the team's "president" says he deserves to be a part of the process. 

Arte is the biggest obstacle in signing someone from that tree.

I have to say it.   Carpino is a acting like a stooge.    Arte is acting like it’s a plaything.

Maybe it’s time for Arte to sell the team, but keep the stadium and land?

Win Win 

Arte can have fun developing the land, and the Halos can be sold to someone who understands that in baseball the owner signs the checks and leaves ALL other decisions to his president and GM who understand how the game works.

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21 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Yes - exactly this.

When the new ownership group took over, they spent gobs of money on the team, so everyone just assumed it'd be the Yankees all over again.  Kasten, though, was very clear on the team's mission from the beginning.  The team had no talent in both the MLB and MILB squads after McCourt completely decimated them, so Kasten very frankly stated that they were going to spend a lot of money on team payroll immediately to make them competitive, but at the same time, invest in analytics, scouting, and the minors, so that they could, in a few years of time, start to scale back on team payroll and instead use their homegrown pipeline to take over.

As we have seen, it has worked exactly as Kastne laid out.  Their payroll has gradually reduced yearly, and now their minor league system is perpetually a top 5 one, pumping out insane levels of good, young talent.  We need Arte to have this same vision and to hire someone who can enact this plan.  We are considerably ahead of those 2012 Dodgers in that we have a good amount of MLB talent (Trout, Rendon, etc etc), but we need to significantly improve our minor league system, and also need someone who can find the under-the-radar type talent that so many of these Friedman-disciples are good at doing.

One of the many things the Dodgers did that was all about the long game was willingly take on salaries to acquire prospects.   They made teams pay for their mistakes with players while bailing them out financially.  The other thing they did that can't be replicated because the systems have changed -- they dumped a ton of money on international free agents.   Nobody went harder in that area than they did.   People forget Yordan Alvarez was a Dodgers sign, he was one of like 10 Cuban free agents they signed many whom they later used as currency for players they wanted.  Agreeing to pay for most of Matt Kemp's contract to acquire younger players they wanted was again an example of a team thinking long term.  Alot of people mocked them but they knew what they were doing.

The Dodgers ownership group took advantage of the perks of early ownership and depreciation better than most, but few teams went harder at improving their scouting and analytics departments, which is kinda impressive given they already had one of the biggest most entrenched scouting departments in MLB.

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11 hours ago, Dochalo said:

if Arte is involved to the point that he'd nix a trade, then wouldn't it make more sense he is more of a Jerry Jones type?  

I don't think we'll ever really know how granular his involvement is on every deal.  

It's important, but even more important is what he's been asking his last three GMs to do from a big picture standpoint.  

fair enough, but jerry jones's level of involvement is to be the actual gm. i think it's important to realize and note that there is a difference between an owner who wants to be involved in the process and have a voice vs. an owner who insists on being the process and making the actual decisions.

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1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

One of the many things the Dodgers did that was all about the long game was willingly take on salaries to acquire prospects.   They made teams pay for their mistakes with players while bailing them out financially.  The other thing they did that can't be replicated because the systems have changed -- they dumped a ton of money on international free agents.   Nobody went harder in that area than they did.   People forget Yordan Alvarez was a Dodgers sign, but he was one of like 10 Cuban free agents they signed many whom they later used as currency for players they wanted.  Agreeing to pay for most of Matt Kemp's contract to acquire younger players they wanted was again an example of a team thinking long term.  Alot of people mocked them but they knew what they were doing.

The Dodgers ownership group took advantage of the perks of early ownership and depreciation better than most, but few teams went harder at improving their scouting and analytics departments, which is kinda impressive given they already had one of the biggest most entrenched scouting departments in MLB.

You're depressing me. I'm going to need a coloring book.

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55 minutes ago, ukyah said:

i certainly don't. 

Hard position to defend.

You might be the only Angels fan that wouldn't want his three NFL championships or 10 Division championships.  Let me know when Arte can match Jones' impact on the NFL or gets elected to MLB's HOF like Jones admission to Canton.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/leighsteinberg/2017/08/02/how-jerry-jones-helped-revolutionize-the-modern-nfl/#472686d92617

There is no comparison.   

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5 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

When TB hires Eppler:

Scared Dog GIF

It really shouldn't matter who hires him because he isn't the GM anymore, but if TB hired Eppler, I would immediately get the feeling that the Angels made a huge mistake, which I already sort of do.

Like when Dipoto was hired by the Mariners, it made sense that the dumbest franchise would hire the worst GM.

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2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Hard position to defend.

You might be the only Angels fan that wouldn't want his three NFL championships or 10 Division championships.  Let me know when Arte can match Jones' impact on the NFL or gets elected to MLB's HOF like Jones admission to Canton.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/leighsteinberg/2017/08/02/how-jerry-jones-helped-revolutionize-the-modern-nfl/#472686d92617

There is no comparison.   

 

it's comparing apples to oranges. i'm not comparing owners across sports. i'm making a point about what is and is not a "meddlesome" owner. jones is in the hof because he's the most powerful nfl owner and not because he's done anything hof worthy on the field. i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on those qualifications. the cowboys are the yankees of the nfl when talking wealth and value of franchise and jones has won jack piss under his stewardship, but i guess we can give him the early 90's years as his.

we'll also have to wait and see how arte's stewardship compares to jones' after 31 seasons. arte's had 17 years.

the position i was taking is that angel fans should show some perspective on what they call a meddlesome owner. jones has been fucking up the works in dallas for decades as the gm and that's a more widely accepted truth, than the reputation arte has.

 

 

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9 hours ago, ukyah said:

It's comparing apples to oranges. i'm not comparing owners across sports. i'm making a point about what is and is not a "meddlesome" owner. jones is in the hof because he's the most powerful nfl owner and not because he's done anything hof worthy on the field. i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on those qualifications. the cowboys are the yankees of the nfl when talking wealth and value of franchise and jones has won jack piss under his stewardship, but i guess we can give him the early 90's years as his

First, you were the person that referenced Jones in the first place.   Is a guy really "meddling" if he installed himself as the GM from day one.  He was calling the shots at hello.   It's not like was calling plays for Jimmy.   If you want to say he had no business immersing himself in the GM position, fine... that's a different argument, one I have no interest in discussing.

Second, instead of telling me what you are or aren't talking about, maybe you should have paid mind to what you responded to.   You directly quoted my statement.... "I wish Arte could match Jones' achievements" -- I did not quote you (or anyone else), nor did I reference anything you had said while stating my position.   Mine was a 100% standalone comment.

9 hours ago, ukyah said:

 jones is in the hof because he's the most powerful nfl owner and not because he's done anything hof worthy on the field. i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on those qualifications. the cowboys are the yankees of the nfl when talking wealth and value of franchise and jones has won jack piss under his stewardship, but i guess we can give him the early 90's years as his.

LOL. he's the most powerful owner in the NFL because of his actions as an owner and not simply because he owns the Dallas Cowboys.  Neither Bum Bright or Clint Murchinson Jr., before him were viewed in a remotely similar light as Jones is currently or even 10 years into his ownership.  Fact is he was widely criticized early on for thinking too big, and was viewed as an upstart unwilling to accept his place as a lower tenured owner.  It didn't take long for the rest of owners to wise up and let the man make them all more successful.  The dude probably goes in even without the three rings his team won under his "stewardship" as "GM", solely on how he impacted the league.  You may not agree but Jones will likely go down as one of the NFL's greatest owners in league history.   And btw... the three SB rings they won under Jones are more than all but 6 teams in NFL have ever won, and one more than the Cowboys won prior to his arrival.  "Jack piss" indeed.

People will always argue how much credit he deserves for those early Jerry/Jimmy years but when push comes to shove he was the one that took over a floundering franchise, dismissed three absolute legends in Landry, Tex Schramm, and Gil Brandt only to win 3 SBs in four years.  Minus Jerry and his decision to bring in Johnson there is no "How bout them Cowboys" moment.   Jimmy was his boy.  And about Jimmy....  Johnson won two champions while working with Jones, zero without him.   Even JJ has said in retrospect he was too caught up in taking credit to give Jones the credit he deserved.

9 hours ago, ukyah said:

we'll also have to wait and see how arte's stewardship compares to jones' after 31 seasons. arte's had 17 years.

No, we really don't.   We can compare what they accomplished through their first 17 years and it's even more one-sided in favor of Jerry Jones.    You're grasping trying to save a bad take.

9 hours ago, ukyah said:

the position i was taking is that angel fans should show some perspective on what they call a meddlesome owner. jones has been fucking up the works in dallas for decades as the gm and that's a more widely accepted truth, than the reputation arte has.

Widely accepted truth?   That entire narrative was built on the Jerry/Jimmy feud and the years following their split, it's ancient history. 

The biggest criticism of Jones the last decade plus was his loyalty to Jason Garret, and to a lesser degree,Tony Romo.  The days when he caught grief for picks like Shante Carver, Dave Lafleur, Kavika Pittman, Ebenezer Ekuban and Quincy Carter (01), are similarly so far in the rear view mirror they almost don't matter anymore..  There is little question his drafts from 1994-2000 were atrocious and he caught shit for it at the time, but a great deal of the talent erosion in the post Jimmy era was due to their success, the advent of NFL free agency, and the triplets either getting old or having their careers cut short by injury leaving them in cap purgatory..   

They haven't won, but Jones hasn't been the focal point of criticism for a while now, if anything he's been praised for doing a better job of listening to his talent evaluators and handing off a lot of the heavy lifting to Stephen Jones who most people seemingly hold in high regard.  Take a few minutes of your time and read up on what the widely accepted truth is regarding Dallas' drafts the last 7-10 years, they have been one of the best drafting teams over that span.

Anyway, this is more time than I would have preferred to spend on the subject, feel free to get whatever last words you feel necessary, but Ill say it again.  I wish the Angels achievements under Arte came close to matching those of the Cowboys under Jones.    The rest is all noise and opinion and I'm cool with differing views.

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31 minutes ago, Lou said:

I'm beginning to think IP is a Cowboys fan.

Grew up a Cowboys fan.   Not much of a football fan these days.  I can name the Steve Pelluer Paul Palmer rosters but would struggle to name all the current starters.

Found all this Jerry Jones talk kinda funny given the date.  October 12th was when the Herschel trade went down.  As an Angels and Cowboys fan, October 12th became my own personal nightmare day.... First Donnie Moore in 86 and then Herschel in 89.  At least the Cowboys turned it around quickly after that trade.

36 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Dak Prescott turned down a 5 year $175 million dollar contract at the start of the season.

Advantage Jones

Jones has a track record of taking care of his guys.... Gonna be interesting to see how they handle the situation.  If his career is over then Roger Stauhbach will do what he does and help him make millions in some other field.

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