Fire Carpino?

[failos]

I mean why not at this point? What does he have to offer?

[lbjames]

He's just the business guy.  What's your complaint about him? 

He and Arte go way back in the display advertising business.  They used to travel Route 66 back in the 1930s, putting up Burma Shave signs.

[nate]

Carpino and Arte can both kick dirt

[BTH]

It's not gonna happen. He's Arte's friend, going all the way back to before Arte owned the Angels. It'd be better if he was just President of Business Ops, which I think he mostly is. He probably shouldn't be leading the search for a new GM, but they kind of have no choice because they have no one else to do it.

[Lou]

This would be like Chuck banning Doc. 

It's not going to happen.

[Erstad Grit]

3 terrible GM hirings in a row.........

[Pancake Bear]

24 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

3 terrible GM hirings in a row.........

The last two GM’s weren’t terrible hiring. It was the guy behind them that was the problem. 

[Redondo]

2 hours ago, failos said:

I mean why not at this point? What does he have to offer?

@failos your avatar makes my eyes jump. 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Redondo

[Docwaukee]

14 minutes ago, Redondo said:

@failos your avatar makes my eyes jump. 

seriously.  I was actually going to request that he change it.  someone's gonna have a frickin seizure.  

[failos]

Fine I’ll change it

[UndertheHalo]

Who cares.  Keep him, don’t keep him.  What difference does it make ?

Edited October 4, 2020 by UndertheHalo

[tomsred]

2 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

The last two GM’s weren’t terrible hiring. It was the guy behind them that was the problem. 

No, it was the one in the middle.  You know, the one that quit in the middle of the season.

[Pancake Bear]

4 hours ago, tomsred said:

No, it was the one in the middle.  You know, the one that quit in the middle of the season.

That was a personality issue, not a bad hiring. Arte hired a gm and let his manager undercut him. That's not how it's supposed to work. Now, Dipoto lacked the respect for Sosh's history here and tried to treat him like just another manager. That was a fail. But Seattle seems to indicate that his GM fails here were more Arte issues than Dipoto issues. 

Still not a fan on Dipoto, but I don't think he's a terrible gm. Arte is the problem. 

[kevinb]

Good luck. Arte firing his friend. Ya that’s not happening. Try again. 

[Stradling]

10 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

That was a personality issue, not a bad hiring. Arte hired a gm and let his manager undercut him. That's not how it's supposed to work. Now, Dipoto lacked the respect for Sosh's history here and tried to treat him like just another manager. That was a fail. But Seattle seems to indicate that his GM fails here were more Arte issues than Dipoto issues. 

Still not a fan on Dipoto, but I don't think he's a terrible gm. Arte is the problem. 

Sorry but no.  Arte didn’t undermine his ability to build a farm system here.  Arte didn’t force him to get a guy like Baldoquin.  Arte didn’t force him to be disrespectful to Scioscia in the clubhouse.  Arte didn’t tell the players to side with Scioscia instead of Dipoto.  Arte didn’t tell him to quit.  Arte did have a hand in Albert and Josh, but it wasn’t 90% Arte and 10% Dipoto.   Arte did and does expect the team to compete so Dipoto couldn’t rebuild.   But Jerry has a ton of fault, it isn’t simply Arte. 

[Angels in 2030]

Yes -- Clean the swamp (but won't happen)

[Pancake Bear]

4 hours ago, Stradling said:

Sorry but no.  Arte didn’t undermine his ability to build a farm system here.  Arte didn’t force him to get a guy like Baldoquin.  Arte didn’t force him to be disrespectful to Scioscia in the clubhouse.  Arte didn’t tell the players to side with Scioscia instead of Dipoto.  Arte didn’t tell him to quit.  Arte did have a hand in Albert and Josh, but it wasn’t 90% Arte and 10% Dipoto.   Arte did and does expect the team to compete so Dipoto couldn’t rebuild.   But Jerry has a ton of fault, it isn’t simply Arte. 

Agree on a lot of that. Baldoquin was a colossal error. So was how he dealt with Scioscia. 

The farm situation, I'm not sure was his error. Seattle is doing surprisingly well. I find it hard to believe he got that much smarter simply by leaving SoCal. The simplest answer to me was he was under a mandate to win now, screw the cost. 

I'm not saying Dipoto didn't make huge mistakes. Clearly he did. But his experiences outside of the Angels lead me to believe that his problems here were due to an overly involved owner and a manager he was not on the same page with who had the full support of the owner. That's a tough situation to be in as a gm and it undermines your ability to be successful. And Dipoto handled that situation about as clumsily as he could have, so far as I can tell. 

I don't like Dipoto. And I'm never not going to root against Dipoto and whatever team he's on, but it's become clearer to me that the farm system debacle is due at least as much to Arte insisting we win as to Jerry dumping virtually everything of value. 

Maybe I'm wrong, but his history elsewhere just doesn't convince me that everything here was his fault or that he couldn't have done well without the challenges presented here by Arte. 

[totdprods]

On 10/5/2020 at 1:44 PM, Pancake Bear said:

The farm situation, I'm not sure was his error. Seattle is doing surprisingly well. I find it hard to believe he got that much smarter simply by leaving SoCal. The simplest answer to me was he was under a mandate to win now, screw the cost. 

He had actual pieces to sell off, and an ownership group willing to permit it and allow the team perform really poorly for season or three. The Angels didn’t have much to actually sell short of Trout, and Arte wanted them to at least be competitive enough to keep the casual fans coming in at a 3m clip.

[DCAngelsFan]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

He had actual pieces to sell off, and an ownership group willing to permit it and allow the team perform really poorly for season or three. The Angels didn’t have much to actually sell short of Trout, and Arte wanted them to at least be competitive enough to keep the casual fans coming in at a 3m clip.

We finished first in 2014 - and we lacked the talent to go any further.  After that, we traded Howie for Heaney, Cron for a bag of balls (in a perfect world, Pujols should've been traded - not possible, I know - but it was all downhill from there), and we were basically out of guys out of any significant trade value except Trout. 

Our 2015 starting pitching was basically league-average - the 2nd half of 2015 was probably the time to blow up the team - trade anyone with excess value at the time for near-MLB-ready talent except Trout. 

Extremely risky, though, as there wasn't much to trade - Richards, Street, Santiago, Calhoun, Cron - not going to get a lot for them.  And there wasn't *anything* left in the minors to replace them.  We'd have been *really* bad, for quite some time - we were handcuffed by payroll to get better fast via FA - does Trout resign under those circumstances?   

And then - who'd have made those trades?  Our "GM" resigned July 1st.  

The disaster that was the farm, from really poor drafting and development, and his comically-bad handling of the international market - seriously, could he have screwed that up any more?  All that was made evident in 2015 - we had a bad team, a worse farm system, and no payroll to spend - DiPoto was the author of much of that (and I always half-suspected he quit because he saw *that* handwriting on the wall - he drove the car, but bailed out before it went over the cliff. )

[zenmaster]

Your mom should be fired. 

[failos]

Bump

[Docwaukee]

17 minutes ago, failos said:

Bump

bump why? 

something else unrealistic to talk about like signing Bauer and Stroman or Gausman?  

[failos]

11 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

bump why? 

something else unrealistic to talk about like signing Bauer and Stroman or Gausman?  

Because Carpino is clearly a huge problem with this franchise, and it’s relevant. Maybe we should be talking about the elephant in the room instead of trying to brush it under the rug.

 

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, failos said:

Because Carpino is clearly a huge problem with this franchise, and it’s relevant. Maybe we should be talking about the elephant in the room instead of trying to brush it under the rug.

 

what info do you have that you aren't sharing with the rest of us?  

pure supposition that he has any influence on player personnel decisions.  

Most teams have 'business' guys that you've never heard of that influence the owner of every team and for good reason.  

[failos]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

what info do you have that you aren't sharing with the rest of us?  

pure supposition that he has any influence on player personnel decisions.  

Most teams have 'business' guys that you've never heard of that influence the owner of every team and for good reason.  

Don’t pretend like he hasn’t had a hand in baseball related decisions. Him being part of personnel decisions is not a secret.

I know you know your stuff, so please try to discuss this in good faith .