Theo?

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

Holy shit. Lou expressed an opinion.

What would you like my opinion on?

[Angelsjunky]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

What would you like my opinion on?

How about:

- Is tdawg a virgin (Thai trannies aside)?

- What happened to Craig?

- Does Calscuf own a confederate flag?

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

How about:

- Is tdawg a virgin (Thai trannies aside)?

- What happened to Craig?

- Does Calscuf own a confederate flag?

1. I don't care 

2. He was the voice of Mr. Incredible in Incredibles 2.

3. I don't care.

[Warfarin]

If Arte is about big names, then Theo would be the man to go with, as his history is even better than Dombrowski's in that he delivered a title to the two most beleaguered franchises in MLB history (Red Sox, Cubs) who were both incredibly desperate for one.

[Pancake Bear]

Yeah, I don’t see this happening. If Maddon wasn’t the manager, it might be an outside chance, but even then I’d be skeptical.
 

I don’t think it’s an analytics issue with Epstein and Maddon, the impression I got is they simply have a different clubhouse philosophy. Could be wrong. Either way, I don’t see him coming to Anaheim in any case. Might take Philly off the market, though. 

[kevinb]

7 hours ago, Trendon said:

Would Arte pay Theo what he would want/command? Theo was making $10M per season on his last contract.

You’d hope

[ukyah]

8 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yes, and then he saw him in action and pushed him out the door....   The most recent action takes precedence don't you think?

i'd agree with the principle of the second sentence, but i'm pretty sure the first sentence isn't representative of the facts.

joe maddon has played a pivotal role in the success and reputation that theo has rightfully built for himself.

[ukyah]

6 hours ago, Lou said:

1. I don't care 

2. He was the voice of Mr. Incredible in Incredibles 2.

3. I don't care.

none of those are opinions.

[failos]

2 minutes ago, ukyah said:

none of those are opinions.

“I don’t care” is definitely an opinion.

[ukyah]

Just now, failos said:

“I don’t care” is definitely an opinion.

i'll have to disagree. it's a statement of fact, which is not an opinion.

in fact, i don't care is frequently shorthand for, i don't have an opinion, which is exactly the use in lou's post.

 

[rafibomb]

No way Theo comes here knowing Arte won't give him the freedom that he is accustomed to.

[tdawg87]

[Tank]

11 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Ditto.  Only the Angels are owned by the president of the Joe Maddon fan club.

But Maddon was the brains behind 2002!

[failos]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

i'll have to disagree. it's a statement of fact, which is not an opinion.

in fact, i don't care is frequently shorthand for, i don't have an opinion, which is exactly the use in lou's post.

 

Expressing indifference is certainly an opinion.  “I don’t care” is not equivalent to “I don’t have an opinion.”

Look up Sir Thomas More.

[Lou]

Just now, failos said:

Expressing indifference is certainly an opinion.  “I don’t care” is not equivalent to “I don’t have an opinion.”

Look up Sir Thomas More.

Kudos. 

A true hero. 

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, Tank said:

But Maddon was the brains behind 2002!

You should start a thread.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, ukyah said:

i'd agree with the principle of the second sentence, but i'm pretty sure the first sentence isn't representative of the facts.

joe maddon has played a pivotal role in the success and reputation that theo has rightfully built for himself.

The first sentence was indeed hyperbole, but its not that far removed from the truth and I'm sorry but believing he played a pivotal role in anything relating to Theo's reputation is a massive reach for me.  IMO that's right up there with the belief he was the mastermind of the 2002 Angels.  

I don't hate Maddon, I get what he is...what I don't quite get is the mythology that seems to follow him but I have always paid greater attention to a person's actions than I do his words...  It was the same with Jerry Dipoto.

Maddon will be fine, the Angels will be fine, but there is little question Maddon and Theo disagree on how a MLB team should be managed, and they have both said as much .... it was seeing it that led to that divide...  If you think that's me making it up, here you go....  

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28681493/cubs-theo-epstein-acknowledges-differences-joe-maddon

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, failos said:

Expressing indifference is certainly an opinion.  “I don’t care” is not equivalent to “I don’t have an opinion.”

Look up Sir Thomas More.

i'm gonna stand by what i said previously on both points, and respectfully but strongly disagree. i think there may be a small disconnect on our perception of the use of the phrase. i don't care is a dismissal, and not an actual opinion of what one care's about. i'm interested to here how mr. more applies, as i see that phrase as a modern turn and not a classic variety.

you're going to have to point me to exactly what you'd like me to read in regards to thomas more. lay it on me.

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

The first sentence was indeed hyperbole, but its not that far removed from the truth and I'm sorry but believing he played a pivotal role in anything relating to Theo's reputation is a massive reach for me.  IMO that's right up there with the belief he was the mastermind of the 2002 Angels.  

I don't hate Maddon, I get what he is...what I don't quite get is the mythology that seems to follow him but I have always paid greater attention to a person's actions than I do his words...  It was the same with Jerry Dipoto.

Maddon will be fine, the Angels will be fine, but there is little question Maddon and Theo disagree on how a MLB team should be managed, and they have both said as much .... it was seeing it that led to that divide...  If you think that's me making it up, here you go....  

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28681493/cubs-theo-epstein-acknowledges-differences-joe-maddon

i meant nothing more than the manager of the team who won a championship after 106 can't be dismissed any more than the gm or the players can. they each owe a share of their reputations to the others. to deny that is to take sole credit for all of your accomplishments, and that is folly.

[Inside Pitch]

6 hours ago, ukyah said:

i meant nothing more than the manager of the team who won a championship after 106 can't be dismissed any more than the gm or the players can. they each owe a share of their reputations to the others. to deny that is to take sole credit for all of your accomplishments, and that is folly.

Well, to that end.... I guess it's a good thing Theo has never been one to take credit for everything, not in Boston where he made his reputation devoid of Maddon, or Chicago where he handed him a WS caliber roster..   What he has done is gone on record saying Joe Maddon's management style differs than his own which was the impetus for their parting of ways, which you seemed to be questioning previously.

[Blarg]

As far as the mythology of Maddon, those that claim he was the mastermind of the 2002 Angels forget he was on that bench for the most disasterous seasons of the Angels. The collapse of 1995 and the complete meltdown of the coaching staff in 1999. All of the losing seasons 7 years before Scioscia took over, Maddon was there and yet somehow survived several coaching purges. He is an expert politician. 

[Inside Pitch]

22 minutes ago, Blarg said:

As far as the mythology of Maddon, those that claim he was the mastermind of the 2002 Angels forget he was on that bench for the most disasterous seasons of the Angels. The collapse of 1995 and the complete meltdown of the coaching staff in 1999. All of the losing seasons 7 years before Scioscia took over, Maddon was there and yet somehow survived several coaching purges. He is an expert politician. 

I always thought Davey Johnson's take on Maddon was hilarious...  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/post/davey-johnson-responds-to-joe-maddon-calls-rays-manager-a-weird-wuss/2012/06/20/gJQAKG8ArV_blog.html

“I don’t want to get in a shouting match with Joe,” Johnson said. “I looked him up on the Internet and found out he has a Tweeter, so he can get to more people than me. And so I don’t want to get in a shouting match with him. He’s got a bigger following. But it was interesting reading. But you can tell him I have a doctorate of letters, too. Mine’s from Loyola, in humanities. And I’m proud of that, too.”

LOL, a tweeter!

[eligrba]

I think Maddon also saved some children from a burning building in 2002.

[ukyah]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Well, to that end.... I guess it's a good thing Theo has never been one to take credit for everything, not in Boston where he made his reputation devoid of Maddon, or Chicago where he handed him a WS caliber roster..   What he has done is gone on record saying Joe Maddon's management style differs than his own which was the impetus for their parting of ways, which you seemed to be questioning previously.

you seem a little more hardline on this than i intend. i'm only saying, their reputations are intertwined in many ways. maddon's good reputation is due to his own success with the team and also, in no small way, to theo's as well. that pendulum swings both ways. there may very well be a parting of the minds that occurred at some point, but it doesn't change the facts that they all owe a great deal of gratitude for their successes to other people, including each other. i don't think that's a hard point to argue.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

you seem a little more hardline on this than i intend. i'm only saying, their reputations are intertwined in many ways. maddon's good reputation is due to his own success with the team and also, in no small way, to theo's as well. that pendulum swings both ways. there may very well be a parting of the minds that occurred at some point, but it doesn't change the facts that they all owe a great deal of gratitude for their successes to other people, including each other. i don't think that's a hard point to argue.

Not hardline at all.  You're focusing on something I'm not really vested in at all.

Mostly I was making clear that when you questioned whether or not my statement was "representative of the facts", that I was in fact basing it on actual "facts" in the form of direct quotes by the two people in question.  Given the thread is about the possibility of Theo coming here, it seems quite relevant to focus on the reality that Theo grew tired of how Maddon ran the clubhouse/dugout, and that Maddon wasn't happy with being told to do it differently his final two years in Chicago.  

You are free to continue to focus on their shared achievement but its probably good form to likewise acknowledge that their working relationship certainly cratered as time went by.  Its the more relevant issue IMHO.