Theo?

[joeybaseball 9]

It seems Theo Epstein just may be a free of his duties with the Cubs as soon as this winter.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/cubs-president-theo-epstein-to-discuss-future-with-team-no-extension-expected-per-report/

When the 2 sides meet as planned, there's the possible outcome of either him playing out his contract through next season, or opting out this winter.

I get that we have a president of the team who's been in place for awhile. I get that its a big if, but we can dream a bit of the possibilities, eh?

 

[kevinb 1,500]

If he becomes available if I was Arte I’d do everything in my power to get him to Anaheim. He’s one of the top 2-3 baseball people around. 

[Tank 25,159]

I like this idea. Dangle whatever carrots in front of him and get him to Anaheim.

[Taylor 16,467]

[Inside Pitch 16,694]

Theo Epstein would want to bring in his own manager...   

[Jay 4,074]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Theo Epstein would want to bring in his own manager...   

Fine with me...

[Inside Pitch 16,694]

Just now, Jay said:

Fine with me...

Ditto.  Only the Angels are owned by the president of the Joe Maddon fan club.

[Blarg 30,068]

Maddon only has two more years on his contract and Epstein has a lot of work to do. I don't think one would hinder the other. 

[Angelsjunky 10,092]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Theo Epstein would want to bring in his own manager...   

Except didn't Epstein hire Maddon? He was the Cubs president when they brought on Maddon, so presumably he likes him.

[Trendon 195]

Would Arte pay Theo what he would want/command? Theo was making $10M per season on his last contract.

[Inside Pitch 16,694]

23 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Except didn't Epstein hire Maddon? He was the Cubs president when they brought on Maddon, so presumably he likes him.

Yes, and then he saw him in action and pushed him out the door....   The most recent action takes precedence don't you think?

[T.G. 11,241]

People remember what they want to remember, so long as it fits their narrative.

 

[T.G. 11,241]

1 hour ago, Spin Rate said:

Or...

 

[Angelsjunky 10,092]

25 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yes, and then he saw him in action and pushed him out the door....   The most recent action takes precedence don't you think?

Upon further research, it sounded like there was some bad blood - so you're probably right.

 

25 minutes ago, True Grich said:

People remember what they want to remember, so long as it fits their narrative.

 

Whose narrative are you talking about? 

[Inside Pitch 16,694]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Upon further research, it sounded like there was some bad blood - so you're probably right.

 

Whose narrative are you talking about? 

Yeah, shit went down.  Honestly, I think Theo found out that the narrative Maddon is a saber leaning manager was mostly hyperbole.  He's open to everything (including bringing Shaman into the clubhouse), but he is at his core a fly by the seat of his pants guy who will at times completely ignore what the data is telling him.   Theo is 100% about the process.

I don't think TG was aiming that at you so much as he was speaking in general.   People tend to remember the good things more than the bad.   There is no question Maddon entered Chicago as a bit of a conquering hero only to then slink out of town very quietly.

[Angelsjunky 10,092]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yeah, shit went down.  Honestly, I think Theo found out that the narrative Maddon is a saber leaning manager was mostly hyperbole.  He's open to everything (including bringing Shaman into the clubhouse), but he is at his core a fly by the seat of his pants guy who will at times completely ignore what the data is telling him.   Theo is 100% about the process.

I don't think TG was aiming that at you so much as he was speaking in general.   People tend to remember the good things more than the bad.   There is no question Maddon entered Chicago as a bit of a conquering hero only to then skink out of town very quietly.

Fair enough. Anyhow, I don't think managers need to be "saber leaning" as much as "saber adjacent" or open to data. The front office, especially the GM, should heavily use analytics, but the manager's primary job is more psychological and tactical, other than the usual match-up stuff.

[Inside Pitch 16,694]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

Fair enough. Anyhow, I don't think managers need to be "saber leaning" as much as "saber adjacent" or open to data. The front office, especially the GM, should heavily use analytics, but the manager's primary job is more psychological and tactical, other than the usual match-up stuff.

I tend to agree with what the Managers role is -- and sadly, I believed our previous manager was better at that than Maddon or anyone else the Angels have ever employed in that role.  Unlike Maddon, he's never thrown players under the bus, and he never tried to make himself the story.  It was always the players, the players, the players.   Even his most famous clash with a player, came about as a result of his wanting to shield his star player from abuse (Vlad).

[eligrba 4,856]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Except didn't Epstein hire Maddon? He was the Cubs president when they brought on Maddon, so presumably he likes him.

Until he didn't.  I suspect Joe was a patsy for Theo to use to get one more year.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/cubs/2019/9/30/20892786/joe-maddon-cubs-theo-epstein

There’s no excuse for players going soft, lacking hunger, losing their edge. If you want to play for the Cubs, you had better be more accountable than that. You had better be prepared to push yourself harder than ever. And, no, driving these things home to the players isn’t the job of the front office. It’s clear that, in Epstein’s estimation, Maddon dropped the ball in that regard.

[Taylor 16,467]

I don't really care who the Angels hire, as long as they're given the freedom to do what they think is best for the team.

[Angelsjunky 10,092]

5 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Until he didn't.  I suspect Joe was a patsy for Theo to use to get one more year.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/cubs/2019/9/30/20892786/joe-maddon-cubs-theo-epstein

There’s no excuse for players going soft, lacking hunger, losing their edge. If you want to play for the Cubs, you had better be more accountable than that. You had better be prepared to push yourself harder than ever. And, no, driving these things home to the players isn’t the job of the front office. It’s clear that, in Epstein’s estimation, Maddon dropped the ball in that regard.

One thing to consider is that Maddon was really good in getting his teams to the top. He was instrumental in the 2002 Angels, won the pennant with the Rays, and led the Cubs to the WS. I don't know the details about this falling out with Epstein, but I presume it had something to do with the fact that the Cubs didn't become the dynasty that their 2016 team looked like at the time. They still made the postseason in 17-18, but they have the feel of an underachiever.

[T.G. 11,241]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Whose narrative are you talking about? 

What IP said...

[T.G. 11,241]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

"saber adjacent" 

 

This struck me as funny for some reason.

Imagine someone saying that in an interview... "I'm saber adjacent. "

Edited October 4, 2020 by True Grich

[Lou 42,452]

1 hour ago, Spin Rate said:

I don't really care who the Angels hire, as long as they're given the freedom to do what they think is best for the team.

I only care about winning. I don't care who is free to make the choices that lead to that result.

[Lou 42,452]

1 hour ago, eligrba said:

Until he didn't.  I suspect Joe was a patsy for Theo to use to get one more year.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/cubs/2019/9/30/20892786/joe-maddon-cubs-theo-epstein

There’s no excuse for players going soft, lacking hunger, losing their edge. If you want to play for the Cubs, you had better be more accountable than that. You had better be prepared to push yourself harder than ever. And, no, driving these things home to the players isn’t the job of the front office. It’s clear that, in Epstein’s estimation, Maddon dropped the ball in that regard.

But he dressed funny and left cute notes for the players.

[Angelsjunky 10,092]

13 minutes ago, Lou said:

I only care about winning. I don't care who is free to make the choices that lead to that result.

Holy shit. Lou expressed an opinion.