Jump to content

RESULTS: YOU Build the 2020 Angels // YOUR Offseason Plan


Recommended Posts

Before we embark on another offseason, I decided to pull up this thread from last October, and see who here might have built the best team. 

A few assumptions and notes before I start posting up the details:

  • Since it’s fairly obvious the Angels were going to do all they could to sign Cole and pivot to Rendon as a back-up, I will substitute Rendon in place of Cole as a consolation. Virtually everyone had one or the other listed anyways. 
  • I will try to make your plan work, as close as realistically possible. If you had Wheeler for 5/$100m and there was arguably enough money to match Philly, I’ll help you get it done. I will err on the side of optimism and good fortune, while still trying to judge things fairly.
  • I will be using 2020 production for every player, Angels or otherwise, regardless of the fact that it’s impossible to say they would have performed better or worse had they played here or for a full season. Suspend belief a little bit. This is supposed to be fun.
  • The Angels wound up adding about $47m in 2021 payroll, so I will use that as a ‘limit’, taking into account any real-life (or hypothetically reasonable) backloading of contracts.
  • If the terms you offered for a FA were not ballpark, they will not have signed here, and we’ll use the next best internal option from the existing Angels (i.e., failing to sign Moustakas for 2B, so Fletcher instead).
  • Similar approach for trades, though it can be harder to gauge. I will begrudgingly use the Baseball Trade Value Simulator (www.baseballtradevalues.com) to scope out some of the feasibility of deals proposed, since it will judge all deals through the same values – though the values will be off since they’re current, not based on last year’s value when these were created. If I do this thread again this year, I’ll be more mindful and get values now. 
  • I will include more minor acquisitions such as Mayers, Barnes, and Andriese if your plans didn’t bring in players who would have prevented them from being acquired (i.e., signing four relievers) in the final team. 
  • This won’t be perfect and is just meant to be fun. Perhaps each year it can become a little more scientific and serious. So, yes, it’s silly to think a player’s production would have been identical or even similar here, but for the sake of the exercise, let that go.
  • Any other justifications or notes will be added in each of the results posted.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Many posters here came up with plans that wound up being very similar. For the sake of brevity, here's a condensed list of who the major moves wound up being for each poster. 

@Dochalooffered about ten different versions, of which I'm still working on for a separate entry. 

@floplag attempted at revising his plan a little later on, but it was a little vague/ambiguous for this exercise. Not enough specificity to really weigh a judgement, but appreciate the effort!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I'll start with myself: 

  • 1. Sign SP Gerrit Cole - 7/$245m - back-loaded, 2020 salary at $25m  
    Rendon subs in, especially since the contract was almost exact.
  • 2. Sign C Jason Castro (or a non-tendered Mike Zunino) - 2/$12m 
    Castro signed similarly, so realistic.
  • 3. Trade RP Cam Bedrosian ($3m) and SP Andrew Heaney ($5m) to Chicago for SP Jose Quintana ($11.5m) - adds $3.5m
    I'd think the Cubs would have made this deal. Realistic.
  • 4. Sign IF Mike Moustakas - 2/$22m
    Not realistic. Moose signed for much more.
  • 5. Sign LHP Cole Hamels - 1/$10m
    Not realistic. Hamels got 1/$18m from Atlanta. Bullet dodged!
  • 6. Extend SS Andrelton Simmons - 4/$40m, saving $5m from '20 payroll, as it renegotiates his '20 salary. Or, call it 5/$50m if you feel adding three years is too short.
    No real bearing on 2020.
  • 7. Sign RHP Brandon Kintzler - 1/$5m
    Realistic - he signed for less in Miami. 
  • 8. Trade 2B/OF Jahmai Jones and IF/OF Taylor Ward to Miami for RHP Elieser Hernandez 
    Realistic, as the trade simulator even today puts the values for all involved fairly close. 

Verdict:
The rotation really takes a hit without Heaney, as Quintana only pitches 10 innings. Hernandez is very good - 3.15 ERA, 11.9 K/9, but only made 25.2 IP of work. Kintzler would have helped the bullpen, but guys like Andriese and Pena would have been used more to cover the rotation, and Bedrosian being deal cancels out Kintzler's add. The lineup is about the same. This team is about the same as the 2020 Angels at best, and likely, worse. 

Edited by totdprods
Link to post
Share on other sites

Next up, I'll add in @Erstad Grit, @tdawg87, and @Angel Oracle, who all had a similar plan, with all three landing Anthony Rendon, Zack Wheeler, and a cheap vet catcher.

  • Erstad Grit:
    • Sign Cole 7/240 - I'll sub in Rendon since this was close.
    • Sign Wheeler 4/100 - Since you were willing to go $25m AAV and didn't spend elsewhere, I'll assume you went 5/$125m and managed to sign him.
    • Sign Wieters 1/5 - Realistic, since he signed for less with St. Louis.
       
  • tdawg87
    • Cole: 7 years/230 million.
      Nowhere close to final amount - not realistic, but you'll get Rendon instead.
    • Trade Simmons to Atlanta for William Contreras (I know, wrong Contreras), Braden Shewmake and Kyle Muller. 
      Not really seeing the need for Atlanta, and Simmons trade value never appeared to be that high. Not realistic.
    • Wheeler: 5 years/100 million.
      This was close enough - I’ll give it to ya. Realistic.
      Motherfuckin Rendon: 7 years/230 million
      Close enough and no Cole, so yes, realistic.
    • Chirinos: 1 year/8 million
      Realistic, as he signed for 1/$6.5m.
       
  • Angel Oracle:
    • Coming around now to Cole, Wheeler, and Gomes; and buying out Kole.
      You get the Rendon for Cole swap, Wheeler for 5/$125m, and Gomes for what he signed for. All reasonable.

Verdicts:
 @Erstad GritThis team would have been about the same as the 2020 Angels. Bundy and Wheeler were fairly similar, and the addition by subtraction of no Teheran means guys like Pena, Andriese, Sandoval, and Barria get more starts - which may have helped the rotation, but hurt the pen, cancelling out any advantage there, especially with no other pen additions. Wieters was worse than Castro so that would have stung the offense, but probably not much change.

@tdawg87 Another plan that’s basically Wheeler and Rendon, no other pitching help in pen or rotation, or offensive help. This team is again, about the same.

@Angel OracleWithout contract specifics it’s hard to weigh in. I’ll give you Rendon instead of Cole, an assumption you spend big on Wheeler and will add Gomes, who had a good season (.787 OPS) but nothing that would have given us more than Stassi did. This team is about the same.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Next up, I'll add in @angelsnationtalk, @Angelsjunky, and @TheUPSman, all who had plans that resulted in the Angels landing Rendon and Wheeler

  • angelsnationtalk:
    • Gerrit Cole: 7r/$224M
      Not realistic - he got two years and $100m more, but...
    • Zack Wheeler: 5yr/$85M
      I'll give you Wheeler with some of that dough, especially since you were willing to go five years. Realistic.
    • Assuming Indians trade Lindor- Trade Simmons (-$15m) + Marsh + Suarez + Yan to Indians for Mike Clevinger (+$4.5M)
      Not realistic. Clevinger's eventual trade involved a lot more talent, Simmons didn't have much trade value, and Lindor wasn't dealt.
    • Rendon: 7yr/$217M backloaded
      You got him!
    • Maldonado: 1yr. $2M
      Maldy signed for more years and dollars - not realistic.
       
  • Angelsjunky:
    • 1. Sign Gerrit Cole: Seven years, $25M in 2020. 
      With Cole getting 9 years and $36m in ‘20, I’ll say not realistic. You get Rendon though!
    • 2. Sign Zack Wheeler: Five years, $15M in 2020.
      You got Wheeler’s years right, but he still made $21m in ‘20 so the dollars are low. Still, you may have backloaded it where he peaked around $30m annually later on. Despite his geographic preference, I’ll give it to ya. Realistic.
    • 3. Sign Yasmani Grandal: Three years, $15M in 2020.
      Not enough given the Sox contract. Not realistic.
    • 4. Try to turn some quantity into quality in some way: I won't offer specific trades, but try to trade players like Ward and Walsh for, say, a catcher or pitching prospect.
      Won’t speculate on this as there isn't enough for me to work with, but will say yikes, of the two guys to deal!
    • 5. Pick-up some clean peanuts, other odds and ends. 
      This is given with Mayers and Barnes.
       
  • TheUPSman
    • Sign Cole 7/245
      Again, Rendon is subbed in, especially with the contract exact.
    • Sign Strasburg 5/180
      Strasburg signed for way more, but we can pivot this to Wheeler.
    • Sign Maldonado 1 to 2 years at 1 to 2 mil per
      He signed for more, so unrealistic.
    • Trade Simmons, Canning, Marsh, and another prospect to the Mets for Thor.
      I don't think Simmons would have been appealing enough for Thor, and Canning and Marsh might have come close. If Syndergaard had actually pitched this year, I think I would have taken a closer look at this, but since he had TJS, I'll go ahead and say this trade didn't happen and it would not have been enough - which is a good thing for 2020, but maybe not 2021.
       

Verdicts:
@angelsnationtalk essentially, you also added Rendon and Wheeler, and that’s about it. The team would have been about the same, as Wheeler was basically cancelled out by what we got from Bundy.

@Angelsjunky This team adds Rendon and Wheeler. But not Bundy or another arm or bullpen help. This team winds up about the same as 2020. Losing Walsh and Ward would have hurt given their performances, and with neither having much trade value last winter, I can’t imagine they would have brought back any sort of difference makers, and especially in Walsh’s case, anyone who would have performed better than them.

@TheUPSmanAgain, this is adding Rendon and Wheeler, who is essentially canceled out by Bundy. This team is about the same.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Next up is @floplag and @Warfarin's first version, both of which landed Anthony Rendon and Yasmani Grandal:

  • floplag:
  • Extend Simmons for another 2 years.  Trading for Lindor will cost too much to make sense in my view.
    No real difference on 2020.
  • Sign Cole, mostly backloaded for post Pujols/Upton. shoot for 25-30M AAV.
    You'll get Rendon as consolation.
  • Sign Wheeler. You could reach for the moon and say Strasburg but i think we have other needs to take #1 and #2 off the board.  Hopefully no more than 15M AAV?  
    Unrealistic, since he got significantly more. 
  • Sign Grandal or trade for a front-line catcher.  Optionally bring back Maldonado.
    Instead of Wheeler, I'll give you Grandal, even though you didn't mention terms. Teheran, Castro, and Bundy wound up costing about the same as Grandal's salary, so it's a decent consolation. Realistic.
  • Sign Rendon.  Opens up options to trade some infield depth and solidifies the spot.  Optionally Moustakis but i think perhaps that time has come and gone, time to move on but if it could be had for lets say 2/22 
    As mentioned, you'll get Rendon instead of Cole, but Moose signed for much more, so no extra add there.

Verdict:
Stassi had a better batting average, virtually identical OBP, and much higher slugging than Grandal. He surprised us all inslashing .886. Grandal did spot a few games at 1B, threw out more runners, and appeared in more games, but hard to say his presence over Stassi would have made significant difference. Without any realistic moves to address pitching, I’ll say this team would have been about the same as the 2020 Angels. Maybe a little better offensively, but the staff would have struggled similarly, and the rotation depth continuing to be an issue.

  • Warfarin:
  • 1.  Sign Cole (7/245)
    Again, Rendon subs in, especially with same terms.
  • 2.  Sign Wheeler (4/80).  
    Close - but not enough to pry him away from Philly. Unrealistic, and I'll explain more.
  • 3.  Sign Grandal (3/48).
    Ultimately, I feel like I could have given you either Wheeler or Grandal - especially since you dealt Simmons to free up some money, but don't think the Angels could have afforded both even with those savings, not with how much more they signed for over your projections. I felt like your offer for Grandal was a stronger starting point than Wheeler's 4/$80m, Wheeler voiced a geographic preference, and Wheeler's contract, at well over $100m, was a bit more of a commitment. So I went with Grandal. Plus, you got a second version in the mix too!
  • 4.  Trade Simmons for a SP prospect (save 15mil)
    Done - without elaborating who was received, and Simmons’ relative low trade interest at the deadline, I will give you a AA/AAA SP who is solid but didn’t really impact the 2020 team, at least in a major way. Another Sandoval type.
  • 5. Sign Moose (2/22) (Or, if we want another SP, we can forego Moose and add Hamels at a similar cost.)
    Moose and Hamels both received far more, so unfortunately, neither were realistic.

Verdict:
Essentially, this team adds Grandal and Rendon. They’re better offensively, but the rotation is again relying on rookies and the depth is exposed.  This team is again about the same.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Second Base offered two plans that were quite similar. I'll put them both here.

  • Version One:
    • Sign Hyun Jin Ryu: 3/70. Backloaded - 20, 25, 30.
      Ryu signed for 4/$80m with Toronto, so, yes, this is realistic.
    • Sign Rich Hill 1/10. 
      Hill signed with Minnesota for 1/$3m, so this too is realistic.
    • Sign Michael Pineda 2/20. Backloaded - 5, 15
      Pineda signed for the exact same deal with Minnesota. I’ll give this to you too! Realistic.
    • Sign Yasmani Grandal 4/60.
      Not quite enough to pull in Grandal given what he signed with in Chicago - and even with your backloading above, still a little too tight to assume they afford him and sign him. Not realistic.

Verdict:
This is a probably a better team than the 2020 Angels! Primarily, the strength of the rotation allows the Angels to keep Pena, Sandoval, and Andriese in the pen, with Barria picking up the starts missed by Hill and Pineda. While the pitching is muchimproved, not signing Rendon is a blow to the offense, especially with Upton’s cold snap, Ohtani's struggles, Pujols, Rengifo, more Bemboom, less Castro - topping Oakland for the division would have been a stretch, but they probably sneak into the playoffs ahead of Houston. That said, Ryu’s lone postseason performance and Minnesota’s quick exit though points to signs that the Angels might not have fared much better in the playoff round...

  • Version Two:
    • Sign Zack Wheeler 5 years, 90 million. Year 1-10 million. Year 2-15 million. Year 3-20 million Year 4-24.5 million. Year 5-24.5 million.
      Unrealistic, given what he ultimately received.
    • Sign Hyun Jin Ryu 4 years 100 million. Year 1-15 million. Year 2-20 million. Year 3-30 million. Year 4-35 million. Mutual Option for 5th year at 20 million.
      Realistic, since he signed for 4/$80m. This was actually a big overpay, but hey, it would have worked - for 2020 so far.
    • Sign Michael Pineda 2 years 24 million
      Again, more than he received, so yes, realistic.
    • Sign Rich Hill 1 year 9 million.
      Again, more than he received, realistic.
    • Trade Andrew Heaney, Jahmai Jones and Hector Yan to the Cubs for catcher, Victor Caratini.
      Realistic, as the Cubs could have used Heaney in their rotation and the prospects fit their needs. 
    • Sign Mitch Moreland 1 year, 7 million.
      He signed for 1/$3m, so definitely realistic.

Verdict:
Moreland was great in ‘20, and he would have kicked Bert out of the picture earlier on, but Walsh might not have had a chance to break out though, and he was extremely comparable to Moreland’s production, cancelling this out to a degree. Caratini had a poor year, but was no worse than Bemboom. Staff is again much better, but the offense sure is still shaky without Rendon. Still, I’ll assume Thaiss has a bit of a breakthrough like Walsh and Ward with some extended time at 3B - nothing significant but nothing painful. This team performs a bit better overall on the strength of a good rotation, but Heaney is missed and the offense is still a little suspect.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Next up is @CanadianHalo, whose moves essentially gave the Halos Rendon, Quintana, and Willson Contreras.

  • Sign: Gerrit Cole (23 mill year 1) and Wheeler (17 mill year 1).
    Unfortunately, the $$$ aren’t there for either, especially without full terms. Not realistic. You’ll get Rendon though!
  • Trade for: Jose Quintana (10.5 mill) and Willson Contreras (4.5 mill)
    Typically, I would want names included in the deal, but I’ll give ya this. I’ll assume it stung. Quintana missed the year, Contreras was solid - but Stassi was as good.
  • Extend Simba to save 5 mill if need be
    No effect on 2020.

Verdict:
This team would have been, at the best, the same as the 2020 Angels, and potentially worse. The rotation would have relied on the rooks, especially without Quintana, the offense the same as Contreras did not offer much more than Stassi, and the bullpen the same, maybe worse with Pena and Andriese being  used for starts. Not knowing who was dealt for Contreras makes this tough to gauge. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Now we go to @Vlad27Trout27 who netted us Rendon, d'Arnaud, and Eric Thames. 

  • Cole 7yr 224 mil. 25 mil first year or Stras 5 yrs 135 mil  20 mil first year
    Money isn’t enough, but you’ll get Rendon!
  • Hamels on a 2 yrs 24 mil 
    Not realistic, based on how he received almost the same money for one year in Atlanta.
  • d’Arnaud 2yr 14 mil or Castro 1yr 3/4 mil
    I’ll give you d’Arnaud, who signed for 2/$16m. Realistic. Castro signed for more, so we’ll say he didn’t sign - but the money you projected instead went to d’Arnaud and...
  • Thames 1 yr 2mil
    He signed for 1/$4m with Washington - I’ll give it to you though, realistic!
  • Billy finds a few scrapes out there
    As with others, you will get Mayers and Barnes.

Verdict:
Like a lot of other plans, this team is at best, about the same, with the rookie rotation exposing the team’s pitching depth a little more than would have been comfortable. d’Arnaud is a great signing, but also comparable to Stassi’s production, so no real difference to the teams offense. Thames disappointed as well, producing no better than someone like Pujols or Thaiss.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's @wopphil's turn:

  • Great thread. My thoughts:
    • Sign Cole: 7/224 (back loaded to pay $27 mil in 2020)
      You get Rendon as a consolation since it was close.
    • Trade for Matthew Boyd or someone similar: $4 mil 
      I’ll deem this realistic, despite not knowing who we gave up, given the teams needs and history of dealing together.
    • Sign Zack Wheeler:  5/110 (back loaded to pay $18 mil in 2020)
      This is the closest comp yet to Wheeler’s 5/$118 with Philly. I’ll forgo his geographic preference and say yes, realistic.
    • Sign a solid pen arm: 1/6.
      Using MLBTR’s Top 50 FA Predictions rankings, I’ll give you Steve Cishek who was the lone reliever to receive exactly 1/$6m and is (was) a solid pen arm.
    • Adds $55 mil, but doesnt do anything to address the offense, which i think needs help.

Verdict:
You get Rendon so the Angels offense remains presumably the same - unless any of Stassi, Goodwin, or Walsh went to Detroit in the Boyd deal. I’ll say they didn’t though. Wheeler replaces Bundy in the rotation, but that doesn’t change much. Boyd replaces Teheran and was better - but still pretty bad, with an ERA near 7. Cishek steps into the pen, but also struggled with an ERA over 5. This team would have been about the same - maybe a little better with Boyd still being an improvement over Teheran, allowing some of the depth guys like Sandoval to work more in the own. Whatever Boyd cost in trade might cancel out those wins, however.

Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Next up, I'll add in @Erstad Grit, @tdawg87, and @Angel Oracle, who all had a similar plan, with all three landing Anthony Rendon, Zack Wheeler, and a cheap vet catcher.

  • Erstad Grit:
    • Sign Cole 7/240 - I'll sub in Rendon since this was close.
    • Sign Wheeler 4/100 - Since you were willing to go $25m AAV and didn't spend elsewhere, I'll assume you went 5/$125m and managed to sign him.
    • Sign Wieters 1/5 - Realistic, since he signed for less with St. Louis.
       
  • tdawg87
    • Cole: 7 years/230 million.
      Nowhere close to final amount - not realistic, but you'll get Rendon instead.
    • Trade Simmons to Atlanta for William Contreras (I know, wrong Contreras), Braden Shewmake and Kyle Muller. 
      Not really seeing the need for Atlanta, and Simmons trade value never appeared to be that high. Not realistic.
    • Wheeler: 5 years/100 million.
      This was close enough - I’ll give it to ya. Realistic.
      Motherfuckin Rendon: 7 years/230 million
      Close enough and no Cole, so yes, realistic.
    • Chirinos: 1 year/8 million
      Realistic, as he signed for 1/$6.5m.
       
  • Angel Oracle:
    • Coming around now to Cole, Wheeler, and Gomes; and buying out Kole.
      You get the Rendon for Cole swap, Wheeler for 5/$125m, and Gomes for what he signed for. All reasonable.

Verdicts:
 @Erstad GritThis team would have been about the same as the 2020 Angels. Bundy and Wheeler were fairly similar, and the addition by subtraction of no Teheran means guys like Pena, Andriese, Sandoval, and Barria get more starts - which may have helped the rotation, but hurt the pen, cancelling out any advantage there, especially with no other pen additions. Wieters was worse than Castro so that would have stung the offense, but probably not much change.

@tdawg87 Another plan that’s basically Wheeler and Rendon, no other pitching help in pen or rotation, or offensive help. This team is again, about the same.

@Angel OracleWithout contract specifics it’s hard to weigh in. I’ll give you Rendon instead of Cole, an assumption you spend big on Wheeler and will add Gomes, who had a good season (.787 OPS) but nothing that would have given us more than Stassi did. This team is about the same.

I love what you're doing. However I would not have signed Rendon. I would have shifted to other SP if Cole was not a possibility. I would have replaced Cole with Ryu/Keuchel/ and embarrassingly Madbum. I didn't think Bundy would be as good as he was so I would have gone that way.

Play out my team that way if that's fair 🙂 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Next up is @Chuckster70 and @Chris, both of whom had plans that netted us Gerrit Cole - and that was about it.

  • Chuckster70:
    • Sign Gerrit Cole
    • Trade Jordyn Adams, Jose Suarez, Jamie Barria and Taylor Ward for Wilson Contreras, Yu Darvish, Tyler Chatwood.
    • Sign Martin Maldonado to backup Contreras and catch Ohtani and Cole. Contreras to DH on days Ohtani is not available.

Verdict:
I’ll actually let you keep Cole, since no contract terms were offered - but the Cubs trade doesn’t seem realistic. Doubt that package is enough for Contreras or Darvish, let alone both, and since you went all out to sign Cole (theoretically topping the Yanks 9/$324m) there’s no way the Angels can assume all of that salary. This team only adds Cole, but not really anyone else. No Rendon, no Bundy. You'll get Maldonado, but he won't add much, possibly taking away from Stassi's playing time. As much as I'd like to say this team is better, this team is worse - for 2020. Darvish was masterful this year though - and if the Angels had found a way to trade for him while signing/trading another arm, things could have been quite different.

  • Chris:
    • 1: Sign SP Gerrit Cole - 8/$280m
      Chris surprised us all by giving the highest projected contract for Cole at that point. He also had the Angels spending an outrageous amount - also signing Grandal (for a contract better than he received) and a ballpark contract for Wheeler - while still signing Calhoun and Maldonado. All of this wouldn’t have been realistic and we’ve had many ideas already land Wheeler, Grandal, or both - but none with Cole. I’ll bend my rule here a bit since his prediction was the most aggressive early on and assume he goes 9/$325 Cole and gets him. But that means no Rendon, especially since he asserted Fletcher becomes everyday 3B, and that also certainly means no Grandal or Wheeler.
    • 2. Sign C Yasmani Grandal - 4/80m
      Priced out after Cole.
    • 3. Sign SP Zack Wheeler - 5/100m
      Priced our after Cole.
    • 4. Sign Backup C Martin Maldonado - 1/2m
      He got more money and years, so I’ll say unrealistic.
    • 5. Sign 1B Kole Calhoun - 3/18m
      Received almost the same amount with one mess year to play home in Arizona. Not realistic.
    • 6. Extend SS Andrelton Simmons - 5/$50m
    • 7. Have Goodwin/Adell cover RF; Keep Marsh/Hermosillo as OF depth at AAA
    • 8. Trade Jones, Ward, Thaiss for milb pitchers; Keep Walsh as 1B depth at AAA
    • 9. Make La Stella everyday 2B (Rengifo as UT INF)
    • 10. Make Fletcher everyday 3B

Verdict
This was one of the hardest to weigh on, with so much going on. I tried to apply as much logic and realism to these deals - decided that the Angels winning on Cole due to the aggressive prediction was the best I could give. Cole would have easily been a huge improvement at #1, but not enough for the rotation as a whole to have been much better. The offense would have hurt without Rendon, especially with Rengifo struggling and Thaiss not with the org to make an impact. Still, dealing Jones, Ward, AND Thaiss for minor league pitching should have landed at least some help. I’ll say the rotation and bullpen would have performed a hair better than 2020 - but the offense stepping back without Rendon would have canceled it out. I'll give Chris a slight nudge over Chuck's plan in that so many minor leaguers were dealt, we'll presume something useful came back, but overall, I can't say this team is better or even the same as 2020 - but in a really interesting place going into 2021.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Erstad Grit said:

I love what you're doing. However I would not have signed Rendon. I would have shifted to other SP if Cole was not a possibility. I would have replaced Cole with Ryu/Keuchel/ and embarrassingly Madbum. I didn't think Bundy would be as good as he was so I would have gone that way.

Play out my team that way if that's fair 🙂 

Without having anything specified, I had to sort of just go with what the Angels did. They were seemingly Cole or Rendon all along, so I defaulted to that, even though this was a "YOU build the team plan". 

I'm hoping the 2021 Build Your Team thread has a little more structure to it though and inspires some more detailed plans and contingencies for us to consider at the end of next season. This was fun to go back on, given how many permutations we all come up with.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@VariousCrap is up to bat.

  • Sign:  Wheeler 4/72 - average of 18 million a year
    Unrealistic, in that he signed for so much more. 
  • Sign:  Odorizzi 4/40 - average of 10 million a year
    Unrealistic, since he took the QO.
  • Sign:  Hamels 2/30 - average of 15 million a year 
    Realistic! I’ll give ya this. Salary was close and he got a second year.
  • Sign:  Grandal 3/57 - average of 19 million a year
    I’ll add an extra year for ya up to 4/$76m and say we get him. Realistic.
     

Verdict:
Without adding Rendon, without adding another SP besides Hamels, who misses the season, this team is worse than 2020. Grandal and Stassi relatively cancel each other out, or at least only provides a minor offensive bump - we'll assume Grandal gets some 1B playing time.

Edited by totdprods
Link to post
Share on other sites

@Adam Knox taking a swing:

  • Sign Cole, Wheeler and Wacha. 
  • Bring back Maldy 1 year deal. 
  • Extend Simmons team friendly deal.
  • Trade Cam salary dump for prospect. 

Verdict:
Again, without contract specifics I can’t do much. I’ll give you Rendon instead of Cole, a miss on Wheeler, but will give you Wacha, Maldy, and Cam dealt. Unfortunately - Wacha was pretty bad. This team, with no other pitching added, would have been worse.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Warfarin came back for seconds, and offered this:

  • 1. Sign Cole (7/245) – year 1 salary of 28mil
    Subbing in Rendon, who got the exact same money.
  • 2. Sign Ryu (3/48) – year 1 salary of 15mil (I’d prefer Wheeler, but I suspect a lot of teams will bid him up, and Ryu doesn’t have a QO attached)
    Not enough dough - unrealistic.
  • 3. Sign Grandal (4/60) – year 1 salary of 12mil
    Not enough moolah - unrealistic.
  • 4. Trade Simba for a SP3/SP4 pitching prospect (yes, I know unpopular, but saves ~15mil payroll)
    Realistic - doesn’t do much for 2020 either way, especially without a prospect named to work with.
  • 5. Trade Bedrosian (-3mil) + 45/40 FV prospects to LAD for Stripling (very solid SP4, has flashed SP3 when given a chance to start consistently, was an All-Start game selection in 2018, only projected to earn 2mil in arbitration and has 3yrs of control) + Hernandez (super versatile and really useful, 6mil in arbitration, 1 yr of control) (add ~5mil)
    I’ll actually give you this, using the speculated Stripling deal as a base - Bedrosian, Rengifo, and Ward for Stripling and Hernandez.
    Verdict:

Losing Bedrosian doesn’t do much to hurt the pen, nor does Rengifo hurt the lineup, but Stripling and Hernandez had rough years and weren’t really any better than what we used instead. This team would have been a little worse, or, at best, about the same, given that Stripling was a bit better than Teheran and Hernandez a bit better than Rengifo. No other pitching adds hurt.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And here's @popo85, who offered one of the most different plans:

  • -Straus 5 yrs 140
  • -Dallas K 3yrs 50
  • -Trade Marsh, Sandoval for Contreras

The Strasburg deal didn’t come close - I’ll give you Wheeler as a sub though. The deal for Contreras seems relatively feasible too, given how valuable Marsh was and how well Sandoval looked in '19. I’ll give you that too. And the Keuchel deal was close enough to his actual deal, 3/$55.5m, I'll call that realistic!

Verdict:
This is a good team. The rotation is right up there with SecondBase’s as being one of the two best built by poster’s this past offseason. The bullpen is theoretically a little better with the rotation being deep and healthy enough to keep Pena and Andriese in the pen. Contreras had a good season, but was not markedly different from Stassi. I'll give Contreras some 1B/DH at-bats. No Rendon hurts. I’ll say this team is slightly better than the 2020 Angels, probably .500+.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, totdprods said:

It's @wopphil's turn:

 

  • Great thread. My thoughts:
    • Sign Cole: 7/224 (back loaded to pay $27 mil in 2020)
      You get Rendon as a consolation since it was close.
    • Trade for Matthew Boyd or someone similar: $4 mil 
      I’ll deem this realistic, despite not knowing who we gave up, given the teams needs and history of dealing together.
    • Sign Zack Wheeler:  5/110 (back loaded to pay $18 mil in 2020)
      This is the closest comp yet to Wheeler’s 5/$118 with Philly. I’ll forgo his geographic preference and say yes, realistic.
    • Sign a solid pen arm: 1/6.
      Using MLBTR’s Top 50 FA Predictions rankings, I’ll give you Steve Cishek who was the lone reliever to receive exactly 1/$6m and is (was) a solid pen arm.
    • Adds $55 mil, but doesnt do anything to address the offense, which i think needs help.

Verdict:
You get Rendon so the Angels offense remains presumably the same - unless any of Stassi, Goodwin, or Walsh went to Detroit in the Boyd deal. I’ll say they didn’t though. Wheeler replaces Bundy in the rotation, but that doesn’t change much. Boyd replaces Teheran and was better - but still pretty bad, with an ERA near 7. Cishek steps into the pen, but also struggled with an ERA over 5. This team would have been about the same - maybe a little better with Boyd still being an improvement over Teheran, allowing some of the depth guys like Sandoval to work more in the own. Whatever Boyd cost in trade might cancel out those wins, however.

This is a great thread dude, thanks for taking the time to do this. Very fun to read. And shows why it is so hard to be a GM.

I would have whiffed big time if I were the GM last season. I definitely was in favor of bringing in Boyd and Kluber, both of which would have been disastrous trades. I also was strongly in favor of the Pederson/Stripling trade. Again, that wouldn’t have helped us. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Without having anything specified, I had to sort of just go with what the Angels did. They were seemingly Cole or Rendon all along, so I defaulted to that, even though this was a "YOU build the team plan". 

I'm hoping the 2021 Build Your Team thread has a little more structure to it though and inspires some more detailed plans and contingencies for us to consider at the end of next season. This was fun to go back on, given how many permutations we all come up with.

I get it........but you are comparing how the off-season we would do would compare with the Angels but forcing Rendon (whom I like) on me lol. I would have only spent big money on SP. All-in on Cole and Wheeler. Would have gotten outbid on Cole at some point. Shift to Ryu/Madbum/and Keuchel. Pretty sure my team would have been better but not by much. Madbum was a disaster and he isn't going away for a while. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. A man after my own heart, but you've out-done me. Well done, @totdprods. A lot to digest.

I like my Rendon prediction, although it was more wishful thinking as I've always liked Rendon. If I remember correctly, I thought a Rendon/Wheeler combo more potent than Cole alone. 

A lot to digest. I guess the bottom line is that we're all idiots, tend to underrate contracts, but also have good moments.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

I get it........but you are comparing how the off-season we would do would compare with the Angels but forcing Rendon (whom I like) on me lol. I would have only spent big money on SP. All-in on Cole and Wheeler. Would have gotten outbid on Cole at some point. Shift to Ryu/Madbum/and Keuchel. Pretty sure my team would have been better but not by much. Madbum was a disaster and he isn't going away for a while. 

You’re soon to get another crack at it for 2021, and you can lay out contingencies. If Rendon had been a disaster I wouldn’t have ‘forced’ it in, but figured he was such a positive it worked in this exercise. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Wow. A man after my own heart, but you've out-done me. Well done, @totdprods. A lot to digest.

I like my Rendon prediction, although it was more wishful thinking as I've always liked Rendon. If I remember correctly, I thought a Rendon/Wheeler combo more potent than Cole alone. 

A lot to digest. I guess the bottom line is that we're all idiots, tend to underrate contracts, but also have good moments.

It was genuinely surprising and interesting to see how...bad we all were. And how tunnel-vision we get. And I say that with nothing but respect and admiration for all the work and thought we do put into these. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...