Angels GM Search Thread - down to Justin Hollander and Perry Minasian, Minasian is the frontrunner

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

Man .. even the Marlins have a President of Baseball Operations position.  How is it that we are one of the only teams not to utilize the more progressive FO structure?  

If we land Byrnes or LaCava, then we'll be fine, but I feel like we will ultimately end up with a lackluster hire because we are utilizing an archaic structure that is not as appealing to the best baseball minds.

all the best people have interviewed already. there's this friggin annoying narrative that nobody wants the angels job and arte just wants a puppet. none of it is fact based at all. they've got the right guys on the list and a few also rans. hopefully, they don't blow it.

[Yes We Can]

46 minutes ago, ukyah said:

all the best people have interviewed already. there's this friggin annoying narrative that nobody wants the angels job and arte just wants a puppet. none of it is fact based at all. they've got the right guys on the list and a few also rans. hopefully, they don't blow it.

It's only a narrative if people continue to narrate.

[arch stanton]

You know when the Angels will have a President of Baseball Operations? When they hire a sitting GM who that can't give a lateral position so they create that title in order to poach him legally. It won't change his duties but will make for a fancier email sig

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, ukyah said:

all the best people have interviewed already. there's this friggin annoying narrative that nobody wants the angels job and arte just wants a puppet. none of it is fact based at all. they've got the right guys on the list and a few also rans. hopefully, they don't blow it.

hiring Hill would certainly make that narrative more plausible.  

[Warfarin]

8 hours ago, ukyah said:

all the best people have interviewed already. there's this friggin annoying narrative that nobody wants the angels job and arte just wants a puppet. none of it is fact based at all. they've got the right guys on the list and a few also rans. hopefully, they don't blow it.

It's not just the title, though.  Those FOs typically have larger departments - more people involved in scouting, analytics, etc.  The concern, at least to me, is that it is a sign that Arte is not too interested in investing heavily in building out the FO.  That, to me, likely is a deterrent for some of the smartest baseball minds to come here, as they know they wouldn't be able to create the infrastructure necessary to succeed.

We don't know the entire list of who we have interviewed, but the list seems to be missing some people you'd hope to see from the elite draft/develop franchises, like the Dodgers, Rays, etc.  It is not entirely devoid of it, as I see the A's Owens listed.  If he gets the job, then I'll have some hope at what we might be building.

[Docwaukee]

24 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

It's not just the title, though.  Those FOs typically have larger departments - more people involved in scouting, analytics, etc.  The concern, at least to me, is that it is a sign that Arte is not too interested in investing heavily in building out the FO.  That, to me, likely is a deterrent for some of the smartest baseball minds to come here, as they know they wouldn't be able to create the infrastructure necessary to succeed.

We don't know the entire list of who we have interviewed, but the list seems to be missing some people you'd hope to see from the elite draft/develop franchises, like the Dodgers, Rays, etc.  It is not entirely devoid of it, as I see the A's Owens listed.  If he gets the job, then I'll have some hope at what we might be building.

maybe that' closer.  

perhaps that Arte wants someone or a couple of people who are gonna sort of fit in and not want to revamp the whole development system and front office.  We've already got Maddon who we know isn't going anywhere.   Where as most of the guys are likely going to want to bring in all their own people and have their own process.  

or maybe like @Loumentioned.  it could be that they hoping to hear 20 different view points on how to execute one plan or another.  

it would make sense though that they are looking for someone who can work with the existing infrastructure and just do a better job for the major league club.  

That sort of opportunity might not be as appealing to some in that they won't be able to fully put their stamp on things.  

[eligrba]

Someone needs to be checking the calendar at the Four Season's Landscaping facility for any future event bookings by the Angels.  That will provide us with some insight as to when the process might end.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Maybe someone knows this better than I do, but didn't the trend towards having a "President of Baseball Operations" sort of start with Billie Beane? The A's wanted to retain him but they couldn't offer him as much money as Boston so they gave him an ownership stake and the new title. The ownership stake and the title sort of imply a high level of autonomy and an inability to be fired. With this structure in mind I think Moreno might want to date one of these candidates for a few years before putting a ring on it.

[Docwaukee]

15 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Maybe someone knows this better than I do, but didn't the trend towards having a "President of Baseball Operations" sort of start with Billie Beane? The A's wanted to retain him but they couldn't offer him as much money as Boston so they gave him an ownership stake and the new title. The ownership stake and the title sort of imply a high level of autonomy and an inability to be fired. With this structure in mind I think Moreno might want to date one of these candidates for a few years before putting a ring on it.

the key word in this is autonomy.  regardless of the history of the position, do you get the sense that anyone they bring in at any give point is going to be given the level of autonomy that goes along with that title?  

[BTH]

14 hours ago, Warfarin said:

Man .. even the Marlins have a President of Baseball Operations position.  How is it that we are one of the only teams not to utilize the more progressive FO structure?  

If we land Byrnes or LaCava, then we'll be fine, but I feel like we will ultimately end up with a lackluster hire because we are utilizing an archaic structure that is not as appealing to the best baseball minds.

I have the same feeling. They aren't going to use the modern structure because Arte Moreno doesn't like it and isn't willing to use it.

[BTH]

11 hours ago, arch stanton said:

You know when the Angels will have a President of Baseball Operations? When they hire a sitting GM who that can't give a lateral position so they create that title in order to poach him legally. It won't change his duties but will make for a fancier email sig

And until we see Arte Moreno actually hire a former GM, I'm not convinced that he will do so.

The Angels lack of President of Baseball Ops is because of Arte, as he hasn't hired anyone needs the PBO title in order to be poached.

[ukyah]

12 hours ago, Yes We Can said:

It's only a narrative if people continue to narrate.

ok? i don't know what that's supposed to mean. 

people push the same ideas, and it just becomes accepted as fact, when very little of it, if any, is actual fact.

[ukyah]

11 hours ago, Dochalo said:

hiring Hill would certainly make that narrative more plausible.  

i agree that would at least be some evidence that could be fairly interpreted. 

it's probably just me, but i get annoyed of parrots acting like they have an opinion of their own.

[Vlad27Trout27]

it sure has gotten quite here, hopefully it starts picking up again. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

4 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Maybe someone knows this better than I do, but didn't the trend towards having a "President of Baseball Operations" sort of start with Billie Beane? The A's wanted to retain him but they couldn't offer him as much money as Boston so they gave him an ownership stake and the new title. The ownership stake and the title sort of imply a high level of autonomy and an inability to be fired. With this structure in mind I think Moreno might want to date one of these candidates for a few years before putting a ring on it.

The A’s gave Billy Beane an ownership stake because that was a way they could keep him from leaving. As far as I know, though, none of the other PBO’s have that. 
 

I don’t understand the fascination with this. The titles are only related to salary and job-switching. They have nothing to do with the actual duties or structure of the baseball operations dept. 

[Taylor]

2 hours ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

it sure has gotten quite here, hopefully it starts picking up again. 

[beatlesrule]

Going by his history, Moreno doesn't exactly know how to hire the right GM so I'm skeptical of whomever they/he/the FO does bring in.

[BTH]

41 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I don’t understand the fascination with this. The titles are only related to salary and job-switching. They have nothing to do with the actual duties or structure of the baseball operations dept. 

I think people's fascination with this is because the teams that have both a PBO and GM are better run organizations and ultimately have more success than the teams that don't have both.

The teams that currently have a PBO and GM are BOS, CHC, CHW, CLE, MIN, OAK, SF, and STL.

CHC, CLE, MIN, OAK, and STL have had sustained success within the past few seasons. CHW just had their first successful season and look primed to carry it on. BOS and SF were smart and started following these organizations models in the past couple years so that they can build up to be what those other teams have become.

Not to mention that LAD (who is the best example of sustaining success) had a PBO and GM before Zaidi left to run SF. Also, CIN had a PBO and GM before Dick Williams left the organization and they seem to fall in the same category as the CHW.

[BTH]

Also, having both a PBO and GM shows that the owner is willing to spend money in the baseball operations department.

If the Angels get both a PBO and GM, it suggests that Arte has realized that the way he was running the organization hasn't worked and that he is trying what the successful teams have done in recent years.

[Jay]

3 hours ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

it sure has gotten quite here, hopefully it starts picking up again. 

It's quiet because the horse has been beaten to death.

 

[eligrba]

3 hours ago, Trendon said:

I think people's fascination with this is because the teams that have both a PBO and GM are better run organizations and ultimately have more success than the teams that don't have both.

The teams that currently have a PBO and GM are BOS, CHC, CHW, CLE, MIN, OAK, SF, and STL.

CHC, CLE, MIN, OAK, and STL have had sustained success within the past few seasons. CHW just had their first successful season and look primed to carry it on. BOS and SF were smart and started following these organizations models in the past couple years so that they can build up to be what those other teams have become.

Not to mention that LAD (who is the best example of sustaining success) had a PBO and GM before Zaidi left to run SF. Also, CIN had a PBO and GM before Dick Williams left the organization and they seem to fall in the same category as the CHW.

Is it the titles PBO/GM or the people making the decisions that’s important?

[eligrba]

3 hours ago, Trendon said:

Also, having both a PBO and GM shows that the owner is willing to spend money in the baseball operations department.

If the Angels get both a PBO and GM, it suggests that Arte has realized that the way he was running the organization hasn't worked and that he is trying what the successful teams have done in recent years.

You do understand the fundamentals behind running a business?  Arte has been incredibly successful running the Angels. The objectives of fans are not always aligned with the objectives of the business of baseball.

I think people are reading too much into the silence. 

[BTH]

42 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Is it the titles PBO/GM or the people making the decisions that’s important?

It's the people making the decisions that's important, but in order to get the right people to make those decisions, you usually have to pouch those executives from other organizations. That's where the titles come into play, because that (along with offering more money) is how you get those people to join your team.

The Angels haven't hired anyone that would necessitate the PBO title, and that's' the problem. Instead of trying to poach a proven executive, they always go after first time GM's.

[BTH]

40 minutes ago, eligrba said:

You do understand the fundamentals behind running a business?  Arte has been incredibly successful running the Angels. The objectives of fans are not always aligned with the objectives of the business of baseball.

I think people are reading too much into the silence. 

Arte Moreno says he wants to win, yet they haven't done much winning the past 10 seasons. Yes, his objective is to make money first and foremost, but he also wants to win, and he's failed to do that the past decade.

[Lou]

20 minutes ago, Trendon said:

Arte Moreno says he wants to win, yet they haven't done much winning the past 10 seasons. Yes, his objective is to make money first and foremost, but he also wants to win, and he's failed to do that the past decade.

Every owner wants to win.