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Was firing Eppler the right call?


Taylor

Eppler Pole  

93 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you agree with Arte's decision to fire Eppler?



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29 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

5 years is a lifetime. Do you expect the next GM hires to get 6-10 years to make the playoffs? 5 years is plenty to show progress. Eppler didn’t even show a winning record in 5 years. You know what Jerry did in less time? Went to the playoffs and had a 90 plus win season even with Arte hamstringing him with 350 million dollars in contracts to Albert and Hamilton. Excited to see who Arte hires and hope it works out. I’d give them the same 5 year contract and expect them to succeed in that time with a top 5 payroll. The other teams with those types of payrolls did. Eppler handpicked a manager that he groomed that was such an epic failure he was fired after 1 year. 

This is 100% proof that you don’t get it.  You don’t understand the team Jerry took over compared to what he left behind.  Because if you understood it you’d be arguing something completely different. Also fuck the narrative that Arte hamstrung Dipoto with those contracts.  Dipoto had no problem taking credit.  It’s a GMs job to protect the owner from himself, he failed at that. Just like Eppler failed at getting pitching.  

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1 hour ago, Stradling said:

This is 100% proof that you don’t get it.  You don’t understand the team Jerry took over compared to what he left behind.  Because if you understood it you’d be arguing something completely different. Also fuck the narrative that Arte hamstrung Dipoto with those contracts.  Dipoto had no problem taking credit.  It’s a GMs job to protect the owner from himself, he failed at that. Just like Eppler failed at getting pitching.  

Agree you just don’t get it if you did you’d understand that 5 years is plenty. You don’t know what happened with Arte and Dipoto and what happened. But rumors are that Arte was the one mostly involved and that’s all we know. Everything else is speculation. We also don’t know what conversations Eppler had with Arte. 
 

How long has Dipoto been with Seattle? What’s Seattle’s record this year? What’s the Angels? 
 

I don’t care about Eppler or Dipoto neither are employed by the Angels for good reason. But your complete defense of anything Eppler or Angels players for that matter is like clockwork. Ready. Justin Upton had a 711 ops this year. Last year he had a 724 and before that an 808. Look

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16 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Agree you just don’t get it if you did you’d understand that 5 years is plenty. You don’t know what happened with Arte and Dipoto and what happened. But rumors are that Arte was the one mostly involved and that’s all we know. Everything else is speculation. We also don’t know what conversations Eppler had with Arte. 
 

How long has Dipoto been with Seattle? What’s Seattle’s record this year? What’s the Angels? 
 

I don’t care about Eppler or Dipoto neither are employed by the Angels for good reason. But your complete defense of anything Eppler or Angels players for that matter is like clockwork. Ready. Justin Upton had a 711 ops this year. Last year he had a 724 and before that an 808. Look

I thought I would weigh in because we'd had similar types of discussions in the past.  Not on the same topic but just about the conclusions you draw from a single snapshot in time without looking at the whole situation.  And you're doing it again.  

to draw some sort of conclusion that Jerry is doing a better job in Seattle because they beat the Angels by one game this year is just absurd.  Dipoto was given a much different opportunity than Eppler.  It's not even close to the same thing.  

@Stradling doesn't blindly the defend the Angels.  The hill he dies on is when people don't make an effort to put things into perspective and understand context.  

We all agree that Eppler could have done a better job.  He doesn't defend Albert or Maddon and He's not coming to Eppler's defense.  He's defending reason and a lack thereof for how you've drawn your conclusions.  

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5 hours ago, Dochalo said:

what Jerry started with

6 Ways to Buy a New Home Before Selling Your Current House

what he left for Eppler:

Trump Threatens Scorched Earth Policy to Punish California

what Eppler is leaving the next guy:

Partially built house - Stock Photo - Dissolve

 

Hah!  This is perfect and well said.

Eppler inherited several bloated, long-term albatross deals that he couldn't escape from and absolutely nothing in the farm system.

In 5 years, he managed to covert the farm from awful to mediocre without being allowed to conduct a fire sale (this is usually how teams quickly turn around their minor league squads).  While we can blame him for Upton's contract, he's managed to avoid any other long-term albatross deals, while waiting for Pujols' to expire, so at least whoever takes over for him won't have to wait forever for albatross deals to expire.  

The new GM actually will have a decent framework to work with, as the picture above nicely illustrated 🙂

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6 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I thought I would weigh in because we'd had similar types of discussions in the past.  Not on the same topic but just about the conclusions you draw from a single snapshot in time without looking at the whole situation.  And you're doing it again.  

to draw some sort of conclusion that Jerry is doing a better job in Seattle because they beat the Angels by one game this year is just absurd.  Dipoto was given a much different opportunity than Eppler.  It's not even close to the same thing.  

@Stradling doesn't blindly the defend the Angels.  The hill he dies on is when people don't make an effort to put things into perspective and understand context.  

We all agree that Eppler could have done a better job.  He doesn't defend Albert or Maddon and He's not coming to Eppler's defense.  He's defending reason and a lack thereof for how you've drawn your conclusions.  

If Eppler was saddled with terrible contracts so was Jerry. Again I don’t care but Eppler was here for Albert and Hamilton just as Jerry had those two. Albert was a little better Hamilton was still garbage. I get it we look at things differently. Over a 5 year span what the Mariners have spent compared to what the Angels have spent in terms of payroll isn’t that close. In the span that Eppler had been the GM of the Angels he accumulated 332 wins. What Seattle has done under Dipoto is 348 wins. Even with Dipoto basically having a fire sale in there as well. I don’t think either are great GMs but Dipotos record is better. And if you want to throw his record with the same owner and team then it’d be even different. And to the 5 years isn’t enough time to show progress crowd, sure seems like Dipoto was given 5 years and he has a better record than Eppler. And even had a couple winning seasons in there. But whatever none of this matters neither are the GMs of the Angels anymore. 

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9 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Agree you just don’t get it if you did you’d understand that 5 years is plenty. You don’t know what happened with Arte and Dipoto and what happened. But rumors are that Arte was the one mostly involved and that’s all we know. Everything else is speculation. We also don’t know what conversations Eppler had with Arte. 
 

How long has Dipoto been with Seattle? What’s Seattle’s record this year? What’s the Angels? 
 

I don’t care about Eppler or Dipoto neither are employed by the Angels for good reason. But your complete defense of anything Eppler or Angels players for that matter is like clockwork. Ready. Justin Upton had a 711 ops this year. Last year he had a 724 and before that an 808. Look

Like I said, you don’t get it, and you are never going to get it.   It’s who you are.  It’s been explained over and over again.  I’m not defending Eppler I’m defending that five years isn’t enough time to rebuild the worst farm when you have to try to stay competitive because of Trout and you can’t trade any value to stock the farm.  Should we bring up the zero international presence between Stoneman until Eppler?   Nah, it will fall on deaf ears.  

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2 hours ago, Kevinb said:

If Eppler was saddled with terrible contracts so was Jerry. Again I don’t care but Eppler was here for Albert and Hamilton just as Jerry had those two. Albert was a little better Hamilton was still garbage. I get it we look at things differently. Over a 5 year span what the Mariners have spent compared to what the Angels have spent in terms of payroll isn’t that close. In the span that Eppler had been the GM of the Angels he accumulated 332 wins. What Seattle has done under Dipoto is 348 wins. Even with Dipoto basically having a fire sale in there as well. I don’t think either are great GMs but Dipotos record is better. And if you want to throw his record with the same owner and team then it’d be even different. And to the 5 years isn’t enough time to show progress crowd, sure seems like Dipoto was given 5 years and he has a better record than Eppler. And even had a couple winning seasons in there. But whatever none of this matters neither are the GMs of the Angels anymore. 

you're still doing it.  in your post above you even detailed several ways in which they're situations were vastly different.  

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On 9/27/2020 at 8:18 PM, Second Base said:

Yes. Eppler's strength set the team on the right path. He got spending under control, rebuilt the farm system and proved an effective bullpen could be built for cheap. 

And now we need someone that can come in and make the team a winner. Someone that can acquire the pitching Eppler couldn't. Someone willing to trade the prospects Eppler wouldn't. While also keeping payroll in a healthy place.

Someone enlighten me, how does one acquire pitching? Was it Eppler that failed or Arte? Seems like we were outbid for all the main target pitchers last off-season. Is that Eppler's fault or is he given limits from Arte?

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6 minutes ago, Mark PT said:

Someone enlighten me, how does one acquire pitching? Was it Eppler that failed or Arte? Seems like we were outbid for all the main target pitchers last off-season. Is that Eppler's fault or is he given limits from Arte?

I think it had as much to do with location as it did with money.  What I have heard with Keuchel is we didn’t want to go to 3 years with him, which probably was a bad choice.  I mean in two years it will be a good choice, but this year it wasn’t.  

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So right now it’s about 55% say it was the right decision to fire Eppler and 45% say it was not the right decision.

I would be very interested to see how much of the 45% against it is driven by assuming the firing was a unilateral call by the “meddling” Arte (and maybe it was).

I wonder how much of the 45% would not be against it if they found out that there was a consensus among other executives in the organization to move on.

Basically I am curious if this is more or less a “Are you OK with Arte” poll.

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17 minutes ago, Mark PT said:

Someone enlighten me, how does one acquire pitching? Was it Eppler that failed or Arte? Seems like we were outbid for all the main target pitchers last off-season. Is that Eppler's fault or is he given limits from Arte?

Acquiring pitching can happen through a few different avenues. The most straightforward, as you already know is signing it in FA. Eppler was outbid for targets he shouldn't have been outbid for, like Corbin and Wheeler. That may or may not have been his fault, depending on if either had interest in playing out West. But money typically trumps and geographically preference, as we saw with Rendon. So that's at least partly Eppler's fault.

Also Eppler's fault, would be the free agent pitchers he did seem worth the contract. Any way you shake it, Nolasco, Harvey, Cahill and Teheran have been horrible. 

The second way to acquire pitching is to trade for it. Billy to a fault was hesitant to trade any worthwhile prospects. The pitching he did trade for has come in the mold of Patrick Sandoval and Packy Naughton....back end starters, which this team already has a bunch of.

The third would be acquiring pitching via the draft. The only two pitchers he selected early on have been Canning and Detmers, which also happen to be the best two pitching prospects of Eppler's tenure. He drafted well, with Marsh, Adell, Adams, Jackson and even Thaiss. But I don't think anyone would argue they wouldn't rather have a couple pitchers mixed in. 

The fourth would be international free agents. He convinced Ohtani and that's a big win. But he chased upside position players like Alex Ramirez, Raider Uceta, Rainier, Arol Vera and Jose Bonilla, instead of going after pitching. 

Eppler didn't put a priority on pitching and the team suffered for it in the end. He wasn't a bad GM, but I do think his focus on long term hurt the Angels in the short term, and Eppler lacked that certain killer instinct that you see eggers like Dombrowski have, in their willingness to be bold and trade the prospects. And that's the reason why his teams win, and Eppler hasn't won yet.

 

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36 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Acquiring pitching can happen through a few different avenues. The most straightforward, as you already know is signing it in FA. Eppler was outbid for targets he shouldn't have been outbid for, like Corbin and Wheeler. That may or may not have been his fault, depending on if either had interest in playing out West. But money typically trumps and geographically preference, as we saw with Rendon. So that's at least partly Eppler's fault.

Also Eppler's fault, would be the free agent pitchers he did seem worth the contract. Any way you shake it, Nolasco, Harvey, Cahill and Teheran have been horrible. 

The second way to acquire pitching is to trade for it. Billy to a fault was hesitant to trade any worthwhile prospects. The pitching he did trade for has come in the mold of Patrick Sandoval and Packy Naughton....back end starters, which this team already has a bunch of.

The third would be acquiring pitching via the draft. The only two pitchers he selected early on have been Canning and Detmers, which also happen to be the best two pitching prospects of Eppler's tenure. He drafted well, with Marsh, Adell, Adams, Jackson and even Thaiss. But I don't think anyone would argue they wouldn't rather have a couple pitchers mixed in. 

The fourth would be international free agents. He convinced Ohtani and that's a big win. But he chased upside position players like Alex Ramirez, Raider Uceta, Rainier, Arol Vera and Jose Bonilla, instead of going after pitching. 

Eppler didn't put a priority on pitching and the team suffered for it in the end. He wasn't a bad GM, but I do think his focus on long term hurt the Angels in the short term, and Eppler lacked that certain killer instinct that you see eggers like Dombrowski have, in their willingness to be bold and trade the prospects. And that's the reason why his teams win, and Eppler hasn't won yet.

 

So as far as acquiring free-agents, we dont know if his being outbid is his lack of knowing market value or Arte's putting limitations on him, this is what I make of it. 

Drafting really depends on what is available at your draft positions and what your strategy is. Meaning do you take a raw prospect and develop, take the best available player and increase your teams trade assets, or fill your teams needs with whatever acceptable talent is there (in the draft). IF this is the case then what was his strategy? He sucks if his strategy was to draft the best available and use it for trade value as he did not acquire pitchers. WE dont know what limits Arte put on him.

So as far as I can see, we dont have enough info to make an educated opinion on him until we know answers to these questions.  

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When we are talking about insane money, and I mean over $100 million, it is less about getting outbid and more about playing where you want to play.  The Angels wanted Corbin, but he wanted to be back east.  He wanted the Yankees, but they weren’t interested so he went to DC.  So even if Eppler or Arte valued Corbin at $140 million it wasn’t going to cost $141 million to sway him to play on the west coast instead of the east coast.  Even if the Angels valued Cole at $330 million or whatever he got from the Yankees, doesn’t mean you sign him for the same amount.  If what we have read about Keuchel is correct that we wouldn’t offer a 3rd year, then yea, that can be the fault of the GM or owner.

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16 hours ago, Torridd said:

How is he the best GM since Stoneman? I generally use W-L as a criteria and 5 years is a long time to be consistently bad as an organization especially with the money the Angels have. Blame Arte if you want, but he hasn't owned the team just 5 years.

Money the Angels already had tied up when he got here and a farm system he didn't have to help improve the team with in order to compensate for the barren farm.   

If you need a clue how on how those things impacted what Eppler could do, consider this.   The Angels had all of ONE prospect of any merit when he got here.  He turned that prospect into a SS that managed the 35th best WAR total in all of MLB (position players), the last five years combined.   Now imagine if he would have had the assets Dipoto inherited...   BTW, Segura who was traded away, ranks 37th over that same span.  Think maybe the Angels would have done things differently had he been hired in 2012 instead of the smartest guy in the room?    

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4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

..BTW, Segura who was traded away, ranks 37th over that same span.  Think maybe the Angels would have done things differently had he been hired in 2012 instead of the smartest guy in the room?    

I am not at DiPoto fan at all....but I've never been too critical of the Greinke trade. It was a classic overpay at the trade deadline....we all screamed (at least I did) at Stoneman to make a bold move at the deadline and the best we ever got was Alex Ocho...so, I was glad to see DiPoto, for all of the other reasons you can criticize him (and there are many), roll the dice.  It didn't work and keeping Segura would have been great....but sometimes you're the pigeon and sometimes you're the statute, I guess....

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3 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I am not at DiPoto fan at all....but I've never been too critical of the Greinke trade. It was a classic overpay at the trade deadline....we all screamed (at least I did) at Stoneman to make a bold move at the deadline and the best we ever got was Alex Ocho...so, I was glad to see DiPoto, for all of the other reasons you can criticize him (and there are many), roll the dice.  It didn't work and keeping Segura would have been great....but sometimes you're the pigeon and sometimes you're the statute, I guess....

Me either -- that wasn't my point.  The bigger picture is it's very likely Eppler would have gone about it differently.  If he doesn't make the Segura trade then maybe Newcomb is still here or used for something else.  I think it's pretty much a lock that Grichuk isn't included as a throw in to get a 3B who was good at driving in runs (as per Dipoto).

Eppler inherited a wasteland and had zero money.  He didn't spend money the first three years on the job and as he walks out the door he leaves the Angels in much better shape than he got them.  The next guy will get all the atta boys and accolades, but the heavy lifting was already done.

 

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5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Me either -- that wasn't my point.  The bigger picture is it's very likely Eppler would have gone about it differently.  If he doesn't make the Segura trade then maybe Newcomb is still here or used for something else.  I think it's pretty much a lock that Grichuk isn't included as a throw in to get a 3B who was good at driving in runs (as per Dipoto).

Eppler inherited a wasteland and had zero money.  He didn't spend money the first three years on the job and as he walks out the door he leaves the Angels in much better shape than he got them.  The next guy will get all the atta boys and accolades, but the heavy lifting was already done.

 

Freese was a bad trade....a dumb trade....the overall grade for DiPoto is poor, worse than Eppler....focusing on the 2014 playoff appearance, to give DiPoto a higher grade than Eppler, is a bad take also....but I still (kinda) admire the Greinke trade....we just haven't done deadline deals like that.....it was pretty exciting....

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Just now, DMVol said:

Freese was a bad trade....a dumb trade....the overall grade for DiPoto is poor, worse than Eppler....focusing on the 2014 playoff appearance, to give DiPoto a higher grade than Eppler, is a bad take also....but I still (kinda) admire the Greinke trade....we just haven't done deadline deals like that.....it was pretty exciting....

My take on the Grienke trade was that he got absolute max value for Segura.  That doesnt make it a great trade but it was a great return on what amounted to Segura and two nothings.   And I called the other two guys nothings at the time.   I don't see Eppler making that trade given Greinke had gone on record as wanting to test FA and go to the highest bidder, but thats speculation and you know the old line about everyone having an opinion.

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