Was firing Eppler the right call?

[Second Base 8,434]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

Successful bullpen.

I think so. I mean look at how many effective bullpen arms he's found off the scrap heap or brought in for supper cheap. Robles, Noe, JC Ramirez, Buttrey, etc....

Relievers are just so volatile, so in that sense I'm not surprised they suck now. And at the same rate, the only time he's spent on a bullpen arm, Cody Allen, it turned into a disaster. 

I think if I were a GM, I'd try to build a bullpen in the same manner. Get relievers for cheap, and use hard throwing failed starters, like Key Middleton. 

Next one to keep an eye on would be Oliver Ortega. Others coming through the pipeline that I think would make good relievers include Jose Suarez, Jose Soriano and Aaron Hernandez. 

[DCAngelsFan 400]

44 minutes ago, Lou said:

Ok, a lot of people have mentioned Arte's meddling. Other than Pujols, what players on the current roster has this led to such a bad season?

Rendon was a major plus, btw.  

The current roster caveat limits things, to be sure.

The Vernon Wells trade was likely authored by him, the Hamilton signing, likely the GMJ signing, and Pujols, of course.  These things still echo today, whether they're on the team or not.  Aaron Judge, for example, was still on the board when we'd have picked in 2013 but instead lost that pick for the Hamilton signing.  

And of course, firing Ausmus and signing Maddon was probably Arte's idea.  

Not all meddling is "wrong" - but the issue, IMO, is no potential "Beane-caliber" GM will want to work for an owner that under-resources them, interferes with trades out of pique, like the Pederson-Stripling trade, and lead-foots free-agent signings - no matter how well-intentioned the meddling (ask Orioles and "Washington Football Club" fans).  A GM wants the authority and resources to run things.  

Also, look at our front office staff compared to, say, the Dodgers - all of our execs are "business" people - while the Dodgers have "baseball" people

Here, compare these: https://www.mlb.com/dodgers/team/front-office - https://www.mlb.com/angels/team/front-office 

(our list is obviously incomplete - but shows what the team values.)  

There are suggestions and symptoms that the Angels are under-resourced in scouting, drafting and development as compared to top-tier organizations.   

Ultimately the buck stops with Arte.

[Lou 42,616]

I care about this year's team.

[Jay 4,090]

If I owned a Major League baseball team I would probably meddle.

 

[Lou 42,616]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

If I owned a Major League baseball team I would probably meddle.

 

Haha.

No shit. 

[The Ghost of Bob Starr 2,885]

14 hours ago, Stradling said:

 Because there are only 30 of these jobs.  Because we have Mike Trout.  Because we have Albert coming off the books soon.  

Preach!  

[Lou 42,616]

Soto!

[The Ghost of Bob Starr 2,885]

I say bring in Jobu for GM, not the poster here, but the original 12” Jobu.  The Angels are such a dismal organization.  Almost 60 years of failure, with the exception of one winning season and some also-rans. 
 

They gave Ryan good lineups and couldn’t win. They gave Trout good support but a horseshit staff and can’t win. 
 

 

[AngelStew43 296]

Ryan had 2 seasons worth of good lineups, 1978 and 1979.  The rest were terrible.

[Jason 10,774]

Major League baseball is a results based business and Eppler didn't get many positive results. 

[ten ocho recon scout 17,188]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

If I owned a Major League baseball team I would probably meddle.

 

 

5 hours ago, Lou said:

Haha.

No shit. 

Constantly adjusting the thermostat in the clubhouse... buying the brand of soda you like, not what they want...making silly rules like "no barefoot in the kitchen, have to wear slippers"

[Lou 42,616]

5 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

 

Constantly adjusting the thermostat in the clubhouse... buying the brand of soda you like, not what they want...making silly rules like "no barefoot in the kitchen, have to wear slippers"

Mandatory greeting if you're batting under .285 :

[AngelsLakersFan 8,730]

52 minutes ago, Lou said:

Mandatory greeting if you're batting under .285 :

Isn't that what they do towards the dugout when they hit a double?

[T.G. 11,337]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

Mandatory greeting if you're batting under .285 :

Now, THAT'S swagger.

[Torridd 418]

I think the best news in this that I believe Arte will give some money to the guy to get at least two competent pitchers. Not necessarily two As, but I believe the minimum of a B+ and a B-

[Torridd 418]

22 hours ago, DCAngelsFan said:

I voted "no" - not that Eppler is the best man for the job, but the best men are already gainfully employed, and Arte's history of meddling has consequences.

So, "right decision" depends on who he hires to replace  Eppler - could be great, could be a disaster.

How could it be a disaster? I don't think the team will get worse unless we have a slew of injuries.

[Torridd 418]

22 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I've been critical of him recently, but I'm still on the fence. He's easily the best GM we've had since Stoneman, who I think is pretty comparable to Eppler so this could be a disaster if we bring in a Dipoto or Reagins type. 

I think if you look at Eppler's tenure and come to the conclusion that he spent five years putting back together an organization that the previous two GM's decimated while not being the guy to take it to the next level, then I think that's fair. I worry though, that those in positions of power look at the situation as 5 years of a team becoming less and less relevant. If that is the thought process that lead to Eppler's termination then I'm not on board with it.

How is he the best GM since Stoneman? I generally use W-L as a criteria and 5 years is a long time to be consistently bad as an organization especially with the money the Angels have. Blame Arte if you want, but he hasn't owned the team just 5 years.

[Stradling 27,097]

1 minute ago, Torridd said:

How is he the best GM since Stoneman? I generally use W-L as a criteria and 5 years is a long time to be consistently bad as an organization especially with the money the Angels have. Blame Arte if you want, but he hasn't owned the team just 5 years.

No, not really.  

[Torridd 418]

13 hours ago, Lou said:

We're going to make the playoffs.

At least in the next two seasons. I really believe that.

[Warfarin 2,018]

7 hours ago, DCAngelsFan said:

The current roster caveat limits things, to be sure.

The Vernon Wells trade was likely authored by him, the Hamilton signing, likely the GMJ signing, and Pujols, of course.  These things still echo today, whether they're on the team or not.  Aaron Judge, for example, was still on the board when we'd have picked in 2013 but instead lost that pick for the Hamilton signing.  

And of course, firing Ausmus and signing Maddon was probably Arte's idea.  

Not all meddling is "wrong" - but the issue, IMO, is no potential "Beane-caliber" GM will want to work for an owner that under-resources them, interferes with trades out of pique, like the Pederson-Stripling trade, and lead-foots free-agent signings - no matter how well-intentioned the meddling (ask Orioles and "Washington Football Club" fans).  A GM wants the authority and resources to run things.  

Also, look at our front office staff compared to, say, the Dodgers - all of our execs are "business" people - while the Dodgers have "baseball" people

Here, compare these: https://www.mlb.com/dodgers/team/front-office - https://www.mlb.com/angels/team/front-office 

(our list is obviously incomplete - but shows what the team values.)  

There are suggestions and symptoms that the Angels are under-resourced in scouting, drafting and development as compared to top-tier organizations.   

Ultimately the buck stops with Arte.

Bingo - this is the key thing here.  The Dodgers' FO is expansive and specific in their roles. This is what I want for this team.

I actually read that Josh Byrnes is considered a possible candidate.  I would LOVE to see him here.  All those year working alongside Friedman - he'd be the perfect guy to lead this team.

[stormngt 2,798]

8 hours ago, Second Base said:

I think so. I mean look at how many effective bullpen arms he's found off the scrap heap or brought in for supper cheap. Robles, Noe, JC Ramirez, Buttrey, etc....

Relievers are just so volatile, so in that sense I'm not surprised they suck now. And at the same rate, the only time he's spent on a bullpen arm, Cody Allen, it turned into a disaster. 

I think if I were a GM, I'd try to build a bullpen in the same manner. Get relievers for cheap, and use hard throwing failed starters, like Key Middleton. 

Next one to keep an eye on would be Oliver Ortega. Others coming through the pipeline that I think would make good relievers include Jose Suarez, Jose Soriano and Aaron Hernandez. 

Why do some teams always have good bullpens?   Other's like ours is a crap shoot.

If we had a good bullpen this year we would still be playing.

[Second Base 8,434]

29 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Why do some teams always have good bullpens?   Other's like ours is a crap shoot.

If we had a good bullpen this year we would still be playing.

No doubt about that. I wish I knew the answer as to why certain teams always seem to have a good bullpen. The Yankees spent their way into a good pen, and the Dodgers just keep churning out quality pitching. 

I think for me, the equation would be simple. Keep most pitchers as starters, and the ones that flame out around AA, focus on throwing the ball as hard as they can and promote them immediately because their window of effectiveness might only be a year or two. And if you just keep doing that, you'll have a consistent stream of someone new stepping up.  To augment it, any major league starting pitcher that threw 93+ that lost their ability to succeed in a starting role, I'd sign for cheap and put them in the pen, like Eppler did with Bud Norris.

Easiest and cheapest way, I think. 

[zenmaster 1,663]

It's all about drafting and developing but also winning on trades. This opens many doors. Look at the Rays for example. Most people couldn't name 3 guys on their team yet they had the 2nd best record in baseball and almost made the World Series last year. They have a line of young guys waiting to come in and be productive. Also, everyone knows you rarely win a trade with them.

[kevinb 1,500]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

No, not really.  

Yes it really is

[Stradling 27,097]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Yes it really is

I mean if you ignore context then sure.