Was firing Eppler the right call?

[aznhockeyguy]

15 minutes ago, Stradling said:

 Because there are only 30 of these jobs.  Because we have Mike Trout.  Because we have Albert coming off the books soon.  

 

3 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Money and there’s only 30 GM jobs available. If he offers an unemployed GM or someone else a higher position than they have now they’ll take it of course they will. It’s not that hard. 

Valid points, I guess bad experience is still experience.  I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong on this, but with the notable exception of Dipoto, if you don't do very well in your first GM job,  it's very difficult to get another.  Because of this, I would think a GM candidate would think long and hard before coming to work for Arte.  I just think he may have unrealistic expectations which will be very difficult to fulfill. 

[Puget Sound Angel]

5 straight losing seasons.

Cannot build a pitching staff

Wasting Trout's prime.

Makes no sense to keep him around.

[Pujols4MVP]

Well it doesn't matter because of who the owner is but for the sake of the poll i voted no. With how old the Angels owner Arte Moreno is getting, he probably wants to go back to the Reagins method of trading away the farm and going all in every year.

The only thing i hated about Eppler was he didn't like drafting pitchers that much and waited until 2020 to draft one with a high 1st round pick.

Maybe now they'll start drafting pitchers before Trout requests a trade when he's in his 30s.

I also didn't like that Eppler wasted the chance to trade Simmons in 2020 and Calhoun in 2019, since it appears Simmons won't be back.

[Warfarin]

It's hard to say.  Eppler inherited a really bad situation - bloated contracts, "worst farm system in baseball history" per Law or something along those lines.  It was always going to take time to improve the team.  Most rebuilds take several years, and that's with a bunch to sell-off trades, which Billy was never allowed to do by Moreno.

Now, that said, I would say that Eppler did a mediocre job on the whole.  Had he inherited a less awful team, or had he been allowed to sell off for a year or two, then maybe things would be different now - it is hard to say.

He did made some good trades (Simba, Bundy), he did convince Ohtani to sign here, and of course he got Trout to agree to stay here for his playing career.  So certainly, he did some very good things.

On the negative side, his track record of acquiring pitchers wasn't good, and I don't think he drafted particularly well, either.  After 5 years, we should have seen some good young players that he drafted make it into the big leagues, but we haven't really seen much.

I hope he gets a shot elsewhere, because I do think he deserves it, but I think he is probably just an average GM, and we need a stud GM to get this team into contention.

[Lou]

I voted yes to make it 19-19. 

[tdawg87]

It will have little to no impact.

[Lou]

We're going to make the playoffs.

[tdawg87]

22 minutes ago, Lou said:

We're going to make the playoffs.

At some point in the future? You are 100% correct.

[AngelsFaninGA]

I was never really a fan of Eppler but recent years have shown that, yes, things actually can get worse. Our record has gotten progressively worse in the two years post-Scioscia, and there is still plenty of room for the next GM to come in and turn us into the Rangers/Pirates/etc.

[tchula]

I voted yes, but he's no doubt been an upgrade from what we have before.  Yes, he's rebuilt our farm system, but he's also bungled some drafts.  We've had five full drafts under Eppler and we are somewhere in the middle of the pack in terms of minor league depth, and we still don't have any top tier pitching prospects ready to make an impact.  Yes, we signed Ohtani, but I also argue we have completely mismanaged him.  Hats off to Epp for finding some diamonds such as Goodwin and La Stella.  But, we've rolled the dice plenty and come up short with pitching.  I also had to take into consideration his absolute bungling of hiring a manager.  The Ausmus experiment was a complete disaster.   I am not adamant about making a change, and if we kept Epp one year longer I wouldn't have lost sleep.  But I do believe we have reach our ceiling under him, and this outcome was inevitable.  

[kevinb]

8 hours ago, aznhockeyguy said:

 

Valid points, I guess bad experience is still experience.  I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong on this, but with the notable exception of Dipoto, if you don't do very well in your first GM job,  it's very difficult to get another.  Because of this, I would think a GM candidate would think long and hard before coming to work for Arte.  I just think he may have unrealistic expectations which will be very difficult to fulfill. 

Arte may be a difficult owner to deal with. But let’s honestly look at the upside. Arte spends on a top 5 payroll. You will be living in the second largest media market. You have arguably the best if not too 3 player in all of baseball. Hate him or love him Adell was the number 2 ranked prospect in all of baseball. These are all reasons why if Arte offered anyone who’s not a GM currently a job and some who are currently a GM of a club would accept his offer to run the Angels. 

[tdawg87]

35 minutes ago, Gooch said:

Lets stop blaming Arte, he is the owner and he has a right to stick his hand in the cookie jar. Lets not forget who paid Mike Trout and Anthony Rendon. The bottom line is that Billy Eppler is a 2 not 1.

He absolutely does have the right to "stick his hand in the cookie jar" (gross) but that doesn't mean he should. I can do that, but I'm fat so I probably shouldn't be eating cookies anyway, plus my hand might get stuck. I should leave the cookie jar to people who aren't obese and know how to eat properly. Also, lets not forget who negotiated those contracts.

39 minutes ago, Gooch said:

The most important thing that the new GM must do is find a way to properly draft and develop pitching. With the huge contracts we have now there is not 50 or a 100 million to sign big name pitchers. The dodgers have always been good at developing pitching. We need to figure that out !!

It's not quite that simple, but otherwise I agree.

40 minutes ago, Gooch said:

Billy Eppler's free agent pitching signings have been Fuc**ng horrific, he is just not GM material, hope he finds a job with another team but it wont be as the GM. My best advice for you Billy is to not think for a minute that you are GM material.

I agree that the SIGNINGS have been bad, but he has made some solid trades, which is probably the biggest impact a GM can have on their team. Remember, we were all-in on Cole but he went to NY instead. He'll find another GM job.

42 minutes ago, Gooch said:

P.S. take all the scumbag  players with you ahole !!!!

[Angels in 2030]

Only if Arte has someone better in mind and that person wants to join.  If firing just to get someone new, then probably not.  I am assuming Arte has not only identified someone but also agreed upon a deal -- thus yes.

[AngelStew43]

I voted no, to make it 25-25.  I wanted to wait and think about it before I posted anything.  No GM or field manager could have won with our last two starting pitching staffs.  

We also saved 12 out of 25 chances, so we weren't acceptable there, either.  Robles was terrible.  Buttrey had a couple of good games, and then disappeared, and why wasn't Middleton brought back, since the bullpen was awful anyway?  

If we can't convince Bauer to sign here, good luck to the next GM.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

6 minutes ago, AngelStew43 said:

No GM or field manager could have won with our last two starting pitching staffs.  

We also saved 12 out of 25 chances, so we weren't acceptable there, either.  Robles was terrible.  Buttrey had a couple of good games, and then disappeared, and why wasn't Middleton brought back, since the bullpen was awful anyway? 

I don't think many would disagree with you but Eppler was responsible for those pitching staffs that ranked 25th in team ERA each of the last two years.  The next GM hopefully has better luck on one year peanut deals and building a bullpen.

[Jay]

3 hours ago, Lou said:

I voted yes to make it 19-19. 

I voted yes to make it 26-25.

 

[stormngt]

13 hours ago, Second Base said:

Yes. Eppler's strength set the team on the right path. He got spending under control, rebuilt the farm system and proved an effective bullpen could be built for cheap. 

And now we need someone that can come in and make the team a winner. Someone that can acquire the pitching Eppler couldn't. Someone willing to trade the prospects Eppler wouldn't. While also keeping payroll in a healthy place.

Successful bullpen.

[DMVol]

4 hours ago, Lou said:

I voted yes to make it 19-19. 

I think it now goes to the House of Representatives....

[Angel Oracle]

11 hours ago, Stradling said:

 Because there are only 30 of these jobs.  Because we have Mike Trout.  Because we have Albert coming off the books soon.  

And Upton a year after that, meaning $45 million AAV freed up by two years from now.

A ticket of President of baseball ops Dave Dombrowski and GM Logan White would be the best result.  Combine building a MLB winner with building a solid and consistently enough producing farm system.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Blarg]

10 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I think it now goes to the House of Representatives....

28-26 its on the senate floor with filibustering.

[Lou]

Ok, a lot of people have mentioned Arte's meddling. Other than Pujols, what players on the current roster has this led to such a bad season?

Rendon was a major plus, btw.  

[Duren, Duren]

I voted a dispassionate yes. Mainly because of the failure to put together a competent pitching staff. 

The Harvey/Cahill hail Mary symbolizes his approach to pitching. 

His other work with the farm system was good but not great. Trades and signings of non pitchers also good but not great. 

He just didn't do enough to really turn the franchise into either a contender or up and coming youth movement. Lack of firm direction and vision, more ad hoc, stop gap approach. 

Signing Trout however was a big plus, as well as finessing the Ohtani deal. But really, five years is a fair enough body of work. Progress was not being made. Arte wants tangible results soon, and thinks there are people more qualified to do that. 

[Blarg]

8 minutes ago, Lou said:

Ok, a lot of people have mentioned Arte's meddling. Other than Pujols, what players on the current roster has this led to such a bad season?

Rendon was a major plus, btw.  

He meddled and allowed Trout a no trade contract when we could have traded him for a bullpen!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is sarcasm, you nitwits.

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

Successful bullpen.

I think so. I mean look at how many effective bullpen arms he's found off the scrap heap or brought in for supper cheap. Robles, Noe, JC Ramirez, Buttrey, etc....

Relievers are just so volatile, so in that sense I'm not surprised they suck now. And at the same rate, the only time he's spent on a bullpen arm, Cody Allen, it turned into a disaster. 

I think if I were a GM, I'd try to build a bullpen in the same manner. Get relievers for cheap, and use hard throwing failed starters, like Key Middleton. 

Next one to keep an eye on would be Oliver Ortega. Others coming through the pipeline that I think would make good relievers include Jose Suarez, Jose Soriano and Aaron Hernandez. 

[DCAngelsFan]

44 minutes ago, Lou said:

Ok, a lot of people have mentioned Arte's meddling. Other than Pujols, what players on the current roster has this led to such a bad season?

Rendon was a major plus, btw.  

The current roster caveat limits things, to be sure.

The Vernon Wells trade was likely authored by him, the Hamilton signing, likely the GMJ signing, and Pujols, of course.  These things still echo today, whether they're on the team or not.  Aaron Judge, for example, was still on the board when we'd have picked in 2013 but instead lost that pick for the Hamilton signing.  

And of course, firing Ausmus and signing Maddon was probably Arte's idea.  

Not all meddling is "wrong" - but the issue, IMO, is no potential "Beane-caliber" GM will want to work for an owner that under-resources them, interferes with trades out of pique, like the Pederson-Stripling trade, and lead-foots free-agent signings - no matter how well-intentioned the meddling (ask Orioles and "Washington Football Club" fans).  A GM wants the authority and resources to run things.  

Also, look at our front office staff compared to, say, the Dodgers - all of our execs are "business" people - while the Dodgers have "baseball" people

Here, compare these: https://www.mlb.com/dodgers/team/front-office - https://www.mlb.com/angels/team/front-office 

(our list is obviously incomplete - but shows what the team values.)  

There are suggestions and symptoms that the Angels are under-resourced in scouting, drafting and development as compared to top-tier organizations.   

Ultimately the buck stops with Arte.