Angels fire Billy Eppler

[Warfarin]

8 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I am very curious to see if the next GM is also allowed to make a bunch of major infrastructure moves or they just keep a lot of that intact.  

like LaCassa and Swanson.  I do think they should go with what is now the more conventional structure of having a president of baseball ops along with a GM.  

Just bring in a shit ton of smart people and let them work together.  

Agreed.  If Arte really wants to win, he needs to invest heavily in the expansion of the front office.

So Cal is a very desirable place to live.  People would love to move here and work out here.  All Arte has to do is to be more hands off, invest in the infrastructure, and watch success unfold.

I would truly love to see us become like the Dodgers, Rays, etc..

[Ariamus]

10 hours ago, True Grich said:

At least Eppler can now go surfing with Ausmus.

I think Eppler's going to be busy in the front office of some other MLB club in 2021. It won't shock me at all if he gets another high-profile job right away and it would only mildly surprise me if he actually got another GM job right away.

[tdawg87]

You guys are a bunch of dicks.

[Ariamus]

6 hours ago, Angel said:

College near MLB ready arms that dominate hitters are some of the best, like Kumar.  he could be ready in 2021.

Yeah, but Rocker is going to the Pirates...which I guess means he gets traded to whatever is the up and coming contender round about 2027 and then signs with the Yankees for a bazillion dollars ahead of the 2029 season.

[Ariamus]

7 hours ago, wopphil said:

Bottom line is, the team has had five losing years in a row,

Yes, and for this reason alone, firing Eppler is justifiable...

7 hours ago, wopphil said:

Eppler did a bad job bringing pitching into the organization

...and this is the biggest reason the Angels have had five losing years in a row.

7 hours ago, wopphil said:

the farm is only marginally improved from where it was when he got here

On this, you are wrong...sorry to say it. The farm system is not marginally improved. It is GREATLY improved. It is hard to calculate the depths of the bottomless pit that was the Halos' farm system in 2015. At that time, the Angels did not have a single player in the top 100 prospects in baseball and that had never happened before. Their highest ranked prospect then was Sean Newcombe and he was gone a month or so into Eppler's tenure. Keith Law famously said that it was not only the worst farm system at the time, it was arguably the worst farm system of all time. It's not great right now; 16th according to Baseball America. But that's still huge improvement from where it was five years ago.

7 hours ago, wopphil said:

At best, Eppler was an average GM. 

I'm generally in the camp that Eppler is a pretty sharp guy who was hamstrung by an intrusive owner who also limited him financially for the first three years of his tenure. But I think that saying he was average with the Halos is probably a little generous. Definitely below average...

[Ariamus]

6 hours ago, ukyah said:

i love how the angels are somehow guaranteed to win 1-2 rings if they decimate the farm. 

i kind of remember how albert was going to be great for the first half, then be a burden in the end, but it would be worth it if the angels won 1-2 world series.

i also really enjoyed the 1-2 parades we had under dipoto when he torched the farm system for the major league club.

having said that, i've personally seen the marlins do it twice and the padres almost did it in kind of in 98. at least the marlins were smart enough to sell everybody off after each championship. i suppose we could do that maybe.

Exactly this is what scares me about Dombrowski. Winning is hard...extremely hard. Even when you have a rock-solid organization that's packed to the gills with talent at all levels, winning it all is hardly guaranteed. For proof, we need look no further than the club 30 miles or so up the 5.

We know DD's modus operandi. He's going to trade away youth to bring in impact players to try and build a "win now" team around Trout, Rendon, and Maddon. He may succeed but chances are that he will not because, as I already said, winning is very hard. The, five years from now, he'll be fired, Trout's career will be over, and we'll all still be reminiscing about the halcyon days of 2002.

[Tyler]

Didn’t mind Eppler at all, but his lack of execution in fielding a pitching staff for so many years was inexcusable. 
 

There is a ton of interest for the Angels GM door—for obvious reasons. 
 

I do wish he would have stepped down to Assistant GM because he would have been perfect for that. 
 

Insert Dave D.

 

[angelsnationtalk]

12 hours ago, Dochalo said:

there's two other things that I think play into this as well.  

first, Arte is 74 years old.  Maybe some of our more 'senior' members can comment on this but I've seen family members change their mentality when they get into their 8th decade.  Mortality definitely plays a role in my opinion.  He knows he's not going to be around forever.  

second, I think Arte is kinda old school at heart.  And he's more about people than process.  He's not looking for creativity or people who think outside the box.  He wants street cred and he trusts those who have been around the block and had success.  He sees that Stoneman and Scioscia were rocks that he could rely on.  He's got LaRussa in his ear now.  He's tried being more progressive with Dipoto and Eppler but likely views those as experiments that haven't worked.  He canned Ausmus after a year and brought back Maddon.  

He's a cronyist at heart.  He's tried it differently but I think he's headed back to what he believes is tried and true.  That's why I have no doubt he'll bring in Dombrowski.  

Arte is gonna force his directive on whoever.  It's probably better than it's someone with a track record and a pretty damn good brain for baseball than some newb who's gonna get pushed around.  If anyone thinks that the next guy is gonna be allowed to continue to 'build' over the next 3-4 years, then they are delusional.  

So why not get the guy who's shown the ability to take what he's given and turn it into a winner?  On top of that, I think Dombrowski has the best change of keeping Arte a bit more patient than some guy who's never had the job.  

Personally, I would have preferred Eppler getting to stay, but I actually think Dombrowski could be a better fit than people think in keeping Arte where he needs to be and actually paying attention to what's best for the franchise long term.  

Nailed it. 

The only bit of caution I have is Dombrowski isn't afraid to overlook the farm to get the "win now" results. Putting "Dombrowski" and "long term" sometimes doesn't mix. 

But like i've said before, if that means getting Trout a ring then count me in. 

[UndertheHalo]

Quite a jump between making the team competitive and the team winning a dang ring.  The Angels should focus on long term sustainable success so they have a shot most years.  This requires a productive and effective development system.  I thought that’s what the new direction was when they hired Eppler.  We’ll see now. 

[UndertheHalo]

We’ve watched the team be shitty for a decade now.  They finally have a modest farm system.  Speaking for myself, I can accept the slow build.  What will really bother me is going back to the 2011-2012 situation which in a few years results in the 2016 situation.  Fuck that.  Disaster. 

[Ariamus]

32 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Quite a jump between making the team competitive and the team winning a dang ring.  The Angels should focus on long term sustainable success so they have a shot most years.  This requires a productive and effective development system.  I thought that’s what the new direction was when they hired Eppler.  We’ll see now. 

This is not the Dave Dombrowski way. If he is the guy, one should not expect this. His way is to mine the farm system for assets to use in acquiring established players and so pay for established players through free agency.

DD's way worked in Miami when Wayne Huizenga let him spend stoopid money for free agents and they won a World Series. It didn't work in Detroit after that. Even though they were hugely successful for the better part of his tenure there, they fell short of winning it all and entered a period of destitution the last few years that's even worse than the Angels' own struggles. And, while he did win a title in Boston, he walked into a ready-made winner with a plethora of talented youngsters and he really didn't have to do much to crack the World Series code.

So we can't expect he'll change if he does wind up being the guy. Now, it's possible that he's not the guy but I just don't see it. Moreno's hired three noobs in a row in Reagins, Dipoto, and Eppler. I can't see him going to that well one more time, especially with an old-school guy with a lot of credibility the likes of LaRussa whispering in his ear.

[beatlesrule]

1 hour ago, Ariamus said:

And, while he did win a title in Boston, he walked into a ready-made winner with a plethora of talented youngsters

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

We’ve watched the team be shitty for a decade now.  They finally have a modest farm system.  Speaking for myself, I can accept the slow build.  What will really bother me is going back to the 2011-2012 situation which in a few years results in the 2016 situation.  Fuck that.  Disaster. 

If we look at this team being “shitty” for a decade then we have championship expectations and not simply being competitive.  

[Dtwncbad]

When do you predict the Angels will install a new GM?

From all the headlines out there, it looks like they are going to try to jam in Marty Barrett before Nov 3?  And evidently some people are really pissed that Jon Garland didn’t get a fair look a few years ago?

[Stradling]

12 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If we look at this team being “shitty” for a decade then we have championship expectations and not simply being competitive.  

I don’t mean to harp on this, and I get it the last 5 years have been horrible.  But we were 60+ games over .500 the 5 years prior to that.  

[UndertheHalo]

17 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I don’t mean to harp on this, and I get it the last 5 years have been horrible.  But we were 60+ games over .500 the 5 years prior to that.  

We’ve been bad man.  Fine.  I mis spoke about the whole decade.  But for most of the decade we haven’t been meaningfully competitive and have mostly just been bad. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

And my larger point.  About pushing in all the chips to try and force open a win window will probably just screw up everything like it did then.  The Astros didn’t trade everything to win their championship.  The Dodgers are very deliberate with their use of minor league assets.  I want the Angels to follow that model.  Invest in and develop the farm.  Trout knew what was getting into when he signed.  And good for him.  It’ll mean a lot more if they can do it.  

[Dtwncbad]

6 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

And my larger point.  About pushing in all the chips to try and force open a win window will probably just screw up everything like it did then.  The Astros didn’t trade everything to win their championship.  The Dodgers are very deliberate with their use of minor league assets.  I want the Angels to follow that model.  Invest in and develop the farm.  Trout knew what was getting into when he signed.  And good for him.  It’ll mean a lot more if they can do it.  

What tells you the next GM will “push all the chips in” and screw up everything?

It is time to try to win, so the team will have to make some moves that are not all about being stacked 6 years from now.

Why do fans automatically think this means they will trade Adell and Jordan Adams for Lance Lynn?

Can people just relax and let’s see what they do?

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

What tells you the next GM will “push all the chips in” and screw up everything?

It is time to try to win, so the team will have to make some moves that are not all about being stacked 6 years from now.

Why do fans automatically think this means they will trade Adell and Jordan Adams for Lance Lynn?

Can people just relax and let’s see what they do?

I’ve said several times that we’ll see what they do.  But everyone keeps talking about Dombrowski.  His recent history is what it is.  This isn’t a guy that comes in to install and grow development systems.  If they hire him, obviously we need to see what he does. 

[Blarg]

His recent history is to do what ownership asked of him then released for the long term outcomes. It is entirely up to the ownership as to what Drombrowski can do. What he can't do is blow past the luxuary cap like he did in Boston. 

[Stradling]

I’d say a guy like Dombrowski has proven he could not just win now but draft and develop as well.  He also has enough cache that if Arte would listen to anyone you’d have to think it would be him. 

[Dtwncbad]

7 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’ve said several times that we’ll see what they do.  But everyone keeps talking about Dombrowski.  His recent history is what it is.  This isn’t a guy that comes in to install and grow development systems.  If they hire him, obviously we need to see what he does. 

“His recent history. . . “

To me, it seems pretty reasonable to conclude that Dombrowski is at the point in his career when he simply has the ability/experience to execute whatever plan the owner wants.

So I can’t be overly concerned that the next GM is Dombrowski specifically.

Dombrowski is as good a bet as any to execute transactions that fit the assignment, whatever that actual assignment is.

[Dtwncbad]

I don’t want a freshman GM at this point.  I want experience.  Lots of it.

[angelsnationtalk]

I wonder how FA players feel when Dombrowski approaches them? 

Does anyone think this could help if Angels started negotiating with someone like Bauer? Would players gravitate more toward Dombrowski and his approach/track record? 

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I wonder how FA players feel when Dombrowski approaches them? 

Does anyone think this could help if Angels started negotiating with someone like Bauer? Would players gravitate more toward Dombrowski and his approach/track record? 

They “gravitate more” toward money.