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Holy Hell, Trevor Bauer!


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2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

I think what happened was they saw guys like Jam Jones who were on a solid trajectory dong it in a traditional way... Then he was asked to chase launch angle and sees his game fall apart only to rebound once he reverted to previous swing. 

Moving Jones from center field to 2nd base messed with his hitting as well. At Inland in 2018 it wasn't as much as a swing change as it was spending so much time learning a complex position that required teamwork and split second timing.

His fielding was poor, footwork all wrong, coverage on balls up the middle, who covers, exchange on double plays, when to clear out to let the SS handle it alone, all of these were not instinctive skills. I talked to him a couple times after games and it was obvious he was struggling to adapt and since the game is all about confidence it carried over to the batters box. 

I felt they moved him to AA too soon that year. His bat never came around and the game looked like it was moving too fast for him on the field. He worked his butt off the better himself at the position and along the way, I'm sure you are right, the launch angle approach was tried and a complete failure. Some players are the hitters they are. Jones has a pretty nice swing when he approaches the at bat for ball control rather than power. 

Like most of the Angels younger talent in the minors he is at an age he can still break out. Losing a year to Covid only stalled his advancement but I think he can still make the majors by 25. 

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This is really, really gay. It's January 11th you fuckin attention whore. Sign with somebody.

🧸🥞👀

Nicely done @John Taylor  

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Mark Feinsand did a review of Bauer compared to Cole and Strasburg last year. They're closer over recent history than I realized. 

This one particularly was notable due to the fact it isn't at all a small sample size.

Feinsand also notes that in 2019 (the meh season between 2018 and the short 2020, 

"A look at Bauer's record shows a Cy Young Award-caliber 2018 season (2.21 ERA over 175 1/3 innings for the Indians) during which he made his first All-Star team, followed by a dip in '19 (4.48 ERA with the Indians and Reds) caused in part by a lingering right ankle injury that he pitched through. Then came '20, when Bauer was the best pitcher in the NL, resulting in a landslide win in the Cy Young Award vote."

And,

"Bauer's ability to take the ball every five days -- or every four days, if he has his way -- has been one of his greatest attributes. He's spent a minimal amount of time on the IL during his career, though had he sat out and allowed his ankle to heal after injuring it in late-April 2019, he might not have that bloated ERA on the back of his baseball card. Bauer had a 1.99 ERA in his first six starts that season, then posted a 5.07 mark after the injury."

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13 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Mark Feinsand did a review of Bauer compared to Cole and Strasburg last year. They're closer over recent history than I realized. 

This one particularly was notable due to the fact it isn't at all a small sample size.

Feinsand also notes that in 2019 (the meh season between 2018 and the short 2020, 

"A look at Bauer's record shows a Cy Young Award-caliber 2018 season (2.21 ERA over 175 1/3 innings for the Indians) during which he made his first All-Star team, followed by a dip in '19 (4.48 ERA with the Indians and Reds) caused in part by a lingering right ankle injury that he pitched through. Then came '20, when Bauer was the best pitcher in the NL, resulting in a landslide win in the Cy Young Award vote."

And,

"Bauer's ability to take the ball every five days -- or every four days, if he has his way -- has been one of his greatest attributes. He's spent a minimal amount of time on the IL during his career, though had he sat out and allowed his ankle to heal after injuring it in late-April 2019, he might not have that bloated ERA on the back of his baseball card. Bauer had a 1.99 ERA in his first six starts that season, then posted a 5.07 mark after the injury."

Pass on him.

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Salary aside, I just don't see him fitting with the way this org carries itself. I don't think the Angels have ever really been a team built around strong individualistic personalities recently, especially since Arte bought the team. Vlad? Quiet. Trout? Quiet. Rendon? Quiet. Pujols had some swagger and an identity, but overall, of all the stars in baseball the last two decades, he too was pretty dull. Hamilton is sort of the outlier and whoo boy.

Certainly part of that could just be the Angels haven't had players who carried themselves that way, but for the most part, this team has had a stay-to-yourself, team-first identity. I'm just not sure Bauer's attitude would mesh with that just in the early stages of free agency courting, and even more so if he was on the team. 

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24 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Salary aside, I just don't see him fitting with the way this org carries itself. I don't think the Angels have ever really been a team built around strong individualistic personalities recently, especially since Arte bought the team.
 

There aren't that many "strong individual personalities," in baseball, period.

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Here's an idea: Let's follow our advice and pass on Bauer. Price is clearly out of reach.

Lets instead sign someone really reliable and certain to be healthy like Paxton and Richards.

Fast forward  to June where everyone designated for opening day rotation but Bundy is on the IL.

Everyone blames Minasian for not acquiring starting pitching. 

Good plan, guys. 

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2 hours ago, totdprods said:

Salary aside, I just don't see him fitting with the way this org carries itself. I don't think the Angels have ever really been a team built around strong individualistic personalities recently, especially since Arte bought the team. Vlad? Quiet. Trout? Quiet. Rendon? Quiet. Pujols had some swagger and an identity, but overall, of all the stars in baseball the last two decades, he too was pretty dull. Hamilton is sort of the outlier and whoo boy.

Certainly part of that could just be the Angels haven't had players who carried themselves that way, but for the most part, this team has had a stay-to-yourself, team-first identity. I'm just not sure Bauer's attitude would mesh with that just in the early stages of free agency courting, and even more so if he was on the team. 

Sure, but the counter is the baggage of players the Angels have had no problem employing. 

Josh Hamilton
Vernon Wells
Jose Guillen

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2 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

Here's an idea: Let's follow our advice and pass on Bauer. Price is clearly out of reach.

Lets instead sign someone really reliable and certain to be healthy like Paxton and Richards.

Fast forward  to June where everyone designated for opening day rotation but Bundy is on the IL.

Everyone blames Minasian for not acquiring starting pitching. 

Good plan, guys. 

As soon as the Angels go on a 3-game losing streak, people will blame Minasian no matter what he does.

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8 minutes ago, Taylor said:

As soon as the Angels go on a 3-game losing streak, people will blame Minasian no matter what he does.

Nahhhhh we usually hold off until midseason to start blaming the GM. Every loss up until then is on Maddon.

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4 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Sure, but the counter is the baggage of players the Angels have had no problem employing. 

Josh Hamilton
Vernon Wells
Jose Guillen

Vernon didn’t really have an attitude or character issues though. Jose was Arte’s first or second winter. 

Josh was a mess. 

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20 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Sure, but the counter is the baggage of players the Angels have had no problem employing. 

Josh Hamilton
Vernon Wells
Jose Guillen

2 of those 3 wouldn't have been worth their contracts from day 1 even if they were the nicest humans that ever lived.

Guillén was a victim of his issues.

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On 1/11/2021 at 11:42 AM, Blarg said:

Moving Jones from center field to 2nd base messed with his hitting as well. At Inland in 2018 it wasn't as much as a swing change as it was spending so much time learning a complex position that required teamwork and split second timing.

His fielding was poor, footwork all wrong, coverage on balls up the middle, who covers, exchange on double plays, when to clear out to let the SS handle it alone, all of these were not instinctive skills. I talked to him a couple times after games and it was obvious he was struggling to adapt and since the game is all about confidence it carried over to the batters box. 

I felt they moved him to AA too soon that year. His bat never came around and the game looked like it was moving too fast for him on the field. He worked his butt off the better himself at the position and along the way, I'm sure you are right, the launch angle approach was tried and a complete failure. Some players are the hitters they are. Jones has a pretty nice swing when he approaches the at bat for ball control rather than power. 

Like most of the Angels younger talent in the minors he is at an age he can still break out. Losing a year to Covid only stalled his advancement but I think he can still make the majors by 25. 

Probably the most detailed summary of Jones' struggle in the upper minors that I've seen. 

The launch angle revolution appears to be losing stream thankfully. Some guys it helps, some it doesn't. It hurt Jones and Ward, helped Thaiss and Walsh.

It's worth trying, but not worth changing everything you've adopted throughout a lifetime of baseball.

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Bauer headache
3:23
I just don't think Bauer is worth all this attention and holding up the market. Am I wrong?
 
Steve Adams
3:25
I don't think Bauer is holding up the market. As for whether he's worth the attention -- you can draw your own conclusions about how he conducts himself and his desire to build himself and Momentum as a brand.

But as an actual pitcher, he's a lot better than most fans give him credit for. As I said earlier, I don't care what Bauer did when he was 24-26 and figuring out how to pitch in the Majors. He has clear ace-caliber stuff, two ace-caliber seasons in the past three years and a strong overall track record over the past half-decade. Maybe he's not a Cy Young contender every year, but he's a pretty clear No. 1/2 starter to me, and his openness to a short-term, high-AAV contract makes him particularly interesting.
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1 hour ago, beatlesrule said:
Bauer headache
3:23
I just don't think Bauer is worth all this attention and holding up the market. Am I wrong?
 
Steve Adams
3:25
I don't think Bauer is holding up the market. As for whether he's worth the attention -- you can draw your own conclusions about how he conducts himself and his desire to build himself and Momentum as a brand.

But as an actual pitcher, he's a lot better than most fans give him credit for. As I said earlier, I don't care what Bauer did when he was 24-26 and figuring out how to pitch in the Majors. He has clear ace-caliber stuff, two ace-caliber seasons in the past three years and a strong overall track record over the past half-decade. Maybe he's not a Cy Young contender every year, but he's a pretty clear No. 1/2 starter to me, and his openness to a short-term, high-AAV contract makes him particularly interesting.

Not sure on the first point. While Bauer is likely to have few serious suitors (2-4 at most, I should think), there are teams still waiting on him before committing to a secondary option. Those secondary options are looking for more suitors, so they may be waiting on Bauer. 

As to the second, I think he's absolutely right and I think Angels fans are ignoring this by putting too much emphasis on 2019. Look back at the post where I quoted from Feinsand's mlb.com article. He was playing through an injury in 2019 and his last three years overall are still *really* good. 

I'm not sure he's worth the highest aav ever, even allowing for prices naturally rising each year and the fact he'll be getting fewer years. At the same time, Angels fans thinking he's only worth 4-5 years at 25 are delusional. Not only is he virtually certain to get a minimum of 150 (probably 180 or more, and 200+ is not impossible), he is also worth that much based on what he's shown over the last three seasons. 

At some point, we have to be willing to overpay to actually acquire genuine pitching talent or stop crapping on the front office for buying scraps. Doing both is just unrealistic. 

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