Holy Hell, Trevor Bauer!

[tdawg87]

14 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I agree with everything you've written but I would encourage you to read that article if you haven't and ask yourself the same questions.  

Normally I would go along with the 'good teams have good chemistry' mantra, but adding Bauer's personality to any clubhouse is a significant risk and a very very important consideration here.  

I have been on the Bauer train but man,  I just don't know now.  

Tbh there's absolutely no chance I'm reading all that. Hell I was skimming through it and getting bored. 

Is there a particular issue that should be addressed? To me it just looks like he's an opinionated douche who thinks he's smarter than everyone else. That sounds like 75% of Angelswin.

[Revad]

54 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

this is long but worth reading for anyone in the 'bauer is the type of guy the Angels need'  camp.  Or anyone else really.  

I can appreciate the fact that he's honest about who he is, but I can certainly see why people don't like him.  Frankly, after reading this, I don't really like him.  

He's a really good player and if he ends up on the Halos, I'll root for him to do well but I can totally understand passing on paying this guy 150+ mil and having to deal with him for the next several years.  

Maybe he's not that bad of a guy but he doesn't seem like a good one.  

Sheldon Cooper is one thing but a multimillionaire immature Sheldon as an adult might be a bit much, and as Dochalo says above clubhouse stuff is a big consideration.  If I could meet him in person I would still wonder how much was product/public self.  How will he present once he has the contract in the LA market?  
 

Minasain surely has several paths he’s considering, I imagine something like a flowchart or dartboard.  I think he’ll quit waiting on Bauer when he sees the right direction or deal.

 

(The draft board thing-never tried it or been part of the process- if it’s being done here someone let me know)

Edited January 2, 2021 by Revad

[Erstad Grit]

Yeah.......  I want an ace but now thinking JR, Odorizzi, and Musgrove > Bauer

I can see how Bauer would rub people the wrong way. 

[Revad]

8 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

you are fired from being the backseat GM job

Asking for a friend, is a backseat GM like a wingman that actually gets you laid?

[T.G.]

I read that article a while back.

He’s given the public a view of who he is and I don’t have any issues with that. 

The dude can pitch. So what if he’s different and marches to a different drummer. It’s not like he’s a criminal or a wife beater. 

Any team would be lucky to have him.

Not everyone has to be like Mike Trout. I love the way Trout carries himself, but there’s nothing wrong with a guy who chooses to engage with fans in a different way.

[Revad]

Trout is mature and respectful.  Bauer isn’t Trout but if he was working with us he would be usefully in plenty of ways.  Including marketing.

[Revad]

Imagine all available players on a dartboard.  Put them in categories of your choosing but one might be consistently performing over the last three years, upside another good category, affordability or maybe fit within the culture you’re favoring- like that.  You have two darts maybe three.  Who knows what’s best, but if you don’t bet you can’t win.

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, Revad said:

Imagine all available players on a dartboard.

The last several years. 

[Docwaukee]

4 hours ago, T.G. said:

I read that article a while back.

He’s given the public a view of who he is and I don’t have any issues with that. 

The dude can pitch. So what if he’s different and marches to a different drummer. It’s not like he’s a criminal or a wife beater. 

Any team would be lucky to have him.

Not everyone has to be like Mike Trout. I love the way Trout carries himself, but there’s nothing wrong with a guy who chooses to engage with fans in a different way.

the point I'm making is that it doesn't matter whether you or I or anyone else around here have issue with Trevor Bauer.  It's whether the rest of the team does and the positive or negative impact that might have on their success.  

like I said, I'd root for him to do well, but I don't think he's a very good guy.  Not a criminal.  And it doesn't matter what I think of him.  But I do have concerns that his talent would be offset by his personality.  Maybe not wholly, but enough to where his value goes down.  It's already going to be hard to stomach paying him what he's going to get on an AAV.  Now potentially subtract value because he's disruptive.  I'm glad that's not my decision.  

Any team that pays him the market price will get him.  That's not luck.  

There are tons of guys who don't engage well with fans yet are good teammates and vice versa.  And everywhere in between.  

He social media garbage is just that.  Kinda fun.  Keeps things interesting but worthless in terms of what it actually means to a team winning or losing.  

You don't have to be a criminal in order to be a clubhouse cancer.  

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

He social media garbage is just that.  Kinda fun.  Keeps things interesting but worthless in terms of what it actually means to a team winning or losing.  

You know what isn't worthless in terms of what it actually means to winning or losing?

A Cy Young Award.

[Revad]

3 minutes ago, Lou said:

You know what isn't worthless in terms of what it actually means to winning or losing?

A Cy Young Award.

In a shortened season.  I can’t really see Arte dealing with Bauer, but That risk has potential, high upside.

[Lou]

Is there any evidence that Bauer is a clubhouse cancer? 

[Lou]

For the record, Trout is boring as f*ck.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

You know what isn't worthless in terms of what it actually means to winning or losing?

A Cy Young Award.

nice cherry pick from my post when I explained that his talent is definitely worth something but does his presence detract from some of that value?  

I have no idea and I'm glad it's not my choice to decide that.  If they sign him then I presume the Angels don't think so.  If he's an Angel, I'll root for him to do well and help the team.  

I don't know if there is evidence that he's a cancer beyond what I read in the article and I'm not sure it's actually evidence.  Just stuff some of his teammates have said about him.  I've never been in a clubhouse and watched the dynamic but Minasian seems to think it's important so he's gonna consider all the things that Bauer brings to the table.  

Frankly, there were some insinuations that if players had just listened to Trevor instead of some of the coaches, it might have been helpful.  Who knows.  Not sure how that sits with the others around him.  

I have my own reasons to not think too highly of him based primarily on a snap judgement from the article.  And again, my opinion doesn't matter.  I would also imagine that I might not think too highly of certain other baseball players if they were as forthcoming and open about who they were for everyone to see.  

 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

For the record, Trout is boring as f*ck.

to the media maybe.  no one on here really knows what he's like in person or in the clubhouse.  Just like we really don't know Bauer and can only go by what they choose to reveal to us.  

[tdawg87]

I think this is a valuable discussion and I definitely always appreciate @Dochalo's takes. 

And yeah, it doesn't matter what we think or what we are ok with. It's about what the team thinks.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say everyone on the team would be absolutely ecstatic to get him. I'm sure they're at least aware on a surface level about his "behavior". Hell Trout even tagged him in that "Excited for 2021" instagram post. But obviously, that could sour real quick if his shit gets old. 

As Lou said though, there's no evidence that he's a "clubhouse cancer". One can be a douche and not be someone that everyone on the team hates. Hell in that article there were 3 guys from Cleveland who praised him. 

I'm sure Minasian knows more than any of us and will proceed accordingly. And like I said I would be completely naive if I didn't realize the importance of having a team that's all on the same page without any distractions.

BUT, at the cost of significantly improving the team on the field? I'm not sure we should be completely passing over guys because they might be c*nts. We need to win. Sometimes that means not everyone gets along. Unless Fletcher (I can't tag him on this piece of absolute fuckshit of a phone) can say otherwise, it would seem we haven't had any significant clubhouse issues since, maybe Hamilton? Which coincidentally was the last time we made the playoffs. Getting along and being a "family" has got us jack shit in 6 years.

 

[halonatic13]

2 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I think this is a valuable discussion and I definitely always appreciate @Dochalo's takes. 

And yeah, it doesn't matter what we think or what we are ok with. It's about what the team thinks.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say everyone on the team would be absolutely ecstatic to get him. I'm sure they're at least aware on a surface level about his "behavior". Hell Trout even tagged him in that "Excited for 2021" instagram post. But obviously, that could sour real quick if his shit gets old. 

As Lou said though, there's no evidence that he's a "clubhouse cancer". One can be a douche and not be someone that everyone on the team hates. Hell in that article there were 3 guys from Cleveland who praised him. 

I'm sure Minasian knows more than any of us and will proceed accordingly. And like I said I would be completely naive if I didn't realize the importance of having a team that's all on the same page without any distractions.

BUT, at the cost of significantly improving the team on the field? I'm not sure we should be completely passing over guys because they might be c*nts. We need to win. Sometimes that means not everyone gets along. Unless Fletcher (I can't tag him on this piece of absolute fuckshit of a phone) can say otherwise, it would seem we haven't had any significant clubhouse issues since, maybe Hamilton? Which coincidentally was the last time we made the playoffs. Getting along and being a "family" has got us jack shit in 6 years.

 

 

Has anybody watched Major Leagues?  Nuff said!  That team was full of a-holes and they STILL won.  #winningposttostarttheyear2021

[Jay]

Anything new on Bauer?

 

[Junkballer]

He is certainly polarizing and requires special handling by the coaching staff.  This happens to some degree on every club I assume and it doesnt appear that he is an instigator.  I think the gist of Docs ponderings is that you are buying the insular nature of the Bauer bubble along with the arm and that is a factor for Minasian, along with the veracity of his recent vs career performance and compensation package.  Being headstrong in knowing what works for you is likely what got Bauer to this point of performance but there are limits (how many days of rest, how the analytics infrastructure is implemented and working with Callaway, off the top of my head).  Whether he becomes a negative factor in the clubhouse when he butts up against those limits is on Minasian to pre-evaluate and will factor in the overall valuation in his bidding.  Personally, Im on the Sugano +1 and spend on other areas train unless Bauers contract falls far below the purported asking range.

[T.G.]

Hello @Bronson

[Revad]

53 minutes ago, Junkballer said:

He is certainly polarizing and requires special handling by the coaching staff.  This happens to some degree on every club I assume and it doesnt appear that he is an instigator.  I think the gist of Docs ponderings is that you are buying the insular nature of the Bauer bubble along with the arm and that is a factor for Minasian, along with the veracity of his recent vs career performance and compensation package.  Being headstrong in knowing what works for you is likely what got Bauer to this point of performance but there are limits (how many days of rest, how the analytics infrastructure is implemented and working with Callaway, off the top of my head).  Whether he becomes a negative factor in the clubhouse when he butts up against those limits is on Minasian to pre-evaluate and will factor in the overall valuation in his bidding.  Personally, Im on the Sugano +1 and spend on other areas train unless Bauers contract falls far below the purported asking range.

Bauer is a good pitcher, he may turn out to exceptional.  If he would limit himself to pitching... but I just see a product.

[T.G.]

Captain Obvious here... I'm guessing if there are any concerns about his clubhouse demeanor, the Angels wouldn't be having conversations with him. They can go in with their eyes wide open because of the history between Calloway and Bauer and whatever that might have been.

Like I said earlier, the dude can pitch. They'll figure out the rest, obviously.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Captain Obvious here... I'm guessing if there are any concerns about his clubhouse demeanor, the Angels wouldn't be having conversations with him. They can go in with their eyes wide open because of the history between Calloway and Bauer and whatever that might have been.

Like I said earlier, the dude can pitch. They'll figure out the rest, obviously.

Yep, that was my thought about it.  If he is a problem, the team would know about it.  If Calloway has an issue with him, he's a professional and he will be able to weigh the pros and cons.  People change and grow.  I have a vague recollection of some team mates having an issue with him throwing the ball over the wall when he was removed from a game, but since it wasn’t an Angel I wasn’t that interested in it to be honest.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yep, that was my thought about it.  If he is a problem, the team would know about it.  If Calloway has an issue with him, he's a professional and he will be able to weigh the pros and cons.  People change and grow.  I have a vague recollection of some team mates having an issue with him throwing the ball over the wall when he was removed from a game, but since it wasn’t an Angel I wasn’t that interested in it to be honest.  

And honestly, why are these players getting their panties in a bunch over something like that. Just like there are behaviors that can divide a clubhouse there are also reactions that can do the same. Baseball seems uniquely filled with little boy Karens who take offense to the stupidest shit.

[Angelsjunky]

All of these factors need to be weighed in the balance, as far as what sort of offer Minasian makes: How does Bauer's personality gel with the Angels and Maddon? What is his true talent level? 

No one on the Giants complained of Bonds' attitude, as far as I can tell, because he was a giant among boys. Meaning, his talent was so extreme that it offset any attitude issues. But Bauer isn't Bonds. 

We fans don't see the inside of a clubhouse, just the platitudes spouted to the media and, in today's era, the occasional tweet. As some like to point out, real baseball is not fantasy baseball: personality and chemistry matter. So I'm glad that Minasian considers such things, because it just adds to the view that he is "information rich" and considers a variety of factors.