Ward and Walsh, who gets credit?

[Stradling]

So, who gets credit for Ward and Walsh and their performance, Dipoto for drafting them, our system (Eppler) for developing them (they were pretty darn good in AAA), or the coaching staff at Long Beach (Maddon’s staff) for giving them the swing alteration?

[Angelsjunky]

Or maybe the answer is in the question? Gotta give these guys some credit.

[Warfarin]

Combination of all of the above, including the players themselves for being receptive to information and trying to adjust their game to deliver results.

The potential was certainly there, but I'm sure some combination of the FO + coaching staff helped them unlock their talent and start producing results.

And, I would say, it's fairly obvious that Dipoto deserves credit for drafting them, in that if he didn't, they wouldn't even be here to begin with.

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Or maybe the answer is in the question? Gotta give these guys some credit.

I completely agree, because I had written both off as possibly 40 man roster crunch casualties.  But at the end of the day, we want good drafting, good developing and good coaching that can help make adjustments.  Which is why I ask the question.  

[Docwaukee]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

So, who gets credit for Ward and Walsh and their performance, Dipoto for drafting them, our system (Eppler) for developing them (they were pretty darn good in AAA), or the coaching staff at Long Beach (Maddon’s staff) for giving them the swing alteration?

carlos pena was on mlb talking about Walsh's revamped swing.  He gave maddon a ton of credit for essentially revamping his swing when he got to the rays.  

But I agree that everyone gets some credit.  

[AngelsFaninGA]

Arte

[mmc]

No one because it hasn't been proven yet that this is sustainable.

[Second Base]

Maddon has gone on record denouncing the "launch angle revolution", which as you guys already know is the idea of putting the ball in the air. It definitely worked for some guys, Josh Donaldson, Justin Turner and Cody Bellinger come immediately to mind. 

But I think across the board application hurts prospects as often as it helps them. Ward shortened his swing and has focused on driving the ball wherever it is pitched. It's back to basics and the basics work for him. 

For Walsh, it seems to have been the opposite. His leg kick and drifting hands and supercharged his swing. But the encouraging part, at least to me is that he's not uppercutting the ball to lift it. He's simply driving through the pitch and the ball is flying.

I don't know if either is sustainable. If I had to guess I'd say Ward's is, and Walsh's isn't because of the timing it requires. But then again, Harper has used a similar seeing throughout his career and it has worked. But the k/bb ratio is something to keep an eye on for sure. 

I'd give credit to Maddon. Whether he specifically helped them or his philosophy in general. 

[tdawg87]

Let's just say Obama wasn't President when these guys started hitting.

[Angelsjunky]

What makes Walsh and Ward interesting, and why I think many are dubious about the sustainability of their performance, is that they seemed like classic quad-A guys that put up gawdy numbers in Salt Lake, but at an older level that implied they had maxed out and wouldn't be able to translate to the majors beyond bench level. If a 22-year old hit like they did in AAA, we'd expect greatness, and perhaps coupled with some other past disappointments (e.g. Wood, McPherson), we are in the habit of expecting the worst.

But they both really dominated AAA. And I think Stradling is right for looking to find the reason for how they have performed as they have this year. You'd think it would be easy for every player to just re-vamp their swing, but that usually--at the least--takes awhile to be successful, if it ever is.

A book will be formed on them, but it is also rare that players hit as well as Walsh is for a sustained period and not retained at least some of the success. This isn't a hot three-game stretch; he's been doing it for about three weeks.

But again, the numbers will settle down. My guess is that Walsh is more of a .270-.280ish hitter, but I think he'll also walk more, and that the power is real and he'll hit 30+ HR and slug .500+ next year, if given the opportunity.

[kevinb]

Can't it be all three. Dipoto drafted them so he obviously thought they had talent. Eppler kept them in the system so he obviously thought they had talent. The players worked their asses off to become what they are right now so they deserve credit. The coaches and training staff for helping them get there as well. If anyone deserves more credit it's probably the players themselves. But I would praise all parties involved. I didn't think they had it in them. 

[T.G.]

AngelsWin for the tough love.

[Angelsjunky]

5 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Maddon has gone on record denouncing the "launch angle revolution", which as you guys already know is the idea of putting the ball in the air. It definitely worked for some guys, Josh Donaldson, Justin Turner and Cody Bellinger come immediately to mind. 

But I think across the board application hurts prospects as often as it helps them. Ward shortened his swing and has focused on driving the ball wherever it is pitched. It's back to basics and the basics work for him. 

For Walsh, it seems to have been the opposite. His leg kick and drifting hands and supercharged his swing. But the encouraging part, at least to me is that he's not uppercutting the ball to lift it. He's simply driving through the pitch and the ball is flying.

I don't know if either is sustainable. If I had to guess I'd say Ward's is, and Walsh's isn't because of the timing it requires. But then again, Harper has used a similar seeing throughout his career and it has worked. But the k/bb ratio is something to keep an eye on for sure. 

I'd give credit to Maddon. Whether he specifically helped them or his philosophy in general. 

Harper is an interesting comp for Walsh, because he's as feast or famine as it gets. When Harper is hot, he's arguably the most dangerous hitter in baseball. But the problem is that he gets cold. Walsh might stabilize as a lesser version, the main difference being he won't walk as much. I think also he won't get quite as hot as Harper.

[Chuck]

51 minutes ago, Stradling said:

So, who gets credit for Ward and Walsh and their performance, Dipoto for drafting them, our system (Eppler) for developing them (they were pretty darn good in AAA), or the coaching staff at Long Beach (Maddon’s staff) for giving them the swing alteration?

[Chuck]

To answer the question it has to be the coaching staff. They've turned Stassi around, helped Upton snap out of his funk and some others. 

 

[kevinb]

12 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

To answer the question it has to be the coaching staff. They've turned Stassi around, helped Upton snap out of his funk and some others. 

 

Then would you say you would have blamed the coaching staff for Upton's start to the season?

[eligrba]

5 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Then would you say you would have blamed the coaching staff for Upton's start to the season?

No.

[kevinb]

2 minutes ago, eligrba said:

No.

Agreed. Just merely asking the question. 

[Angel Oracle]

12 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Then would you say you would have blamed the coaching staff for Upton's start to the season?

No, because there is always an adjustment period for a new coaching staff.

Bud Black didn’t immediately turn the early 2000s pitching staff around, but eventually they became one of the best by 2002.

[BTH]

I'd give credit to Eppler and the hitting coaches, both in the majors and the minors. Eppler moved Ward off C, and even though he didn't stick at 3B, his offense still blossomed. The hitting coaches throughout the organization have been able to revamp some hitters throughout the organization and they deserve credit for Ward and Walsh, imo.

I'd also credit the guy who scouted and signed Jared Walsh in the 39th round, Chad Hermansen.

[Inside Pitch]

4 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Then would you say you would have blamed the coaching staff for Upton's start to the season?

Upton blamed himself.  Dude flat out said he goofed up the restart of ST

[UndertheHalo]

I would say that Walsh and Ward deserve most of the credit.

[Second Base]

Another way to look at it...

Eppler gets the blame if the team sucks, why not give him the credit when something goes right? Moving Ward off of catcher led to an offensive eruption. Having Walsh take on a two-way role as well as learning the outfield created more opportunities for him. Acquiring Stassi has resulted in a swing change and now we have a young, inexpensive, controllable, solid offensive and defensive catcher. He acquired Rengifo, Buttrey, and Sandoval as prospects and each have shown glimpses of something you can dream on.

Not sure whether or not he should be the GM anymore, but there's definitely some value in many of his personnel decisions. They should just not allow him to sign or pursue FA starting pitchers anymore. He fails to sign the ones he needs to sign and signs the ones he really shouldn't. Other than that, not bad.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Second Base

[ukyah]

7 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Then would you say you would have blamed the coaching staff for Upton's start to the season?

no. the reason why is the coaching staff can't be blamed for a player losing his mojo, but they are paid to help them find it.

[halonatic13]

22 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Let's just say Obama wasn't President when these guys started hitting.