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Worst ever Halos GM  

56 members have voted

  1. 1. Worst ever Halos GM

    • Fred Haney
      0
    • Dick Walsh
      0
    • Harry Dalton
      2
    • Buzzie Bavasi
      4
    • Mike Port
      0
    • Dan O’Brien Sr.
      2
    • Whitey Herzog
      2
    • Bill Bavasi
      0
    • Bill Stoneman
      1
    • J. Pierrepont Reagins
      16
    • Jedi Dipoto
      19
    • Clean Peanut Eppler
      10


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I’m not that old so I don’t remember the older generation GMs the first one I really remember is Stoneman and he helped the Angels win a title so I’d put him as the best. Reagins sucked but I think it was mostly Mike S at the helm then and we drafted Trout so I can’t be too mad at him plus we went to the playoffs a lot. Dipoto for all his shit he gets actually kind of left us with some players Fletcher Walsh is turning into something and we got to the playoffs once with a crazy awesome record. Eppler to me unfortunately seems like the worst of the bunch. His signings haven’t been great. His trades have been mediocre at best. And this team hasn’t sniffed a playoff spot. He had two hirings as manager and one got fired after one year and the other was basically all Arte. We have the greatest player of our generation and this team is an after thought at the moment. You can crush me but as of right now with the product on the field Eppler is who I chose. 

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1 hour ago, Blarg said:

By far Buzzie Bavasi for letting Ryan go to the Astros as a free agent. That cost the Angels multiple World Series bids. 

Mmm....  yeeeaahh... I'm gonna have to disagree.  Even though I was pretty young at the time and probably couldn't pay attention to an inning of baseball. 

Nolan Ryan was amazing. Obviously dominant at times.  His longevity was ridiculous.  He was overrated, though.  He was going into his age 33 season. Even then, I'd imagine that played into it.  There was no way of telling he'd keep it together half as long as he did.  Even then, it wasn't difference making stuff.  They finished far back in 80, 81, and 83.  1984 was Ryan's age 37 season.  In his Astros deal, that was an option year.  Even they were stretching to get it there.   So, maybe he makes a difference in 82 and 84.... if you sign him to that deal.  But it doesn't seem likely that it cost them multiple World Series bids.  Especially because they would have been spending money on him, and maybe not other guys.

Geoff Zahn was older and made about half as much.  He pitched above average baseball from 1982-1985.  His ERA+ was 109, 122, 129, 96 (109 average) .  Nolan Ryan's was 105, 1114, 109, 91.   Nolan Ryan was a better bet to have good years, but the results weren't very different. 

Bavasi was GM for eight years and the Angels reached the playoffs twice.  The first two times they accomplished that.  Could he really be the worst GM they've had?  

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They finished far back because of pitching. They ended up in 2nd place in '84 and '85 because of pitching. They failed in '82 and '86 because of pitching. 

Yes, Zahn was cheap and so was Witt but they didn't have that third great starter that would separate the staff from the league. They had shit like Renko, Goltz, Slaton and a burnt out Tommy John. 

Add Ryan to Witt and Zahn and that staff wins a dozen more games each year. Because you are eliminating a Teheran from the rotation and replacing him with Nolan Fucking Ryan. 

Bavasi fucked up. 

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Sorry Blarg, Ryan was entertaining but he was not going to bring home the ring. 79' was the best chance and he pitched one game in the ALCS and matched Palmer, but ultimately gave up 3 runs.

I used to go to almost every game that Ryan pitched in the 70's, hoping to see a no-hitter. Lots of strikeouts, lots of walks and no run support. Also Ryan was going back to Texas no matter what, that's where he is from and has family, that's why he only played with the Rangers and Astros after his stint with the Angels. There were a lot of articles about how Gene Autry offered quite a bit to keep him in OC, but ultimately realized he was not going to stay.

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It's a tough question because the big unknown is always "how much did ownership tie the GM's hands, or, step in to make executive decisions on FA acquisitions?".

I don't know a lot about GM's prior to Stoneman but Buzzie Bavasi's teams made 1st place in the division twice (both went to ALCS), 2nd twice, and 5/6th four times, so a mixed bag that should not be judged on the Ryan situation.  Reagins was the head of player development under Stoneman and had the benefit of Stoneman's prospect hoarding, so at least he had a concept of whole organizational success.  He was also handcuffed by a very active owner with an extremely undiscerning eye for talent (think Vernon Wells signing which was on Arte). 

I'd say Jedi was the worst mainly because how he didn't have a good draft philosophy along with a scorched earth farm/player development policy.  

 

 

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An argument could be made for Buzzie -- Nolan Ryan -- but he did manage to get the Halos to the postseason for the first two times in team history. And he did have a role in working with Bill Veeck to integrate baseball in the 1940s.

Whitey Herzog was essentially an absentee executive who alienated just about everybody around him whenever he decided to check in. But he wasn't here that long.

I'll default to the disasters that are freshest in my mind and choose Jedi.

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I know people like to think of Reagins as a patsy but I tend to gravitate to the guy who was in charge when things went south, who had the opportunity to maintain the strong foundation of success he inherited but failed to do so for whatever reason. By the time Dipoto was hired our organizational fate was already sealed... of course he opted to keep digging that trench in exchange for essentially a good 2014 season.

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17 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

For me it will always be the guy that traded for Von Hayes, Hubie Brooks, and signed Joe Magrane.  

That would be Dan O’Brien.

Bad GM that he was, I decided to vote for good ol’ Ponty.   He took what Stoneman helped to build, and outside of signing Hunter, messed it up.  

Ponty was the one who supposedly influenced Eddie Bane who to draft in the disaster that was the 2010 draft.  That plus Wells plus showing up late for the winter meetings puts him just ahead of “draft only high floors” Dumbpoto.

Ponty and Dumbpoto could just as easily be 1A and 1B.   Halos went from domination in the AL West to ONE AL West title in ELEVEN years.

Edited by Angel Oracle
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1 hour ago, Kaline said:

Sorry Blarg, Ryan was entertaining but he was not going to bring home the ring. 79' was the best chance and he pitched one game in the ALCS and matched Palmer, but ultimately gave up 3 runs.

I used to go to almost every game that Ryan pitched in the 70's, hoping to see a no-hitter. Lots of strikeouts, lots of walks and no run support. Also Ryan was going back to Texas no matter what, that's where he is from and has family, that's why he only played with the Rangers and Astros after his stint with the Angels. There were a lot of articles about how Gene Autry offered quite a bit to keep him in OC, but ultimately realized he was not going to stay.

He wasn't headed back to Texas, his agent was about to agree to a four year contract when Buzzie went to press and spilled the gem, he can replace Ryan with two pitchers that go 8-7. That insult flipped Ryan to talk to the Astros. 

Bavasi and his counterpart never did replace Nolan Ryan's production. They cobbled together some one year wonders and burnt out has been that left it a two man rotation that never even rivaled Tanana and Ryan then three days of cryin. 

I too am an Angels fan, going back to 1966. I was pissed they traded Fregosi for a pitcher. I soon learned they fleeced the Mets in that deal. Ryan's departure crippled the rotation and it's credibility. Not one single batter had any qualms digging in against Forsch, Witt or Zaun. Even Reggie Jackson was quoted as saying, Every hitter likes fastballs just like everybody likes ice cream. But you don't like it when someone's stuffing it into you by the gallon. That's how you feel when Nolan Ryan's throwing balls by you. You just hope to mix in a walk so you can have a good night and only go 0-for-3.

That was Bavasi's extreme fuck up. He let the most feared pitcher in the AL walk. 

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1 hour ago, Junkballer said:

It's a tough question because the big unknown is always "how much did ownership tie the GM's hands, or, step in to make executive decisions on FA acquisitions?".

I don't know a lot about GM's prior to Stoneman but Buzzie Bavasi's teams made 1st place in the division twice (both went to ALCS), 2nd twice, and 5/6th four times, so a mixed bag that should not be judged on the Ryan situation.  Reagins was the head of player development under Stoneman and had the benefit of Stoneman's prospect hoarding, so at least he had a concept of whole organizational success.  He was also handcuffed by a very active owner with an extremely undiscerning eye for talent (think Vernon Wells signing which was on Arte). 

I'd say Jedi was the worst mainly because how he didn't have a good draft philosophy along with a scorched earth farm/player development policy.  

 

 

Vernon Wells was not signed. 

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8 minutes ago, Puget Sound Angel said:

Outside of Nolan Ryan, everything from the 70's was the worst in Angels history, including GM Harry Dalton.

He did get the ball rolling though in his time (1972-1977) for the teams that eventually were mostly solid (three ALW titles and three other contention seasons) from 1978-1986.

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1 hour ago, Erstad Grit said:

Stoneman refusing to trade prospects was infuriating at the time but HE built that 2002 team. Shocked anyone would say he was the worst.  

To be fair, it was a combination of the late 80s through mid 90s drafts (Salmon, GA, Edmonds in turn bringing AK here, Glaus, Erstad, and Washburn especially) along with Stoneman not trading prospects away, that led to the beginning of the success from 2002-2009.

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On 9/18/2020 at 10:13 AM, Erstad Grit said:

Stoneman refusing to trade prospects was infuriating at the time but HE built that 2002 team. Shocked anyone would say he was the worst.  

The nucleus of the 2002 team was built during the Bill Bavasi / Bob Fontaine years. Salmon, GA, Glaus, Edmonds, Erstad, etc.  When Stoneman was hired, it was presumed by many in the press that he would have a fire sale and get rid of several players and start a rebuild.  When he was with Montreal, that was common. Hence the speculation.  Once he took over the Angels he realized that he liked the nucleus, and went from there . He made some good trades, like getting rid of Mo Vaughn. And he made some bad trades. Especially the Edmonds for Bottenfield / Kennedy deal. But he did leave the Farm intact, much to many fans dismay. All in all, he left the org in a pretty good place when he stepped down.

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No question in my mind anyway, the three worst were Walsh, Ponty, and Dumbpoto.

Walsh hired a scout as manager (Lefty Phillips), who eventually lost the clubhouse in 1971, and made questionable trades in his time as GM.

Ponty and Dumbpoto don’t need any explanation.

Edited by Angel Oracle
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