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Who was better in their prime years? Albert Pujols or Mike Trout?


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Raw, and counting stats...   .vs Weighted data... OPS+  AP - 170,  Trout - 176 wRC+  AP - 164, Trout - 173 wOBA AP -.425, Trout - .419

Not to rag on Pujols, but I think he is a fraud. Maybe his numbers were inflated by steroids. Certainly he lied about his age. And now he is milking the Angels for an exorbitant salary despite contrib

We drafted Alfredo Amezega with the 401st pick, Pujols went 402. Fucking Bavasi. 

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You need to remember that Trout's great years mostly happened in great seasons for pitchers to pitch in. 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2018 were all great seasons for pitchers to pitch in. The only season of Pujols' prime that wasn't a hitter-friendly season was in 2010. Not to mention that McGwire was either a teammate or hitting coach of Pujols, so steroids? I already posted that I would not be surprise one bit if Pujols juiced. Raw numbers are overrated. A lot of hitters during the steroids era put up Trout-like numbers. Not saying that they're weren't all good because they were all good but no one is associating them (mostly) with Trout. To answer your question, prime Trout's a better hitter and defender than prime Pujols. 

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43 minutes ago, wopphil said:

Not to rag on Pujols, but I think he is a fraud. Maybe his numbers were inflated by steroids. Certainly he lied about his age. And now he is milking the Angels for an exorbitant salary despite contributing nothing. 

Man, I just don’t see it with the age thing.  Put yourself in his shoes, you come over from another country, lets say you are 19, and you want to be a MLB player.  Could you see yourself signing yourself up for TWO more years of high school?  Why not just one?  To me, it doesn’t pass the smell test.  

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7 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

You need to remember that Trout's great years mostly happened in great seasons for pitchers to pitch in. 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2018 were all great seasons for pitchers to pitch in. The only season of Pujols' prime that wasn't a hitter-friendly season was in 2010. Not to mention that McGwire was either a teammate or hitting coach of Pujols, so steroids? I already posted that I would not be surprise one bit if Pujols juiced. Raw numbers are overrated. A lot of hitters during the steroids era put up Trout-like numbers. Not saying that they're weren't all good because they were all good but no one is associating them (mostly) with Trout. To answer your question, prime Trout's a better hitter and defender than prime Pujols. 

Except everyone thinks the ball is juiced now and has been for a few years.   Also such a different era of hitting.  Albert has never struck out 100 times in a season because that isn’t how the game was played back then.  Next year in his 11th season, Trout will surpass Albert for career strike outs.  Obviously that is just one portion, but k’s are just awful and incredibly unproductive.  

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36 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Raw, and counting stats... 
 .vs
Weighted data...

OPS+  AP - 170,  Trout - 176
wRC+  AP - 164, Trout - 173
wOBA AP -.425, Trout - .419

Whenever I see contextless stats, I am reminded of Dante Bichette, especially 1995 when he hit .340/.364/.620 with 40 HR and 128 RBI. It was for the Rockies in the inflated offense era, so his wRC+ was only 131 and his fWAR was 1.8. Or in 1999 when he hit .298/.354/.541 with 34 HR and 133 RBI and had an average 100 wRC+ and a -2.1 fWAR. Crazy.

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8 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

The stats say....

FB_IMG_1600154244238.jpg

Numbers dont lie. Pujos was every bit as good as Trout if not better. Cant use steroids as an excuse in this case as they were never proven. Either way both had similar numbers and not many post these numbers. Pujos is a first ballot HOF as will Trout be. The one thing that I will say is that Pujos got to play in meaningful games with a good team. This affords him the opportunity for protection in the line-up, runners on base, and just the ability to elevate your game . Trout has had none of these luxuries.

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Just now, yk9001 said:

Its like you guys insist on pining over this

e377fd41ee69f4f7b45e6709b0bed789.jpg

 

When what you got was this

nintchdbpict000270275568.jpg?w=640

You are literally the only one that does this.  We all know what we got.  We aren’t discussing what we got.  We are discussing what we had and what he was.  So to make your post more accurate show a hot woman from 20 years ago and a hot woman now.  Meg is cute not hot, so if you want to show a cute girl from 20 years ago and a cute girl now that would also work.  

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Just now, Stradling said:

Except everyone thinks the ball is juiced now and has been for a few years.   Also such a different era of hitting.  Albert has never struck out 100 times in a season because that isn’t how the game was played back then.  Next year in his 11th season, Trout will surpass Albert for career strike outs.  Obviously that is just one portion, but k’s are just awful and incredibly unproductive.  

This isn't borne out by stats. Check out the league batting numbers:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=0&type=8&season=2020&month=0&season1=1871&ind=0&team=0,ss&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=1871-01-01&enddate=2020-12-31&sort=1,d

The league SLG has been a bit up in 2016-20 compared to 2010-15, but the BA (.246) is the lowest it has been since 1972. Add in the fact that pitchers aren't hitting, which usually drives the numbers down quite a bit.

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18 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

You need to remember that Trout's great years mostly happened in great seasons for pitchers to pitch in. 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2018 were all great seasons for pitchers to pitch in. The only season of Pujols' prime that wasn't a hitter-friendly season was in 2010. Not to mention that McGwire was either a teammate or hitting coach of Pujols, so steroids? I already posted that I would not be surprise one bit if Pujols juiced. Raw numbers are overrated. A lot of hitters during the steroids era put up Trout-like numbers. Not saying that they're weren't all good because they were all good but no one is associating them (mostly) with Trout. To answer your question, prime Trout's a better hitter and defender than prime Pujols. 

The weighted numbers do this for both players.  Pujols was a legit inner circle level HOFer.   

It wasn't the parks, it wasn't the pitchers, he was flat out awesome.    It's also true that Mike Trout was better while playing a more demanding defensive position.

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Best nine seasons by wRC+, probably the best overall offense stat (Trout in bold):

190, 184, 184, 180, 180, 180, 176, 176, 174, 171, 171, 170, 167, 167, 167, 164, 159, 155

That's pretty damn close, with maybe a slight edge to Trout.

Trout has the only 190 season. They both have three seasons of 180 or higher, but Trout has seven seasons of 170+ to Albert's five, and all nine of Trout's full seasons are 167 or better, while Albert only has six seasons at 167+.

 

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22 minutes ago, RendZone said:

Pujols had a much more impactful “Prime Years” career than Trout with six postseason appearances and a World Championship during that time. The Cardinals put a nice team around him. Pujols had two 50 hr seasons and a 200 hit season. Albert was a very dominant player in his time and brought a Barry Bonds type presence at the plate. Trout’s career has had a very nice but mostly quiet career in terms of impact. That’s on the Angels. 
 

Pujols > Trout 

Dude, this isn't football where the role of the quarterback is central to a team's success, and where you can legitimately judge a QB by his postseason appearances and Super Bowl wins.

It isn't Trout's fault the Angels have sucked during his prime, just as it wasn't Pujols' doing that the Cardinals were good.

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3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Man, I just don’t see it with the age thing.  Put yourself in his shoes, you come over from another country, lets say you are 19, and you want to be a MLB player.  Could you see yourself signing yourself up for TWO more years of high school?  Why not just one?  To me, it doesn’t pass the smell test.  

If he was 2 years older in HS why dudnt he dominate HS to the point he would be drafted high enough to sign right out if HS?

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Just another stat that goes unnoticed and what I feel is one of the biggest reasons why Trout gets cheated out of playing in the postseason. 
 

Pujols 2001 - 2010 averaged 187 PA’s wRISP per season.

Trout  2012 - 2019 averaged 143 PA’s wRISP per season. 
 

That’s a huge disparity.

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Trout's been better offensively when you take everything into account.  Mainly the run scoring environment.

Trout was also an elite base runner for a good stretch.   Pujols is a smart base runner and had okay speed in his prime, but nothing like Trout.  

Defensively, it seems like a wash. They've both been solid and had their good moments, but nothing amazing.  Pujols' two gold gloves came before the new era of defensive statistics. Not sure he'd win those today.

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4 hours ago, RendZone said:

Pujols had a much more impactful “Prime Years” career than Trout with six postseason appearances and a World Championship during that time. The Cardinals put a nice team around him. Pujols had two 50 hr seasons and a 200 hit season. Albert was a very dominant player in his time and brought a Barry Bonds type of presence to the plate. Trout’s career has had a very nice but mostly quiet career in terms of impact. That’s on the Angels. 
 

Pujols > Trout 

Bonds should have just retired after the 1998 season. He would have ended his career with a .290/.411/.556 slash line with 411 home runs and 445 stolen bases. Add in 8 All-Star appearances, 3 MVP's, 8 Gold Gloves, and 7 Silver Sluggers. Career accomplishments look a lot like Trout's. 

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