According to MiLBAdvocates, Angels are not paying their Minor Leaguers despite saying they'd be paid $400/week stipends through August

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, Game 6 said:

It's not different. My friends who did internships out of college worked for at profit companies. They made no money. It was their choice. Toilet paper is not free but I had a friend who did an internship with Procter and gamble. He didn't have a salary but he did it to build a career. An 18 year old kid reporting to rookie ball is making the same choice.

We choose. If you are not happy, choose differently.

And like I stated earlier, at the age we are talking about here many, many people take a step back to move forward and into a career - internships, PA's, entry level sales rep's, etc.

Your friend wasn’t the product, toilet paper is the product.  The player is the product so yes it’s different.  Also your clown college is the closer analogy since clowns would be the product except then you said he chose the clown school.  Minor league player choose to be players, but they don’t choose where, they choose what.   Then they get paid a shit wage, oh and can be traded anywhere in the country at any time.  Also I’d assume the clown can get a night job.  You aren’t getting night or day jobs until the off season.  

[Stradling]

6 hours ago, Lou said:

Can someone provide the breakdown showing how minor leaguers make less than minimum wage?

This is not a great article but here is one story about it.  If you just do the math, which is they get to the ball park around 3pm and leave around midnight, 6 times a week, its pretty easy to see that, even without travel they are making less than minimum wage.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/baseball-broshuis-minor-league-wage-income/

[T.G.]

8 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.  

That should be simple enough... but not on AW

[kevinb]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

This is not a great article but here is one story about it.  If you just do the math, which is they get to the ball park around 3pm and leave around midnight, 6 times a week, its pretty easy to see that, even without travel they are making less than minimum wage.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/baseball-broshuis-minor-league-wage-income/

Plus I imagine that doesn’t take into consideration. Practice strength training etc on off days etc 

[Jeff Fletcher]

13 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Plus I imagine that doesn’t take into consideration. Practice strength training etc on off days etc 

They also get paid zero during spring training and the offseason. 
 

@Game 6 Do you believe there should be no minimum wage established by the law?

[Blarg]

What is not included in this pay argument is the draft bonus. I don't know any minimum wage job that offers you $20,000-$2,500,000 to sign up to flip hamburgers and at any time you can walk away and keep the money. 

Between their paltry wage, meal allowances on the road that pretty much equal the value meal plan, plus money from the signing bonus that usually hangs around their necks in gold chains, these guys only play from February through the end of August. All their travel expenses are covered. It's not like they have to pay for that shitty bus ride from Utah to Idaho to play the Spuds. 

There is the argument they have to stay in shape in the off season but then, they are supposed to be athletes so it is a given. However from September to January they are not working so get a damn job. No other industry pays five months of wages for nothing in return. 

The pay they receive is for services rendered not a year round paycheck. They are like the ushers at the games, once the season is over they have to go back to bring Walmart greaters.

Get a damn job to cover your life expenses for five months instead of sitting at mom's house playing MLB the Show with Jered Weaver, who retired four years ago on a mountain of cash and laughs at your weak sauce pitching. 

[kevinb]

43 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

They also get paid zero during spring training and the offseason. 
 

@Game 6 Do you believe there should be no minimum wage established by the law?

I heard something or read it somewhere. But does anyone get paid during spring training? Like do any of the major league players get paid during spring training?

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, Blarg said:

What is not included in this pay argument is the draft bonus. I don't know any minimum wage job that offers you $20,000-$2,500,000 to sign up to flip hamburgers and at any time you can walk away and keep the money. 

Between their paltry wage, meal allowances on the road that pretty much equal the value meal plan, plus money from the signing bonus that usually hangs around their necks in gold chains, these guys only play from February through the end of August. All their travel expenses are covered. It's not like they have to pay for that shitty bus ride from Utah to Idaho to play the Spuds. 

There is the argument they have to stay in shape in the off season but then, they are supposed to be athletes so it is a given. However from September to January they are not working so get a damn job. No other industry pays five months of wages for nothing in return. 

The pay they receive is for services rendered not a year round paycheck. They are like the ushers at the games, once the season is over they have to go back to bring Walmart greaters.

Get a damn job to cover your life expenses for five months instead of sitting at mom's house playing MLB the Show with Jered Weaver, who retired four years ago on a mountain of cash and laughs at your weak sauce pitching. 

There is a lot of assuming going on here.  Sure they get jobs in the off season, but they still have to find a place to stay during the season, when they are making $400-500 a week.  Imagine if they are on the Quakes or 66ers any team in So Cal where rent is $1500 a month for a one bedroom.  Sure they live with their parents in the off season but more than likely not during the season.  Not every team is set up with host cities.  In an industry that could pay them a much healthier wage it sucks they choose not to.  I am not talking about making them even upper middle class, but man a living wage during the season wouldn’t suck.  

[Lou]

30 minutes ago, Stradling said:

There is a lot of assuming going on here.  Sure they get jobs in the off season, but they still have to find a place to stay during the season, when they are making $400-500 a week.  Imagine if they are on the Quakes or 66ers any team in So Cal where rent is $1500 a month for a one bedroom.  Sure they live with their parents in the off season but more than likely not during the season.  Not every team is set up with host cities.  In an industry that could pay them a much healthier wage it sucks they choose not to.  I am not talking about making them even upper middle class, but man a living wage during the season wouldn’t suck.  

Roommate.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, Kevinb said:

I heard something or read it somewhere. But does anyone get paid during spring training? Like do any of the major league players get paid during spring training?

No players do. Non players do. 

[kevinb]

10 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

No players do. Non players do. 

I imagine it was something they contractually agreed to? But I don't get that at all. It's like the Olympics, World Cup etc. I don't understand how these athletes agree to these idiotic terms. NBC and all these other networks are collecting BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars while the athletes are getting pennies if that. It's the same thing with college football and basketball, I don't understand it. But that's a topic for another thread entirely. 

[Dtwncbad]

Every back and forth on this subject comes down to one simple thing.

Do you view playing in the mi or leagues as a JOB making it perfectly fair to compare it to other “normal” jobs?

Or do you view it as basically an earned, privileged opportunity to train, learn, better yourself toward achieving your dream “job” of playing in the majors?

Hollywood is full of world class actors and actresses who spend years doing free stage work (or for literally only cost change), paying out of their pocket for acting workshops, and spending their own time and money going on thousands of auditions and readings without getting paid to do it.  .  .all because if they break through they stand to be a star that makes millions and millions.

Doctors spend another decade in school that they have to pay for to end up being a doctor.  Lots of professionals have required unpaid training or education where you are ultimately competing for your dream job.

I think minor leaguers should be paid.  But I can’t get on the “they are victims” bandwagon of being underpaid.

There are plenty of financial problem in our world to spend time being concerned about.

22 year old minor leaguer baseball players being underpaid isn’t even on the radar.

[Jeff Fletcher]

47 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

There are plenty of financial problem in our world to spend time being concerned about.

22 year old minor leaguer baseball players being underpaid isn’t even on the radar.

I agree. But if we’re going there then nothing on this message board is worth discussing. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

18 minutes ago, Game 6 said:

Major league players are salaried employees. They have yearly contracts. When the checks come doesn’t change anything. 

Some teachers are paid during the school year and not during the Summer or they can be paid throughout the year. Either way they make the same. They have contracts. 
 

This is true. But major leaguers make enough money so if you divide the salary by the hours (even including spring training), it’s still more than minimum wage. 
 

I’m sure if you wanted to pay minor leaguers $20,000 a year instead of $8,000, they also wouldn’t care when the checks came.

[angelinkc]

I don’t see the problem here. Arte paid the full amount owed. 

[m0nkey]

17 hours ago, Lou said:

If I wasn't making at least minimum wage, I'd find another job.

If I was making minimum wage, I’d find another job 

[Dtwncbad]

40 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I agree. But if we’re going there then nothing on this message board is worth discussing. 

You would be exactly correct if this was a message board about financial injustice.

Baseball is its own bubble.  And that’s fine but it is perfectly fair to check ourselves if we think minor leaguers pay is an injustice.

I mean, come on.

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Every back and forth on this subject comes down to one simple thing.

Do you view playing in the mi or leagues as a JOB making it perfectly fair to compare it to other “normal” jobs?

Or do you view it as basically an earned, privileged opportunity to train, learn, better yourself toward achieving your dream “job” of playing in the majors?

Hollywood is full of world class actors and actresses who spend years doing free stage work (or for literally only cost change), paying out of their pocket for acting workshops, and spending their own time and money going on thousands of auditions and readings without getting paid to do it.  .  .all because if they break through they stand to be a star that makes millions and millions.

Doctors spend another decade in school that they have to pay for to end up being a doctor.  Lots of professionals have required unpaid training or education where you are ultimately competing for your dream job.

I think minor leaguers should be paid.  But I can’t get on the “they are victims” bandwagon of being underpaid.

There are plenty of financial problem in our world to spend time being concerned about.

22 year old minor leaguer baseball players being underpaid isn’t even on the radar.

Disagree with your comparison between actors who are trying to make it in the business auditioning etc for free and professional baseball players trying to make it to the big leagues. Auditions are basically try outs and they aren't making any money for anyone at this time but they are making money for the minor league clubs and the major league clubs, maybe not a lot but they are making money. I agree try out all you want for baseball teams for free its your prerogative. I think where it gets dicey is that these minor leaguers are contracted individuals which the ML club can do whatever they want with. They can uproot their lives and trade them to a different organization across the country or heck move them up a division which will move them to a different city or state even with out any say so from said player. How is a player supposed to have a job or a salaried job, where he doesn't know if tomorrow he has to pack a bag and move to a different city. I don't think this part is discussed much. 

Yes it is there choice to play this sport, but that's where my argument comes in that they should be able to negotiate contract terms with said club. They should be independent contractors basically instead of employees of the parent club. At any point in time they should be able to seek a better deal and sign else where, at least be able to negotiate the terms of their contract with the parent club that said parent club doesn't for lack of a better term "own" them for a huge amount of time, while also paying them pennies. Freedom of choice should work both ways, there is a supply and demand somewhere in here. 

[kevinb]

5 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

You would be exactly correct if this was a message board about financial injustice.

Baseball is its own bubble.  And that’s fine but it is perfectly fair to check ourselves if we think minor leaguers pay is an injustice.

I mean, come on.

There can be more than one injustice going on in the world. College athletes aren't getting paid either while the schools rack up millions upon millions of dollars. Is that an injustice yes, does it mean that these sweat shop workers in China and other parts of the world where they pay their people actual pennies in horrible conditions to make cheap products for huge profits isn't an injustice? No. Both suck. There can be more than one sucky situation at a time in the world. 

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

There can be more than one injustice going on in the world. College athletes aren't getting paid either while the schools rack up millions upon millions of dollars. Is that an injustice yes, does it mean that these sweat shop workers in China and other parts of the world where they pay their people actual pennies in horrible conditions to make cheap products for huge profits isn't an injustice? No. Both suck. There can be more than one sucky situation at a time in the world. 

I don’t disagree.  But big colleges are making massive massive massive money on those athletes.

No minor league team is making a scratch compared to that.

[kevinb]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

I don’t disagree.  But big colleges are making massive massive massive money on those athletes.

No minor league team is making a scratch compared to that.

So is it then just the profit margins that determine an injustice? 

Hey I am all for completely dismantling the minor league systems, and rebuilding them from the scratch. I think that MLB should try to make minor league baseball a thing and televise it if it isn't already. Cut the leagues down to 2 maybe 3 leagues and that's it help pay these players more while creating more baseball awareness. There has to be some middle ground where these minor leaguers are being paid better than they are now. Whether its contract negotiations or cutting down on the amount of leagues which in turn would cut down on the amount of players, or putting it on tv to help make the teams some more money to pay them. Idk, there would be so many things that baseball could do, which the owners can continue to keep a huge piece of the pie while the players don't get completely screwed over.

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

So is it then just the profit margins that determine an injustice? 

Hey I am all for completely dismantling the minor league systems, and rebuilding them from the scratch. I think that MLB should try to make minor league baseball a thing and televise it if it isn't already. Cut the leagues down to 2 maybe 3 leagues and that's it help pay these players more while creating more baseball awareness. There has to be some middle ground where these minor leaguers are being paid better than they are now. Whether its contract negotiations or cutting down on the amount of leagues which in turn would cut down on the amount of players, or putting it on tv to help make the teams some more money to pay them. Idk, there would be so many things that baseball could do, which the owners can continue to keep a huge piece of the pie while the players don't get completely screwed over.

I just don’t see exactly why minor leaguers “need to be paid better” . . .

By and large they are thrilled to be in the position they are in.  And when they stop being thrilled they maybe decide to do something else.  And the guy that replaces him is thrilled.

I am speaking in generalities here of course.

I recall my early days in my 20s of basically trading my work for a combination of experience/opportunity (rather than pay) and it was perfectly fine for what I was trying to accomplish long term.

I simply view the minor leagues the same way.  It’s just my opinion.

[kevinb]

2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I just don’t see exactly why minor leaguers “need to be paid better” . . .

By and large they are thrilled to be in the position they are in.  And when they stop being thrilled they maybe decide to do something else.  And the guy that replaces him is thrilled.

I am speaking in generalities here of course.

I recall my early days in my 20s of basically trading my work for a combination of experience/opportunity (rather than pay) and it was perfectly fine for what I was trying to accomplish long term.

I simply view the minor leagues the same way.  It’s just my opinion.

I agree I do think they are thrilled. But I think they should be paid at a very minimum minimum wage. A very very very high number of them will never reach the majors and get a big check. I think compensating to minimum wage isn't a horrible idea. Owners make plenty of cash to be able to support minimum wage workers, and it not put a big dent in the overall income stream of their business. 

[Lou]

So pay minor leaguers minimum wage.

This year that would equal $0.00

[kevinb]

Just now, Lou said:

So pay minor leaguers minimum wage.

This year that would equal $0.00

I mean they're still employees correct? So technically they could furlough them if they wanted. They could be collecting unemployment. I'm ok with that.