Tommy La Stella traded to the A's for Franklin Barreto

[Claude]

13 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

@Jeff Fletcher

How often do you suppose teams re-sign a player they traded the previous season?

I know it's happened before, but I can't recall the last time. Seems like a pretty rare occurrence.

Chapman 

[AngelsFanSince86]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Eppler has been better with trades than with free agency.  So even if you extend La Stella you are probably still looking at hitting the market for a middle infielder.  I am willing to give this trade some time to see how it works out.  

Yeah not much else to do at this point. I'm not up in arms about it. I just don't like trading their 4th-ish best hitter away. And I just like the guy. We'll see though.

[Hubs]

20 minutes ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

It's going to be significantly harder to sign him now, particularly if the A's are interested. Definitely won't get a team friendly deal anymore.

We wouldn’t ever had a team friendly deal from a mid level 31 year old all star without a big contract in his past. He would’ve taken the most money even if it didn’t come from the Angels. Think 5/45 or more.

[Angels in 2030]

10 minutes ago, Angel said:

So you think this move means we're not trading Simmons?  I'm pretty sure this means he's being traded or at the very least walking, the kind of salary we can free up for pitching is too good to miss.

No.  That’s not what I mean at all.  I’m saying this trades helps us for 2021 - so less of a need to RESIGN Simmons or some other MI.  

[Angelsjunky]

I doubt the Angels re-sign La Stella. He's going to get, what, somewhere in the $8-10M/yr range? That's money to be spent on pitching.

 

[Docwaukee]

the actual player/s in return are almost irrelevant.  

the Angels had 27 games worth of value left in La Stella.  Value that helps them do nothing but play out the rest of the season.  

you almost have to think about this like the draft.  get the bpa.  

I am sure Eppler could have gotten a pitcher.  Maybe some guy in A ball with upside at the bottom of a top 30 list that wouldn't be ready till 2023.  Or some guy in AAA who is 25 that might be a #4 but is most likely a 5/swing that ends up as an ok middle reliever.  

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

57 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

@Jeff Fletcher

How often do you suppose teams re-sign a player they traded the previous season?

I know it's happened before, but I can't recall the last time. Seems like a pretty rare occurrence.

Pretty rare. Aroldis Chapman is the only one I can think of. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

get a team friendly deal

There’s no such thing in free agency. If a player wants to sign with a team so much he’s willing to leave money on the table it happens before free agency.

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Lou said:

They'll most likely get a bye in the 1st round.

No byes this year

[Lou]

[AngelsLakersFan]

I'll expand on my initial thoughts on this trade from yesterday's GameDay thread. The deal is fine, this is more than a reasonable return for a few weeks of La Stella. Barreto is an interesting piece.

My issue here is what this likely means for next year's team. Simmons is a FA and now we have two middle infielders on the cusp of the majors in Barreto and Rengifo, one of which is out of options and has to be on the team, at least as a backup. With Fletcher and Rendon locking down two spots this means we will no longer be interested in Simmons, so Fletcher, Barreto and Rengifo handle MIF duties next year. On the surface this is not terrible, but we have lost our 4th best hitter and a a guy who was a 5 win shortstop as recently as 2 years ago. This is not easily replaced value. We are punting on a ton of upside here and banking on avoiding the downside risk of these guys failing.

Barreto was highly touted, but if you didn't know that he'd be a mildly intriguing prospect. A guy with an OK minor league track record and an inability to make the leap to the majors with limited at bats. Still has upside but we are now desperately in need of him turning into at least an average second basemen.

[Docwaukee]

17 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I'll expand on my initial thoughts on this trade from yesterday's GameDay thread. The deal is fine, this is more than a reasonable return for a few weeks of La Stella. Barreto is an interesting piece.

My issue here is what this likely means for next year's team. Simmons is a FA and now we have two middle infielders on the cusp of the majors in Barreto and Rengifo, one of which is out of options and has to be on the team, at least as a backup. With Fletcher and Rendon locking down two spots this means we will no longer be interested in Simmons, so Fletcher, Barreto and Rengifo handle MIF duties next year. On the surface this is not terrible, but we have lost our 4th best hitter and a a guy who was a 5 win shortstop as recently as 2 years ago. This is not easily replaced value. We are punting on a ton of upside here and banking on avoiding the downside risk of these guys failing.

Barreto was highly touted, but if you didn't know that he'd be a mildly intriguing prospect. A guy with an OK minor league track record and an inability to make the leap to the majors with limited at bats. Still has upside but we are now desperately in need of him turning into at least an average second basemen.

this is all true.  and it's up to Eppler and his scouts to get more of these types of moves right than wrong.  That's how most championship teams are built.  

I have been a big proponent of having Arte help buy the teams way out of less than savory situations that I think he helped create.  Yet year after year this doesn't happen to the extent that it needs to.  Yes, Arte spends and I am thankful for that.  And yes, the Halos have a big enough budget to where they should be able to win a championship.  But, and I know you have mentioned this many times, this team is somewhat caught in the middle and will be unless the Rengifos, Sandovals, Barrettos, Adells, Marshs, Thaiss, and Cannings of the world pan out.  Guys obtain via lesser moves.  ie.  Not by top 5 draft picks or trading a very valuable major league asset for top prospects.  

It's gonna take a ton of luck or the best GM in baseball to pull this off.  This is partially why I am defensive of Eppler.  In my opinion, he's been put into a bit of a no win situation.  Instead of acquiring Barretto to help the major league club, he could have acquired a lower level prospect or two with much higher upside or value.  But the priority is always on the major league club and keeping it competitive.  This will always lead to a sacrifice of the future for the present.  

While Billy has succeeded to the extent that we'd find acceptable, I am not sure anyone can under these conditions.  So it's high risk, high reward on everything and hope you hit on more than you don't.  

All I can say is good luck to the next guy because for the next five years it will be more of the same and honestly, if it works, it will have to be based on a foundation of what Eppler did 

[Angel]

48 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I'll expand on my initial thoughts on this trade from yesterday's GameDay thread. The deal is fine, this is more than a reasonable return for a few weeks of La Stella. Barreto is an interesting piece.

My issue here is what this likely means for next year's team. Simmons is a FA and now we have two middle infielders on the cusp of the majors in Barreto and Rengifo, one of which is out of options and has to be on the team, at least as a backup. With Fletcher and Rendon locking down two spots this means we will no longer be interested in Simmons, so Fletcher, Barreto and Rengifo handle MIF duties next year. On the surface this is not terrible, but we have lost our 4th best hitter and a a guy who was a 5 win shortstop as recently as 2 years ago. This is not easily replaced value. We are punting on a ton of upside here and banking on avoiding the downside risk of these guys failing.

Barreto was highly touted, but if you didn't know that he'd be a mildly intriguing prospect. A guy with an OK minor league track record and an inability to make the leap to the majors with limited at bats. Still has upside but we are now desperately in need of him turning into at least an average second basemen.

The Angels are not in a position NOT to gamble, we have to take some chances and get lucky, makeup some lost ground.

[TooCool]

Not sure if it's been posted already but I'll post it anyway.

MLB The Show 20 Player Ratings. (Yeah, I know it's just a video game but it matters.)

La Stella's overall rating? 80.

Barreto's overall rating? 61.

Ouch.

[eligrba]

3 hours ago, TooCool said:

Not sure if it's been posted already but I'll post it anyway.

MLB The Show 20 Player Ratings. (Yeah, I know it's just a video game but it matters.)

La Stella's overall rating? 80.

Barreto's overall rating? 61.

Ouch.

It’s well researched data like this is what's missing in the Angel‘s organization when making decisions.

Edited August 30, 2020 by eligrba

[Angel]

46 minutes ago, TooCool said:

Not sure if it's been posted already but I'll post it anyway.

MLB The Show 20 Player Ratings. (Yeah, I know it's just a video game but it matters.)

La Stella's overall rating? 80.

Barreto's overall rating? 61.

Ouch.

Bundy was what and is what now?

[TooCool]

28 minutes ago, Angel said:

Bundy was what and is what now?

Because I have nothing better to do right now I'll look it up for ya.

MLB The Show 19. Bundy was 73 overall with the Orioles.

MLB The Show 20. Bundy is currently at 81 overall with the Halos.

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, Angel said:

The Angels are not in a position NOT to gamble, we have to take some chances and get lucky, makeup some lost ground.

I don't see this as the type of gamble you are talking about though... this feels like, as Doc said, a case where they tried to fill a hole at the major league level with a value option as opposed to spending money or attempting to maximize talent. Looks like they now let Simmons walk, even though I think he doesn't cost all that much this off season and we role the dice with Barreto instead. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

this is all true.  and it's up to Eppler and his scouts to get more of these types of moves right than wrong.  That's how most championship teams are built.  

I have been a big proponent of having Arte help buy the teams way out of less than savory situations that I think he helped create.  Yet year after year this doesn't happen to the extent that it needs to.  Yes, Arte spends and I am thankful for that.  And yes, the Halos have a big enough budget to where they should be able to win a championship.  But, and I know you have mentioned this many times, this team is somewhat caught in the middle and will be unless the Rengifos, Sandovals, Barrettos, Adells, Marshs, Thaiss, and Cannings of the world pan out.  Guys obtain via lesser moves.  ie.  Not by top 5 draft picks or trading a very valuable major league asset for top prospects.  

It's gonna take a ton of luck or the best GM in baseball to pull this off.  This is partially why I am defensive of Eppler.  In my opinion, he's been put into a bit of a no win situation.  Instead of acquiring Barretto to help the major league club, he could have acquired a lower level prospect or two with much higher upside or value.  But the priority is always on the major league club and keeping it competitive.  This will always lead to a sacrifice of the future for the present.  

While Billy has succeeded to the extent that we'd find acceptable, I am not sure anyone can under these conditions.  So it's high risk, high reward on everything and hope you hit on more than you don't.  

All I can say is good luck to the next guy because for the next five years it will be more of the same and honestly, if it works, it will have to be based on a foundation of what Eppler did 

Yeah this has been my major critique since 2010. I think it may be fundamentally impossible to run a team the way the Angels have attempted to under Moreno without truly brilliant leadership. Teams have far too much information on their own players now to make significantly terrible evaluations on the regular. I don't want to overstate what position the team is in right now but this feels like another soft rebuild type of move when we should be in contention.

[Chuck]

Some Franklin Barreto highlights. Apologies for the music in advanced. 

 

[Angel]

2 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I don't see this as the type of gamble you are talking about though... this feels like, as Doc said, a case where they tried to fill a hole at the major league level with a value option as opposed to spending money or attempting to maximize talent. Looks like they now let Simmons walk, even though I think he doesn't cost all that much this off season and we role the dice with Barreto instead. 

The problem with resigning Simmons is you lose quite a lot of salary space (which we currently lack more than almost any team) we could get 2 solid bullpen arms potentially or one decent pitcher.  That's the difference between a WC team and a division leader.

[Pancake Bear]

5 hours ago, TooCool said:

Not sure if it's been posted already but I'll post it anyway.

MLB The Show 20 Player Ratings. (Yeah, I know it's just a video game but it matters.)

La Stella's overall rating? 80.

Barreto's overall rating? 61.

Ouch.

 

That’s from 2011, fwiw.
 

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Angel said:

The problem with resigning Simmons is you lose quite a lot of salary space (which we currently lack more than almost any team) we could get 2 solid bullpen arms potentially or one decent pitcher.  That's the difference between a WC team and a division leader.

Don't think his market is gone be that large. There are a bunch of great options in 2021.

[Mark68]

So...do we know how the pitching market will be this offseason? It's Bauer and who else?

 

I think this is a salary dump move--not that La Stella was making all that much, but it means that Simmons is now definitely expendable. There should be SOME money available for pitching, and, let's face it, Arte might have to spend at an uncomfortable (for him) level, to be competitive. He's kinda brought this upon himself. 

[Angel]

2 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

 

That’s from 2011, fwiw.
 

From "Could be a decent regular. Nothing more" to "Can't miss player of the Century"