Jo Adell is a hot mess

[kevinb]

10 minutes ago, nate said:

This whole team is a hot mess.

Remember Adell is playing because Upton is hitting under .100.

fixed.

[CanadianHalo]

Jesus Christ... If you thought he was immediately going to set the league on fire the day he was called up you haven’t been paying any attention at all.

It has taken Adell some time at each stop he’s made to adjust. I believe I said prior to this season it’ll take him about a month to adjust at the major league level. 

If you’ve paid any attention at all to Adell prior to his call up I think this weekend in terms of his approach at the plate (not talking results) took a step forward.

Offensively, Adell will be fine. 

[Mark PT]

16 hours ago, Bronson said:

I just don’t see a star in Adell. He doesn’t seem to have that “it” factor. That’s something you just can’t teach. I don’t know what it is but he just doesn’t seem like he has what a takes to be a good big league player. 
 

His swing is way to long.

He whiffs at a lot of pitches.

He has zero baseball IQ

His defense isn’t just horrible, it’s horrific.

 

I literally have zero confidence he will ever come through in a clutch spot. Look at Luis Robert or Tatis... those are superstars in the making. Adell isn’t that. 
 

At this point, we have the offense. I would not be mad or shocked if we traded him for some pitching. We don’t have 3 years to develop this kid. He’s a BIG work in progress. We need to win now.

 

I agree but what you list are not "it" factors. Those are all basic baseball skills. As others have said, it looks like he has never been on a field beyond maybe high school.

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Wait what?!?!?! Upton can do what Adell is doing? See this is where you are wrong. Tell me again what Upton can do? 

Upton this year .094 Avg .169 Obp .188 Slg

Adell this year 196. Avg .255 Obp .216 Slg

Goodwin is good or at least avg. But right now Adell even as bad as he's been is still much better than Upton. 

We have no idea what Upton is.  Adell is getting regular at bats and Upton isn’t.  Upton has 13 games of playing regularly.   We don’t know if he’s done, my guess is he isn’t done.  Also he was better last year in a bad year than Adell is this year. 

[kevinb]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

We have no idea what Upton is.  Adell is getting regular at bats and Upton isn’t.  Upton has 13 games of playing regularly.   We don’t know if he’s done, my guess is he isn’t done.  Also he was better last year in a bad year than Adell is this year. 

Wait so I thought you said Upton could do what Adell is doing? Which so far this year he hasn't been able to show us that. Right now the Angels haven't thrown in the towel for the season. Until they do they should play the best players available to try to win each game. Adell at the moment is better than Upton. Upton should be getting minimal playing time while Goodwin and Adell are getting the majority if not all the at bats. Upton was better last year, but that doesn't mean he was good. He was pretty bad last year as well. 

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Keep telling yourself that. There are always excuses with you. It's not Epplers fault. Poor him. Management is the key to any successful business. His plan isn't working or doesn't look like it's working. His top prospect is playing like dog poop, and our pitching staff which he hand picked aren't working out. This is his team. He picked the players. 

I never said poor him.  I never said it isn’t his fault.  I just think guys like you have no idea the situation he walked into.  So you aren’t going to answer my questions?  

How long does it take to build a farm when you can’t trade anything of talent to bring in young talent?

Also remember Adell is ranked highly because the Angels thought he was good or that Eppler thought he was good.  He is ranked that highly because the baseball community thinks he is going to be good.  

[Angelsjunky]

31 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Having Bonds in the line up isn't just about WAR his numbers helped everyone in the line up. People hitting in front of them people hitting behind them. Stolen Bases GG outfielder etc. 

Maybe. It is impossible to speculate on how Bonds' presence in the lineup would effect other players. Everyone thought there would be a huge Rendon Effect to Trout's numbers, and he's actually hitting slightly worse - except for HR. I just don't think you can swap Upton for Bonds and think everyone would magically be playing better.

[kevinb]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I never said poor him.  I never said it isn’t his fault.  I just think guys like you have no idea the situation he walked into.  So you aren’t going to answer my questions?  

How long does it take to build a farm when you can’t trade anything of talent to bring in young talent?

Also remember Adell is ranked highly because the Angels thought he was good or that Eppler thought he was good.  He is ranked that highly because the baseball community thinks he is going to be good.  

What are you talking about. Who said you can't trade anything? That isn't my call. He is the GM of this team he could have done whatever he wanted he was given the power. I said early and often that they should have traded everything and restarted. He kept spending Arte's money to win. I didn't give a plan to Arte he did, Arte hired him and gave him the job to operate his plan. His plan so far hasn't turned out well, for whatever reason. This team hasn't had a winning record since he's been here. We are now currently in 5th place in the AL West with the second highest payroll in our division. That's atrocious anyway you slice it. How long should it take to build a winning ball club. I would say under 5 years, at the very lease under 5 years to show progress and to show your team is starting to take shape and is getting better. We aren't succeeding in that department we are actually getting worse. It's not good. 

Speaking of not answering questions. I thought you said Upton could do what Adell is doing? Why isn't he then? 

[Stradling]

I find it hard to believe any one player would make this team  8-10 games better in the first 30 games. I’d venture to say that’s nonsense.  But we’re crazy for not thinking Bonds wouldn’t have us at 17-20 wins right now. 

[kevinb]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Maybe. It is impossible to speculate on how Bonds' presence in the lineup would effect other players. Everyone thought there would be a huge Rendon Effect to Trout's numbers, and he's actually hitting slightly worse - except for HR. I just don't think you can swap Upton for Bonds and think everyone would magically be playing better.

I think going from an under 200 Obp to an over 400 Obp would do wonders for this line up. Not to mention every thing else Bonds did. I don't even know why we are arguing this. Bonds is one of the greatest baseball players of all time and Upton is just another guy. It's not even debateable. I mean do you think two Trouts in a line up is better than one? 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

What are you talking about. Who said you can't trade anything? That isn't my call. He is the GM of this team he could have done whatever he wanted he was given the power. I said early and often that they should have traded everything and restarted. He kept spending Arte's money to win. I didn't give a plan to Arte he did, Arte hired him and gave him the job to operate his plan. His plan so far hasn't turned out well, for whatever reason. This team hasn't had a winning record since he's been here. We are now currently in 5th place in the AL West with the second highest payroll in our division. That's atrocious anyway you slice it. How long should it take to build a winning ball club. I would say under 5 years, at the very lease under 5 years to show progress and to show your team is starting to take shape and is getting better. We aren't succeeding in that department we are actually getting worse. It's not good. 

Ok the valuable trade pieces he had to trade to rebuild the farm, Trout.  Could he trade Trout?  
 

[nate]

41 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok, so why is he still up here?

Why not?  The Angels are way out of the playoff race, might as well get him some experience.  It is not like Adell is the reason the Angels are losing games.

[Angelsjunky]

4 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

What are you talking about. Who said you can't trade anything? That isn't my call. He is the GM of this team he could have done whatever he wanted he was given the power. I said early and often that they should have traded everything and restarted. He kept spending Arte's money to win. I didn't give a plan to Arte he did, Arte hired him and gave him the job to operate his plan. His plan so far hasn't turned out well, for whatever reason. This team hasn't had a winning record since he's been here. We are now currently in 5th place in the AL West with the second highest payroll in our division. That's atrocious anyway you slice it. How long should it take to build a winning ball club. I would say under 5 years, at the very lease under 5 years to show progress and to show your team is starting to take shape and is getting better. We aren't succeeding in that department we are actually getting worse. It's not good. 

Yes, I agree that its not good and that Eppler hasn't performed as hoped. But I still would give him another year, because of the unique nature of this year. Last year I was thinking, "let's see how the team looks in 2020 to see if the Eppler Plan is working at all." 2020 is a freak show and about 40% of a full season, so I don't think will give us enough info to go on.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Angelsjunky

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

I think going from an under 200 Obp to an over 400 Obp would do wonders for this line up. Not to mention every thing else Bonds did. I don't even know why we are arguing this. Bonds is one of the greatest baseball players of all time and Upton is just another guy. It's not even debateable. I mean do you think two Trouts in a line up is better than one? 

We’re arguing that over the course of 30 games that he makes us 7-10 games better which is what you are claiming by saying we’d be at the top of our division. 

[Stradling]

Just now, nate said:

Why not?  The Angels are way out of the playoff race, might as well get him some experience.  It is not like Adell is the reason the Angels are losing games.

Exactly, he’s up here for his development.  Which is why he was up from the beginning and why he’s staying up here. 

[Angelsjunky]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

I think going from an under 200 Obp to an over 400 Obp would do wonders for this line up. Not to mention every thing else Bonds did. I don't even know why we are arguing this. Bonds is one of the greatest baseball players of all time and Upton is just another guy. It's not even debateable. I mean do you think two Trouts in a line up is better than one? 

Of course it would. But now you're shifting around. No one is arguing that the team wouldn't be better, just not 10 games better. No one is that good.

[Claude]

28 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Wait what?!?!?! Upton can do what Adell is doing? See this is where you are wrong. Tell me again what Upton can do? 

Upton this year .094 Avg .169 Obp .188 Slg

Adell this year 196. Avg .255 Obp .216 Slg

Goodwin is good or at least avg. But right now Adell even as bad as he's been is still much better than Upton. 

You’re wasting your time. He will defend Upton no matter what. He will defend the Angels because Angels.

[kevinb]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

Yes, I agree that its not good and that Eppler hasn't performed as hoped. But I still would give him another year, because of the unique nature of this year. Last year I was thinking, "let's see how the team looks in 2020 to see if the Eppler Plan is working at all." 2020 is a freak show and about 30% of a full season, so I don't think will give us enough info to go on.

What is the unique nature of this year? Because no fans are in the stadiums? Because of outside Covid fears? Has anyone who is of any consequence opted out from the Angels. Heck even Trout only missed what 3 games? This year is unique in it's shorter, and no fans are in the stands. But everyone is playing the same game. We are facing teams who are in the exact same situation. It's not like the Angels are the only one dealing with Covid while everyone else is not. 

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Exactly, he’s up here for his development.  Which is why he was up from the beginning and why he’s staying up here. 

Hopefully his psyche can handle the trial by fire he's experiencing 

[kevinb]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

Of course it would. But now you're shifting around. No one is arguing that the team wouldn't be better, just not 10 games better. No one is that good.

Maybe not 10 games. But the Angels would not be dead last in the division. We would probably be 2nd or 3rd and within fighting distance. Upton's absolute zero bat so far is crushing. It is a rally killer. 

[Claude]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Exactly, he’s up here for his development.  Which is why he was up from the beginning and why he’s staying up here. 

And where is Marsh? Isn’t he older than Adell? Don’t we need to know what’s up with him? 

[kevinb]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Exactly, he’s up here for his development.  Which is why he was up from the beginning and why he’s staying up here. 

He was up here because Upton couldn't hit. If Upton and Goodwin were doing great Adell wouldn't have been up here. 

[Angelsjunky]

10 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

What is the unique nature of this year? Because no fans are in the stadiums? Because of outside Covid fears? Has anyone who is of any consequence opted out from the Angels. Heck even Trout only missed what 3 games? This year is unique in it's shorter, and no fans are in the stands. But everyone is playing the same game. We are facing teams who are in the exact same situation. It's not like the Angels are the only one dealing with Covid while everyone else is not. 

Yes, all of that, which makes it hard to assess where the team is really at - especially because of the shortness of the year. They could continue to suck for all sixty games, but in a longer year start putting it together and show us the potential to come. 60 games is not enough time to assess - that's the main factor I'm trying to highlight.

8 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Maybe not 10 games. But the Angels would not be dead last in the division. We would probably be 2nd or 3rd and within fighting distance. Upton's absolute zero bat so far is crushing. It is a rally killer. 

Yes, I agree that Upton's bat is really hurting the lineup. So is Pujols, and the decline/underperformance of Trout and Ohtani. And more so for the overall performance, the pitching staff.

Replacing Upton with the greatest hitter in major league history (Bonds 2001-04) doesn't put us in 2nd place. Maybe 3rd, which is where I would have expected us to be going into this season. But to be truly competitive, we'd need a lot more.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Angelsjunky

[kevinb]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

We’re arguing that over the course of 30 games that he makes us 7-10 games better which is what you are claiming by saying we’d be at the top of our division. 

Your reading comprehension is incredible. I didn't say we'd be at the top of the division I said we'd be near the top of the division. We would be, we sure as hell wouldn't be at the bottom of the division. We have 7 games where we've lost by 2 or fewer runs. Bonds in the line up would change things. 

[Torridd]

16 hours ago, Bronson said:

I just don’t see a star in Adell. He doesn’t seem to have that “it” factor. That’s something you just can’t teach. I don’t know what it is but he just doesn’t seem like he has what a takes to be a good big league player. 
 

His swing is way to long.

He whiffs at a lot of pitches.

He has zero baseball IQ

His defense isn’t just horrible, it’s horrific.

 

I literally have zero confidence he will ever come through in a clutch spot. Look at Luis Robert or Tatis... those are superstars in the making. Adell isn’t that. 
 

At this point, we have the offense. I would not be mad or shocked if we traded him for some pitching. We don’t have 3 years to develop this kid. He’s a BIG work in progress. We need to win now.

 

Good point, Bronson, but how much of those problems can be attributed to greenness/nervousness/lack of confidence in a slow start?