Trading away Jean Segura

[Dtwncbad]

Remember when the common cry was how miserable it was to not have Jean Segura?  The Angels were so stupid to trade this budding superstar.  . .

Well a quick revisit shows he is no big deal.

He is 30 now with a lifetime OPS of .732.

How are the Angels filling that massive hole at 2B without Segura?

Well just to put things in perspective, Tommy LaStella is 31 with a lifetime OPS of .747.

The “loss” of Jean Segura is a myth.  It’s nothing.

[Stradling]

Well he had a year where he was mid .800’s and we had Giavatella trying to play 2nd base. 

[arch stanton]

Yeah this conversation was happening in 2016 when he was leading the league in hits and Johnny G was rocking that high .280's OBP

[Dtwncbad]

The point is it is a little silly to believe you could have had the benefit of the hot streaks and not have also suffered the cold streaks.

Overall matters.  Segura is a decent major league player.

I don’t see any elevated reason to regret not having Segura (as we have regularly witnessed from fans).

[Blarg]

52 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Remember when the common cry was how miserable it was to not have Jean Segura?  The Angels were so stupid to trade this budding superstar.  . .

Well a quick revisit shows he is no big deal.

He is 30 now with a lifetime OPS of .732.

How are the Angels filling that massive hole at 2B without Segura?

Well just to put things in perspective, Tommy LaStella is 31 with a lifetime OPS of .747.

The “loss” of Jean Segura is a myth.  It’s nothing.

Juan Segura is a Shortstop, so that myth that you created is dispelled. 

[Dtwncbad]

3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Juan Segura is a Shortstop, so that myth that you created is dispelled. 

Fair point but my context is he would be playing 2B for the Angels. 

[TroutField]

Idk Segura turned out to be a pretty damn good lead off hitter, defender, and overall player. He was never going to be an .800 ops Guy consistently. 
 

He would have definitely filled the hole at 2nd after Howie left that we failed to fill for years. 

[Blarg]

40 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Fair point but my context is he would be playing 2B for the Angels. 

But he wouldn't since Howie Kendrick was playing 2nd base until 2014, two years after the trade. At the time Segura was traded away the Angels had both Aybar and Kendrick both age 28 and under contract. So either could have been traded to make room for Segura, the more likely would have been Aybar since Segura was a shortstop and with more power. What would have made more sense was to slide Segura over to third and say goodbye to Callaspo while keeping both Aybar and Kendrick. 

Instead the Genius traded away Segura, Pena and Hellweg for renting Grieke for a couple months. Then he traded away Kendrick for Heaney with no one coming from the minors to replace him. So the chain of stupid trades left the Angels with neither a 3rd or 2nd baseman. 

That's why keeping Segura made more sense than trading him for a rental but Dipoto was trying to make a name for himself by keeping the Angels in the playoffs for one season rather than planning to get them there for more than one. 2013 could have had Segura, Aybar and Kendrick manning the infield for another 4 years, leaving money for pitching.

[Blarg]

7 minutes ago, TroutField said:

Idk Segura turned out to be a pretty damn good lead off hitter, defender, and overall player. He was never going to be an .800 ops Guy consistently. 
 

He would have definitely filled the hole at 2nd after Howie left that we failed to fill for years. 

Howie didn't leave on his own accord. 

[happybat4]

He has 20+ WAR for his career. We could have used that the last half decade. 

[TroutField]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Howie didn't leave on his own accord. 

Did I say he did? 
 

Dipoto was trading from MIF depth that we didn’t have. 

[eligrba]

This is like talking to my wife about something that happened years ago that was forgotten because it became irrelevant. 

[Dtwncbad]

21 minutes ago, Blarg said:

But he wouldn't since Howie Kendrick was playing 2nd base until 2014, two years after the trade. At the time Segura was traded away the Angels had both Aybar and Kendrick both age 28 and under contract. So either could have been traded to make room for Segura, the more likely would have been Aybar since Segura was a shortstop and with more power. What would have made more sense was to slide Segura over to third and say goodbye to Callaspo while keeping both Aybar and Kendrick. 

Instead the Genius traded away Segura, Pena and Hellweg for renting Grieke for a couple months. Then he traded away Kendrick for Heaney with no one coming from the minors to replace him. So the chain of stupid trades left the Angels with neither a 3rd or 2nd baseman. 

That's why keeping Segura made more sense than trading him for a rental but Dipoto was trying to make a name for himself by keeping the Angels in the playoffs for one season rather than planning to get them there for more than one. 2013 could have had Segura, Aybar and Kendrick manning the infield for another 4 years, leaving money for pitching.

All fair.  No argument.  I am strictly saying I think  Segura isn’t the great player many people thought he would be when he showed some pretty hot pockets.

I personally don’t think grabbing Greinke was a bad idea and I have no hindsight regrets over trading Segura.

[Tank]

next up: why we never should have traded tom brunansky.

[m0nkey]

I went to college with one of tom brunabsky’s sons 

[Claude]

We missed out on DJ LeMahieu and Starlin Castro. Both very versatile. 

[Stradling]

Is this where I remind people that our current middle infield isn’t a problem?  When Simmons returns in the next week or so we have Fletcher at 2nd.  

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

The point is it is a little silly to believe you could have had the benefit of the hot streaks and not have also suffered the cold streaks.

Overall matters.  Segura is a decent major league player.

I don’t see any elevated reason to regret not having Segura (as we have regularly witnessed from fans).

Dude posted 18+ bWAR from age 23-28 through his team controlled years  -- all of it for other teams.   I've never lamented that trade...  in fact, I have always argued that Dipoto actually managed to get absolute max value for him..   but pretending that losing that sort of production was no big deal is as "silly" as silly gets...   Particularly when you consider the holes at 2B and 3B over those years. 

2 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Well just to put things in perspective, Tommy LaStella is 31 with a lifetime OPS of .747.

The “loss” of Jean Segura is a myth.  It’s nothing.

LOL..   When speaking about perspective it's best not to have blinders on.   

LaStella's bWAR over the course of his entire career is 3.6.  If you prefer the FG formula then it's 4.1.   Segura meanwhile has had seasons of 5.0, 4.0, and 3.7 fWAR.   Segura has also amassed 22 .1 BsR and 28.8 Def...  La Stella, -4.2 and -5.6 respectively.

One of these guys was a well rounded baseball player capable of helping with the bat, with the glove, and on the basepaths.  The other guy is league average hitter.

[Blarg]

26 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

All fair.  No argument.  I am strictly saying I think  Segura isn’t the great player many people thought he would be when he showed some pretty hot pockets.

I personally don’t think grabbing Greinke was a bad idea and I have no hindsight regrets over trading Segura.

Teams usually only have a couple great players and then others are good to league average. The Angels could have really used an overall good to above league average infield, which would have been the case if Dipoto hadn't traded it away. 

[PattyD22]

27 minutes ago, Tank said:

next up: why we never should have traded tom brunansky.

I know I’ve mentioned it before, but since this thread is rehashing the old days, I struck out Tom Brunansky in our Varsity vs. Alumni game in HS.

Couldn’t hit my wicked 12/6 breaker.  
 

By the way, a really great guy also.

[Dtwncbad]

52 minutes ago, Tank said:

next up: why we never should have traded tom brunansky.

That was a much more stupid move than trading Segura.

[Dtwncbad]

25 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Teams usually only have a couple great players and then others are good to league average. The Angels could have really used an overall good to above league average infield, which would have been the case if Dipoto hadn't traded it away. 

Yes and they also “could have really used” a potential postseason-changing ace starter that appeared to be a reasonable play to take a run at it.

I am not at all saying Segura is garbage.  Just saying I can’t see how, especially now that we see a larger sample of who Segura is, this trade was a loss for the Angels. They paid a fair price for the ace rental.

And for a long time it seemed the consensus complaint was that “Segura was a real gem that was foolishly traded away . . . If only the Angels still had the previous Segura!”  This what I am disagreeing with.  He’s just not that big of a deal.
 

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Remember when the common cry was how miserable it was to not have Jean Segura?  The Angels were so stupid to trade this budding superstar.  . .

Well a quick revisit shows he is no big deal.

He is 30 now with a lifetime OPS of .732.

How are the Angels filling that massive hole at 2B without Segura?

Well just to put things in perspective, Tommy LaStella is 31 with a lifetime OPS of .747.

The “loss” of Jean Segura is a myth.  It’s nothing.

I wonder this was brought up out of the blue?

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, stormngt said:

I wonder this was brought up out of the blue?

No reason.  Bored.

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

The point is it is a little silly to believe you could have had the benefit of the hot streaks and not have also suffered the cold streaks.

Overall matters.  Segura is a decent major league player.

I don’t see any elevated reason to regret not having Segura (as we have regularly witnessed from fans).

After the loss of Kendrick and before La Stella we didnt have a decent second baseman.  

For the record I supported the trade IF we made the playoffs OR extended Grienke.  Neither happened so I felt he was it was a bad trade for just half a year of Grienke.  Our 2b sucked until Fletcher and La Stella last year.  I did not follow Segura much after we traded him.

  However I know he had a couple of all star years and he played well against the Angel's.  From 2016 to 2018 his OPS + was 122, 111, 113.  He was 105 in 2013.

Meanwhile the Angel's 2b between 2016 to 2018 was 96 (Gio) 39 (Espinosa) 94 (Kinsler).