Which of the following is responsible for 2010 and beyond failures?

[Docwaukee]

I truly believe this set off a cascade of events that shaped the next decade for the halos.  

perhaps it wasn't specifically that at bat but it was definitely that series and the disappointing 2010 season to follow. 

the missteps started right around there.  

[Angel Oracle]

On 8/11/2020 at 7:30 PM, Dochalo said:

I truly believe this set off a cascade of events that shaped the next decade for the halos.  

perhaps it wasn't specifically that at bat but it was definitely that series and the disappointing 2010 season to follow. 

the missteps started right around there.  

Bump, thanks for nothing, Daisy Fuentes, the only pitcher who would give up a HR in 30s degree weather.

[eligrba]

9 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Bump, thanks for nothing, Daisy Fuentes, the only pitcher who would give up a HR in 30s degree weather.

I think everyone saw it coming except the guy who put Fuentes in to pitch.

[Vlad27Trout27]

I think we should stop giving out big name contracts to player over 30. that should be 1st

focus more on the international market, which disappeared during Dipshit tender.

Improve our development system

I'm starting to feel like, we're behind team on the technology ideas thrown around in the league. Especially ways to improve and develop players 

[Angel Oracle]

I finally answered my own poll, after a lot of thinking, reading posts, and talking with two fellow longtime Halos fans.

I agree that most of the choices is a good vote.   But, that got me thinking of the one common factor in ALL of them.

It now comes into focus.   Think about it.   Who hires the GMs?  Who likely gives the input into how to spend his money?

Arte Moreno 

The common theme over the past decade is three things.   Big money acquisitions that mainly flame out, lesser but decent enough acquisitions that swing and miss way more often than they should, and development of players in the org.

I am wondering now if Moreno is only interested in making a big splash and doesn’t think at all in a long term way, and skimps on the scouting and development part of the budget.

The ONLY times his way in the off-season truly worked were before 2004 (Vlad) and before 2008 (Torii).

Since he’s owned the team, has there ever been a true focus on long term success in a traditional baseball manner?

To restore the view for long term success, it may now be time for him to sell the team.  He is in his mid 70s.

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[robblin17]

5 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

I finally answered my own poll, after a lot of thinking, reading posts, and talking with two fellow longtime Halos fans.

I agree that most of the choices is a good vote.   But, that got me thinking of the one common factor in ALL of them.

It now comes into focus.   Think about it.   Who hires the GMs?  Who likely gives the input into how to spend his money?

Arte Moreno 

The common theme over the past decade is three things.   Big money acquisitions that mainly flame out, lesser but decent enough acquisitions that swing and miss way more often than they should, and development of players in the org.

I am wondering now if Moreno is only interested in making a big splash and doesn’t think at all in a long term way, and skimps on the scouting and development part of the budget.

The ONLY times his way in the off-season truly worked were before 2004 (Vlad) and before 2008 (Torii).

Since he’s owned the team, has there ever been a true focus on long term success in a traditional baseball manner?

To restore the view for long term success, it may now be time for him to sell the team.  He is in his mid 70s.

 

Moreno cares about the money. He puts on a facade about wanting to win (and I’m sure he does to a degree), but the reality is that 3M fans and a new development deal is all that really matters. The same could be said about a lot of owners, but Arte’s failures have been big and magnified ones compared to many others. 

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

Moreno cares about the money. He puts on a facade about wanting to win (and I’m sure he does to a degree), but the reality is that 3M fans and a new development deal is all that really matters. The same could be said about a lot of owners, but Arte’s failures have been big and magnified ones compared to many others. 

That doesn’t explain giving out a billion dollars in contracts to three people.  If he only cared about money he wouldn’t spend as much and he’d trade the one guy that he’s given  Almost $600 million to over two long contracts. 

[Blarg]

Just now, robblin17 said:

Moreno cares about the money. He puts on a facade about wanting to win (and I’m sure he does to a degree), but the reality is that 3M fans and a new development deal is all that really matters. The same could be said about a lot of owners, but Arte’s failures have been big and magnified ones compared to many others. 

This is such a stupid take.

All owners care about the money. Even the Yankees have a budget but they also have the largest income streams to afford blowing past the cap. 

The Angels didn't spend more than 3/4 of the league trying not to win and only putting up a facade. The Angels are ranked 6th this season. 3rd in the AL.

Every owner makes mistakes in either being too hands on or not. Moreno's mistakes are magnified because you know the Angels and no other team. 

 

 

[Angel Oracle]

I do realize that Steinbrenner operated in a similar way from the mid 70s through the 1980s, and it cost him any post-season appearances from 1982-1994.

But, even he learned the lesson eventually and put emphasis back on scouting and development and strategic (not big splash) acquisitions by the end of the 1980s, which produced the dominant 1996-2001 teams: Jeter, Williams, Posada, Rivera, Leyritz, O’Neill, Tino Martinez, Cone, Pettite, Key, etc.

If Arte is to have success, he needs to get away from how he has done it over the past decade, like Steinbrenner did starting at the end of the 1980s.

Every long term success org did it through traditional means and not relying on big splashes and then underspending on the important things for long term success.

Anddd, you focus the big contracts on keeping the right players beyond their FA year.  How many big splash FA signings truly work in MLB?   Finally, there can be no more big contracts for guys outside the org over age 30, and be careful with your own players over 30 too.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Blarg]

The last thing Moreno needs to do is pattern the Angels after Steinbrenner's ownership. 

[notherhalo]

The day the Vernon Wells trade happened was the worst day in Angels history, deaths notwithstanding.

The biggest reason we have been unsuccessful for many seasons is that we didnt overpay for Adrian Beltre.  #JuanRivera84milliondollarextension

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

The last thing Moreno needs to do is pattern the Angels after Steinbrenner's ownership. 

Not all of it, just the time where Steinbrenner essentially got out of his own way (1990-2001), and that might be Arte Moreno in a nutshell.

He’s a marketing guy, and it’s carried over to how he has the org set up.   It takes more than marketing to be a true on field success.

He improved the value of the org what, 10 fold?   For that, he can be commended.   But it does not produce on field success of any kind anymore.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Blarg]

MLB almost pulled the franchise from Steinbrenner. He was an asshole. Which means he represented his fan base. 

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I do realize that Steinbrenner operated in a similar way from the mid 70s through the 1980s, and it cost him any post-season appearances from 1982-1994.

But, even he learned the lesson eventually and put emphasis back on scouting and development and strategic (not big splash) acquisitions by the end of the 1980s, which produced the dominant 1996-2001 teams: Jeter, Williams, Posada, Rivera, Leyritz, O’Neill, Tino Martinez, Cone, Pettite, Key, etc.

If Arte is to have success, he needs to get away from how he has done it over the past decade, like Steinbrenner did starting at the end of the 1980s.

Every long term success org did it through traditional means and not relying on big splashes and then underspending on the important things for long term success.

Anddd, you focus the big contracts on keeping the right players beyond their FA year.  How many big splash FA signings truly work in MLB?   Finally, there can be no more big contracts for guys outside the org over age 30, and be careful with your own players over 30 too.

He didnt learn shit!   (I'm sure he did)

That dude was barred from being involved after he tried to frame Winfield.   it wasn't until he was banned for life (2 years) that the Yankees put the emphasis back in the farm system and turned it all around.. 

Do we have to start a #JailArte campaign?

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

He didnt learn shit!   (I'm sure he did)

That dude was barred from being involved after he tried to frame Winfield.   it wasn't until he was banned for life (2 years) that the Yankees put the emphasis back in the farm system and turned it all around.. 

Do we have to start a #JailArte campaign?

That is a very good point, that the shift in emphasis started while he was suspended.

Since Arte won’t be suspended, that only leaves selling the team, if we are to see long term success again?

Until winning seasons start up again, the question will always be there about Arte’s true intentions.   

Edited August 16, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

That is a very good point, that the shift in emphasis started while he was suspended.

Since Arte won’t be suspended, that only leaves selling the team, if we are to see long term success again?

I dont hate Arte.    The Angels may have won the WS under Disney but they weren't established as consistently good until Arte took over and ended the small market talk.   This team is paying for the mistakes made post Stoneman and pre Eppler.   Farm systems are the lifeblood of MLB teams.  Ours was bled dry.  

[Angelsjunky]

6 hours ago, Vlad27Trout27 said:

I think we should stop giving out big name contracts to player over 30. that should be 1st

focus more on the international market, which disappeared during Dipshit tender.

Improve our development system

I'm starting to feel like, we're behind team on the technology ideas thrown around in the league. Especially ways to improve and develop players 

Agreed. The percentage of big free agent contracts that actually turn out well is not favorable. Pujols, Hamilton, Wells (trade, but still), and Upton have all been bad and hamstrung the team.

The Dodgers are a good example what a great scouting and international program will get you. If Arte wants to spend money, spend it there. 

[Angel Oracle]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I dont hate Arte.    The Angels may have won the WS under Disney but they weren't established as consistently good until Arte took over and ended the small market talk.   This team is paying for the mistakes made post Stoneman and pre Eppler.   Farm systems are the lifeblood of MLB teams.  Ours was bled dry.  

He’s certainty not the carnival barker type that Steinbrenner was, thank goodness for that.   

AJ said it best.   Long term success more likely comes from spending enough on having good scouts and development folks.

I guess the question is, how far away are the Halos from putting up consistently solid enough seasons?  They are about to have losing season #5 in a row (albeit a short season).  Only one stretch was worse, 1971-1977.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Angel Oracle]

Sometimes, it just seems like Arte Moreno lately only cares about his proposed entertainment district, which doesn’t do jack for the team’s on field success.

[Lou]

43 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Sometimes, it just seems like Arte Moreno lately only cares about his proposed entertainment district, which doesn’t do jack for the team’s on field success.

Oh, come on now. He just gave Rendon a quarter of a billion dollars.

[Angel Oracle]

3 minutes ago, Lou said:

Oh, come on now. He just gave Rendon a quarter of a billion dollars.

His first big money success story from outside the org since Torii, 12 years ago.

I just want to see an org that takes scouting and developing more seriously, granted the improvement in Latin America is a start.

[Lou]

9 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

His first big money success story from outside the org since Torii, 12 years ago.

Their success has nothing to do with it. The fact that he is willing to shell out the big money disproves your assertion that he only cares about his proposed entertainment district.

[Angel Oracle]

19 minutes ago, Lou said:

Their success has nothing to do with it. The fact that he is willing to shell out the big money disproves your assertion that he only cares about his proposed entertainment district.

Here’s the question though?

Does he care more about big splashes to attract paying customers, then putting a winning product on the field?

Way too many acquisitions have well underachieved here.

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Here’s the question though?

Does he care more about big splashes to attract paying customers, then putting a winning product on the field?

Way too many acquisitions have well underachieved here.

That's  on the players. He can't play for them. 

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, Lou said:

That's  on the players. He can't play for them. 

Exactly.