Which of the following is responsible for 2010 and beyond failures?

[Angel Oracle]

Multiple answers are okay.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[failos]

[failos]

You forgot Jerry Dipshit

[AngelsFaninGA]

All of the above, plus Dipoto

[Angel Oracle]

Dumbpoto added, thanks for the reminder folks.   Even I'm in a slump. 

Those who voted before this post, may want to check your votes to confirm they are the ones you wanted.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[stormngt]

It's a combination of factors

The biggest is Dipshito.  He destroyed the farm and crippled the team with big contracts. 

Then add Arte Moreno as his det in stone spending cap prevented any significant move to improve the team.

Third is the rash of injuries.

[Tank]

I think this kind of discussion is missing two key elements: players who didn’t perform as expected, and players who lost time due to injuries. To just pin it on just one layer of the onion isn’t an honest discussion.

[kevinb]

Everyone deserves blame. 

[T.G.]

The Russians

 

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Tank said:

I think this kind of discussion is missing two key elements: players who didn’t perform as expected, and players who lost time due to injuries. To just pin it on just one layer of the onion isn’t an honest discussion.

True, but I guess I am more looking for the origination point for the issues.

[Claude]

[Blarg]

[Jeff Fletcher]

The No 1 reason is the farm system deteriorated.

That’s Dipoto’s fault for drafting low ceiling guys and it’s Arte’s fault for preferring big FA deals that also cost them draft picks. And of course all the scouting and development people who contributed also get some blame. 
 

No 2 is the Angels decision to try to rebuild that farm system slowly rather than tanking.
 

Why did they go that route? Well, Arte doesn’t want to tank because he doesn’t want the team to suck. It’s also, ironically, a bit of bad luck in the fact that the Angels have Mike Trout. If you have just a “garden variety” star it’s not so hard to trade him for 4-5 prospects and rebuild. If you have a HOFer, generational talent, you can’t trade him. You have to try to win with him. But If you don’t have a farm system..... 
 

You don’t produce talent for your team and you don’t have talent to trade to fill holes. Instead of plugging one hole with a $30M star, you have to plug four holes with four $8M players and that’s dicey. The guys who are cheaper and/or trade accessible also get hurt more. 
 

And here they are. 

[mmc]

How is it not obviously all of them?

[Taylor]

DeNiro?

[mmc]

Also a lot of it is just the losing culture our organization allows and the low standards and accountability people seem to held to. This goes everywhere from the ownership, the GM and the front office, the managers and coaches, and the players.  It is not right that everyone should suck immediately when they come here.  Everyone around needs to hold both themselves and each other to a higher standard no matter what their role is in regards to this team.  I guess this mostly goes under Moreno because ultimately he sets the standard.

[FabulousFabregas]

Obama.

[Stradling]

8 hours ago, mymerlincat said:

Also a lot of it is just the losing culture our organization allows and the low standards and accountability people seem to held to. This goes everywhere from the ownership, the GM and the front office, the managers and coaches, and the players.  It is not right that everyone should suck immediately when they come here.  Everyone around needs to hold both themselves and each other to a higher standard no matter what their role is in regards to this team.  I guess this mostly goes under Moreno because ultimately he sets the standard.

This is a crock of shit.  It’s 100% fan nonsense. 

[jonickell25]

The trading of top prospects for rentals was an absolute killer. Wouldn't it be nice to have Clevinger right now? Personally, I also think the firing of Eddie Bane was a huge mistake. Socks watching guys like Corbin and Clevinger become great pitchers for other teams and would've been cost controlled.

[eligrba]

9 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The No 1 reason is the farm system deteriorated.

That’s Dipoto’s fault for drafting low ceiling guys and it’s Arte’s fault for preferring big FA deals that also cost them draft picks. And of course all the scouting and development people who contributed also get some blame. 
 

No 2 is the Angels decision to try to rebuild that farm system slowly rather than tanking.
 

Why did they go that route? Well, Arte doesn’t want to tank because he doesn’t want the team to suck. It’s also, ironically, a bit of bad luck in the fact that the Angels have Mike Trout. If you have just a “garden variety” star it’s not so hard to trade him for 4-5 prospects and rebuild. If you have a HOFer, generational talent, you can’t trade him. You have to try to win with him. But If you don’t have a farm system..... 
 

You don’t produce talent for your team and you don’t have talent to trade to fill holes. Instead of plugging one hole with a $30M star, you have to plug four holes with four $8M players and that’s dicey. The guys who are cheaper and/or trade accessible also get hurt more. 
 

And here they are. 

Thread should be locked.  This is the best synopsis explaining the current situation. 

[Angel Oracle]

10 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The No 1 reason is the farm system deteriorated.

That’s Dipoto’s fault for drafting low ceiling guys and it’s Arte’s fault for preferring big FA deals that also cost them draft picks. And of course all the scouting and development people who contributed also get some blame. 
 

No 2 is the Angels decision to try to rebuild that farm system slowly rather than tanking.
 

Why did they go that route? Well, Arte doesn’t want to tank because he doesn’t want the team to suck. It’s also, ironically, a bit of bad luck in the fact that the Angels have Mike Trout. If you have just a “garden variety” star it’s not so hard to trade him for 4-5 prospects and rebuild. If you have a HOFer, generational talent, you can’t trade him. You have to try to win with him. But If you don’t have a farm system..... 
 

You don’t produce talent for your team and you don’t have talent to trade to fill holes. Instead of plugging one hole with a $30M star, you have to plug four holes with four $8M players and that’s dicey. The guys who are cheaper and/or trade accessible also get hurt more. 
 

And here they are. 

I'm on board with all of this.

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, jonickell25 said:

The trading of top prospects for rentals was an absolute killer. Wouldn't it be nice to have Clevinger right now? Personally, I also think the firing of Eddie Bane was a huge mistake. Socks watching guys like Corbin and Clevinger become great pitchers for other teams and would've been cost controlled.

If not mistaken Clevenger was a low rated prospect

Edited August 10, 2020 by stormngt

[Claude]

Very simple explanation for all of this.

WIN NOW.....“WE DON’T REBUILD, WE JUST RELOAD.”

[DCAngelsFan]

1 hour ago, jonickell25 said:

The trading of top prospects for rentals was an absolute killer. Wouldn't it be nice to have Clevinger right now? Personally, I also think the firing of Eddie Bane was a huge mistake. Socks watching guys like Corbin and Clevinger become great pitchers for other teams and would've been cost controlled.

Hmm, Bane had one miraculous draft - then he reverted to his mean in 2010, and reverted hard.

He had a bit of a retrograde approach to evaluating hitters - when I saw his quote about when he's scouting a guy who took a walk, he was walking back to his car - he wanted "hitters" - I was pretty much over him then. 

But he's not the "villain" here - Dipoto, to include his couldn't-possibly-have-done-worse international players handling is probably the "star" of this shit show.  

Arte has a role, too - things like the Wells trade and Hamiton signings are obvious - but I'm not convinced he didn't under-resource the operations of the team, like scouting drafting and development. 

With all his money, the team shouldn't be badly out-performed in obtaining talent by teams like the Rays and the A's. 

And yet, here we are.

 

[GrittyVeterans]

It's everything but Arte Moreno is ultimately responsible for the direction of his franchise. He fucked up for about 5-6 years in a row and it has really cost us. Things have gotten better the last few years in terms of decision making but what you are seeing now is that it's tough to dig yourself out of the hole we were placed in.

I'm not exactly sure where we should go from here. We have so much money tied up in Trout and Rendon that we have to keep trying to win now I guess.