AngelsWin.com Today: What “If” Arte Went Big on This Year’s Draft

[Angels in 2030]

100 guys is a bit ridiculous and not realistic.  It would be a good move and give you more bites at the apple for developing a young guy into a ML player, but just not happening.  40, making 44 total, is a normal number i'd say.  So in this environment, i'd say 20-30 might be the average this year.  I'm just fearful we sign only 5-10 guys.

Regarding scouts, i think you would be a bit naive if you think the relationship they've built with players and their families do not go a loooong way to signing an UDFA.  There is no money difference, so something small like relationship will be a big factor.  If one team's scout you've seen all the time and talked to a bit is now gone and out of the picture temporarily and 20+ other team's guys are still there -- you don't think those other teams will negatively recruit against the Angels and it will impact their chances?  It will for many guys.  Some may just be from the area and love the Angels and sign no matter what the situation (like i would).  But others....it'll impact some guys decision. 

[DCAngelsFan]

29 minutes ago, Lou said:

Re: signing 100 players.

Where are all the guys going to play? 

Actually, I think he's proposing a kind of extended rookie / instructional training camp.

I think players that have other options will pass on $20k and take those options - a college scholarship, for example.

Those that don't will probably look to whoever offers the best prospect for them going forward.  And if you can promise them that instructional-league coaching plan that's more thought out, and offers them a better opportunity than other teams are offering, then that's where many would sign.  The $20k isn't a motivator - the chance to get focused coaching, better opponents, and exposure would mean more than the paltry money.  

(if you could setup a training camp in SoCal, so much the better - let the guys live at home or rent a college dorm for the summer.)

But, sadly, I think it's more likely Arte "punts" than he goes all in - he's never shown he cares that much about scouting, drafting,and development.  

 

[Lou]

11 minutes ago, Fourts said:

100 guys is a bit ridiculous and not realistic.  It would be a good move and give you more bites at the apple for developing a young guy into a ML player, but just not happening.  40, making 44 total, is a normal number i'd say.  So in this environment, i'd say 20-30 might be the average this year.  I'm just fearful we sign only 5-10 guys.

The mistake (not your proposal) in saying it's easy for Arte to do this is thinking the only cost associated with bring in 50-100 players is the $20k.  That's ridiculously naive.

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Btw, the other variable....  NPB teams are supposedly in the mix for college players who will go undrafted, and unlike MLB teams, they won't be limited to 20k signing bonuses.

Carter Stewart got the ball rolling last year when he took 7 mil to sign with a Japanese team after the Braves tried to lowball him and he went the Juco route...  

Japanese teams have caps on the number of foreign born players teams are allowed to sign, so this might be a limiting factor. I'm not sure how good the money is in Korea right now.

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

What do the protests have to do with the draft? 

I thought the draft was the reason people started protesting.

[Lou]

7 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Japanese teams have caps on the number of foreign born players teams are allowed to sign, so this might be a limiting factor. I'm not sure how good the money is in Korea right now.

KBO teams are allowed 3 foreign players on their rosters, with no more 2 being pitchers.

[Lou]

Just now, AngelsLakersFan said:

I thought the draft was the reason people started protesting.

Not until the 10th player is selected.

[Inside Pitch]

49 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Japanese teams have caps on the number of foreign born players teams are allowed to sign, so this might be a limiting factor. I'm not sure how good the money is in Korea right now.

I think the bigger issue may be that if they were to simply take the top 15 guys, they already took the lion's share of the better signs.   You gotta figure the whole having to play in Japan will keep some guys from even considering it at hello.

[AngelsLakersFan]

16 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I think the bigger issue may be that if they were to simply take the top 15 guys, they already took the lion's share of the better signs.   You gotta figure the whole having to play in Japan will keep some guys from even considering it at hello.

Not sure how many prospects Japanese teams would be interested in. Do they have a minor league there? I wonder how many guys in the draft could hang in the Japanese league right now who aren't expecting MLB offers this year or next year.

[Inside Pitch]

46 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Not sure how many prospects Japanese teams would be interested in. Do they have a minor league there? I wonder how many guys in the draft could hang in the Japanese league right now who aren't expecting MLB offers this year or next year

They do...  The Eastern and Western leagues, both used for player development.   FG had an article recently that mentions the lack of hard throwers over there and how there may be an interest in college arms.    How much interest there will be is anyone's guess but my point is that MLB teams might actually get competition for players for a change.

[Dave Saltzer]

In response to several questions:

 

Where would they play? I believe Arizona is open for business and we have more than enough fields to handle that many players. We may need to put them up somewhere, but again, I did factor in a budget for doing that.

 

Why so many players? Well, in order to really develop, they need not only drills, but in game experience. To gain that, they need to scrimmage, so, with that many players, they could sign and develop two teams of HS players and two teams of college players to scrimmage and get in-game experience. That would be an extreme number, because they could mix in the Minor Leaguers drafted in the last year or two to continue to develop them. Since not all clubs are going to do this, we would need enough players to have enough for full scrimmages to give as much in-game like experience as we can.

 

What budget has been cut? The scouts and player development people who have been let go. As someone else pointed out, the whole point of doing this is to have the scouts who have the relationships to get players to sign. The money ($20l) won't be enough to get players to sign necessarily. But, the relationships and the commitment to develop the players this year would go a LONG way to convincing plenty of players to sign. As pointed out, there will be a logjam of players next year, making the draft class much larger (and driving down the potential for a high bonus), so having the connections and the commitment to develop this summer, we could probably convince more players to sign with us. 

 

While I know that won't happen, it's what I would do if I were running the team.

[Angels 1961]

Where are all these players going to play? Minor league teams are going to be cut. Spend money on Mookie Betts, cut Albert put Upton at 1B.

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Where are all these players going to play? Minor league teams are going to be cut

Exactly.

 

On 6/10/2020 at 9:57 AM, Lou said:

Re: signing 100 players.

Where are all the guys going to play? 

 

[Inside Pitch]

6 hours ago, Dave Saltzer said:

What budget has been cut? The scouts and player development people who have been let go. As someone else pointed out, the whole point of doing this is to have the scouts who have the relationships to get players to sign. The money ($20l) won't be enough to get players to sign necessarily. But, the relationships and the commitment to develop the players this year would go a LONG way to convincing plenty of players to sign. As pointed out, there will be a logjam of players next year, making the draft class much larger (and driving down the potential for a high bonus h), so having the connections and the commitment to develop this.

Okay, so you're admitting that nothing was cut from the scouting budget and that you're incorrectly phrasing guys being furloughed as a "budget cuts"...  I'm trying to be factually correct, when you speak of "cuts" the implication is that the Angels dialed back the scouting department budget -- they did not.

More importantly, you may have missed this but during the MLB Network pre-draft coverage it was revealed by the four MLB GMs taking part in the interview that MLB had prohibited teams from even doing Zoom meetings with players during the Coronavirus lockdown until a few days right before the draft...  So again, going back to my previous statement, the only way those "connections/relationships" were going to happen or existed is if they had already happened.

My opinion is and continues to be that the furloughs were heavy handed, possibly shortsighted, but understanding the process goes a long ways towards making the proper criticisms.  Scouts couldn't scout.... Games weren't being played.... Now hearing that MLB had essentially prevented teams from engaging with players until just before the draft it becomes a little more clear as to why they Angels may have gone the route they did and harder to argue that they hurt themselves much.  That's the reality of the situation.  

To me the biggest issue is with the furloughs is the possibility they might lose quality scouts to other organizations.  So hopefully the relationship created between the team and their scouts will keep that from happening.

[Docwaukee]

are we sure that the furloughed scouts were even on the amateur side?  they could have been intl, mlb or milb scouts.  Arte is a good enough business man to not do anything that would damage the long term viability of his product.  So I would imagine that anyone furloughed really had almost nothing to do relative to their normal workload.  

the concept of going big is actually interesting.  Scouting, to some degree, is actually just a more complicated sales force with various restrictions and designations under normal circumstances.  In regard to the current situation, you have actually liberated your sales force to some degree with opening up the pool of recruits while putting a massive restriction on your main sales tool.  cash monies.  

So you absolutely need your sales force to create a plausible narrative or 'sales pitch' that isn't about the money.  Then you do what good sales forces do.  You pound the pavement.  Hit the numbers hard because at the end of the day, sales is all about activity.  You prioritize your targets and get in front of as many of these kids as possible is some way shape or form.  Make your pitch and be ready to move on to the next fairly quickly.  

these are not the glengary leads you're being given.  but you might end up with half a dozen or so decent prospects that you might not have otherwise if you put in the time and effort.  

[Lou]

Are we at 100 yet?

[Inside Pitch]

15 hours ago, Lou said:

Are we at 100 yet?

Angels took a knee.   MLB as a whole has signed around 130 players total, combined.  Of those, only 26 were ranked among BBA's pre-draft top 500.

To put it all into perspective, the draft used to go 40 rounds, so up to a maximum of 1200 players can be drafted in any one draft.  This year there were a total of 150. Combine the players drafted (150), the players signed (less than150 so far) and you still end up 900+ players below what is typically drafted.  So even if all of MLB failed to sign half of their usual drafted players it would be twice the number that usually get signed.

Seems pretty clear MLB's plan to trim 42 teams (and 1050 player jobs), from the minors impacted how teams went about things this year.

[Lou]

18 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Angels took a knee.   MLB as a whole has signed around 130 players total, combined.  Of those, only 26 were ranked among BBA's pre-draft top 500.

To put it all too perspective, the draft used to go 40 rounds, so up to a maximum of 1200 players can be drafted in any one draft.  This year there were a total of 150. Combine the players drafted (150), the players signed (less than150 so far) and you still end up 900+ players below what is typically drafted.  So even if all of MLB failed to sign half of their usual drafted players it would be twice the number that usually get signed.

Seems pretty clear MLBs plan to trim 42 teams (and 1050 player jobs), from the minors impacted how teams went about things this year.

F'n Arte 

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 6/9/2020 at 5:36 PM, AngelsLakersFan said:

I don't really think this is a feasible strategy. With only 5 rounds and then a ton of uncertainty I think just about everyone signs this year. Now there isn't going to be a lot of room for teams to go way over slot on anyone so a couple of top picks with a ton of leverage may be more likely to consider holding out than in a typical year but everyone else is going to take slot and be happy.

After that no one is signing. $20k is only getting back of the draft talent and everyone else is going to take a shot at next year. There might be a few talented college seniors who might be interested but this won't be a large group of under valued talent.

I agree

[Lou]

On 6/9/2020 at 5:36 PM, AngelsLakersFan said:

I don't really think this is a feasible strategy. With only 5 rounds and then a ton of uncertainty I think just about everyone signs this year. Now there isn't going to be a lot of room for teams to go way over slot on anyone so a couple of top picks with a ton of leverage may be more likely to consider holding out than in a typical year but everyone else is going to take slot and be happy.

After that no one is signing. $20k is only getting back of the draft talent and everyone else is going to take a shot at next year. There might be a few talented college seniors who might be interested but this won't be a large group of under valued talent.

F'n Rudyard Kipling

[AngelsLakersFan]

25 minutes ago, Lou said:

F'n Rudyard Kipling

Woah now, who you callin' Retard?

[Lou]

28 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Woah now, who you callin' Retard?

Well . . .

[Tank]

On 7/4/2020 at 9:34 AM, Lou said:

F'n Rudyard Kipling

"Politicians. Little Tin Gods on Wheels."

kipling understood.