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aznhockeyguy

Is Sosh a HOF manager?

Is Sosh a HOF manager?  

50 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Sosh a HOF manager?

    • Yes
      42
    • No
      8


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Could definitely go either way.  Kinda of a dying breed of manager staying with one franchise for a very long time in current day sports.  Who knows if he gets another managerial job, but let's say he doesn't.  Only 23 managers are in the HOF and many of them are absolute legends, Mack, Sparky, Durocher, Herzog, La Russa, Lasorda, McGraw, Weaver.

Stats:

19 years all with Angels.

1650-1428 .536 winning percentage

21-27 Playoff record

1 WS title

6 division titles - including 5 in a 6 year span

1 Simpsons appearance

Discuss.

I would vote yes, but barely.  Very interesting discussion.

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I'd say yes and just barely. He won Manager of the Year 2 times and was top 5 in Manager of the Year voting 8 different times during his career. I say he gets in just might be awhile before he does. I also think he is probably done managing baseball. Maybe he goes to the TV booth and it sparks some interest again in him, but from what I have seen of him through his time with the Angels. I just don't see that happening. 

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I think it also helps that managers are voted on by the Veterans Committee.  Sosh has a good rep around baseball from his playing and managing days.  I think it'll help him get elected when his name comes up and because of this, I voted yes.

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I voted no but now I think I change my mind to yes. It’s so hard. You can make the case either way. If he wins another World Series (which should have happened in 2005) then he gets into the HOF easily.

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As I said in another thread, I think he's borderline but lean toward yes. A lot of what he did was intangible. He inherited a franchise that had built up a long run of plain mediocrity and really changed that culture, completely turned the organization around. Of course he didn't do it alone, but the product on the field and in the clubhouse was his. He consistently got more out of what he was given than anyone expected. That has to count for something. Plus he survived multiple regime changes over the course of his career, which shows how highly he was valued.

Also, his Simpsons appearance was legendary. That might push his candidacy across home plate. I'm glad the OP included that.

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1 hour ago, Lou said:

There are 5 managers in the HOF that disagree.

And I disagree with them. If all it takes is one there is a HOF manager every year. I can't wait until Jack Mckeon is elected. 

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3 hours ago, Jeremiah said:

As I said in another thread, I think he's borderline but lean toward yes. A lot of what he did was intangible. He inherited a franchise that had built up a long run of plain mediocrity and really changed that culture, completely turned the organization around. Of course he didn't do it alone, but the product on the field and in the clubhouse was his. He consistently got more out of what he was given than anyone expected. That has to count for something. Plus he survived multiple regime changes over the course of his career, which shows how highly he was valued.

Also, his Simpsons appearance was legendary. That might push his candidacy across home plate. I'm glad the OP included that.

I was actually referencing his appearance as Angels manager in the episode "MoneyBart" and not the one with the other baseball players in the legendary episode "Homer at the Bat" since that appearance was as a Dodgers player.  Of course I'm sure it can only help his legacy.

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Those in the hall and records.

Eliminate some non comparables.  First Connie Mack, only manager in the hall with a losing record.  

Connie Mack 53 7,755 3,731 3,948 .486

Over 25 years managing

Sparky Anderson (bio) 26 4,030 2,194 1,834 .545
Bobby Cox 29 4,508 2,504 2,001

.556

Bucky Harris 29 4,408 2,157 2,218 .493
Tony La Russa 33 5,097 2,728 2,365

.536

John McGraw 33 4,769 2,763 1,948 .586
Bill McKechnie 25 3,647 1,896 1,723 .524
Casey Stengel 25 3,766 1,905 1,842 .508
Joe Torre 29 4,329 2,326 1,997 .538

 

Over a .550 win percentage.

Walter Alston (bio) 23 3,658 2,040 1,613 .558
Miller Huggins 17 2,570 1,413 1,134 .555
Al Lopez 17 2,425 1,410 1,004 .584
Joe McCarthy 24 3,487 2,125 1,333 .615
Frank Selee 16 2,180 1,284 862 .598
Billy Southworth 13 981 620 346 .642
Earl Weaver 17 2,541 1,480 1,060 .583

 

That leaves:

Leo Durocher 24 3,739 2,008 1,709 .540
Ned Hanlon 19 2,530 1,313 1,164 .530
Whitey Herzog 19 2,409 1,281 1,125 .532
Tommy Lasorda 21 3,050 1,599 1,439 .526
Wilbert Robinson 19 2,819 1,399 1,398 .500
Dick Williams 22 3,023 1,571 1,451 .520

Mike Scioscia 19  3078  1650  1428  .536

Pretty much better win percentage than the other 3 19 season managers.  And better than 2 of the 3 over 19 season managers.  

So yeah, he should be in.  
 

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11 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

Those in the hall and records.

Eliminate some non comparables.  First Connie Mack, only manager in the hall with a losing record.  

Connie Mack 53 7,755 3,731 3,948 .486

Over 25 years managing

Sparky Anderson (bio) 26 4,030 2,194 1,834 .545
Bobby Cox 29 4,508 2,504 2,001

.556

Bucky Harris 29 4,408 2,157 2,218 .493
Tony La Russa 33 5,097 2,728 2,365

.536

John McGraw 33 4,769 2,763 1,948 .586
Bill McKechnie 25 3,647 1,896 1,723 .524
Casey Stengel 25 3,766 1,905 1,842 .508
Joe Torre 29 4,329 2,326 1,997 .538

 

Over a .550 win percentage.

Walter Alston (bio) 23 3,658 2,040 1,613 .558
Miller Huggins 17 2,570 1,413 1,134 .555
Al Lopez 17 2,425 1,410 1,004 .584
Joe McCarthy 24 3,487 2,125 1,333 .615
Frank Selee 16 2,180 1,284 862 .598
Billy Southworth 13 981 620 346 .642
Earl Weaver 17 2,541 1,480 1,060 .583

 

That leaves:

Leo Durocher 24 3,739 2,008 1,709 .540
Ned Hanlon 19 2,530 1,313 1,164 .530
Whitey Herzog 19 2,409 1,281 1,125 .532
Tommy Lasorda 21 3,050 1,599 1,439 .526
Wilbert Robinson 19 2,819 1,399 1,398 .500
Dick Williams 22 3,023 1,571 1,451 .520

Mike Scioscia 19  3078  1650  1428  .536

Pretty much better win percentage than the other 3 19 season managers.  And better than 2 of the 3 over 19 season managers.  

So yeah, he should be in.  
 

For managers it's all about titles. In my life time I can only think of a few deserving. Tony Larussa. Bruce Boche. Joe Torre. Terry Franconia. Cito Gaston. 

Bobby Cox is a close one for me. 

Hopefully Maddon when he wins his 2nd world series with the Angels. 

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4 hours ago, aznhockeyguy said:

Could definitely go either way.  Kinda of a dying breed of manager staying with one franchise for a very long time in current day sports.  Who knows if he gets another managerial job, but let's say he doesn't.  Only 23 managers are in the HOF and many of them are absolute legends, Mack, Sparky, Durocher, Herzog, La Russa, Lasorda, McGraw, Weaver.

Stats:

19 years all with Angels.

1650-1428 .536 winning percentage

21-27 Playoff record

1 WS title

6 division titles - including 5 in a 6 year span

1 Simpsons appearance

Discuss.

I would vote yes, but barely.  Very interesting discussion.

I WS, .500 winning, and 5 of 6 division titles that's a decade of dominance. Plus he is the managerial face of the Angels's franchise. HOF is warranted. 

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Or course, after saying all that.  Other wins leaders not in the hall.

Fred Clark 19  2826  1602  1181  .576

Terry Francona 19  3076  1667  1409  .542

Dusty Baker  22  3499  1863  1636  .532

Lou Piniella   23  3548  1835  1713  .517

Ralph Houk  20 3157  1619  1531  .514

Buck Showalter 20 3069  1551  1517  .506

Jim Leyland  22 3499  1769  1728  .506

Bruce Bochy 25 4032  2003  2029  .497

Gene Mauch  26  3942  1902  2037  .483

 

 

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Without reading I say it's a toss up.  If he was still managing I would think it's a lock but he maybe done managing and if Angelwin posters vote for HOF he will get rejected. 

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