No longer eligible HOF players

[happybat4]

The active HOF players thread has me thinking about no longer eligible players that should be in the HOF. For me it's 

Lou Whitaker

Bobby Grich

Jim Edmonds 

Kenny Lofton

Tom Gordon (I know I'm crazy) 

Keith Hernandez 

John Olerud

Craig Nettles

Thurmond Munson

I'm sure I'm missing some, but feel free to add and argue. 

 

[Lou]

Is Fred McGriff still eligible?

[Stradling]

I think McGriff should be in the hall.  Also Kenny Lofton is highly under rated.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

30 minutes ago, happybat4 said:

The active HOF players threat has me thinking about no longer eligible players that should be in the HOF. For me it's 

Lou Whitaker

Bobby Grich

Jim Edmonds 

Kenny Lofton

Tom Gordon (I know I'm crazy) 

Keith Hernandez 

John Olerud

Craig Nettles

Thurmond Munson

I'm sure I'm missing some, but feel free to add and argue. 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I think McGriff should be in the hall.  Also Kenny Lofton is highly under rated.  

Funny enough. I was going to mention Lofton in the other thread, as a "if this guy didnt get in".

Theres a ton of guys who should have gotten in, but didnt. Weve talked at length on here about Bobby Grich, for example. Again, I think baseball is just super hard to get in, by design. To keep it "mysterious".

[Brandon]

I liked Kenny Lofton. One of the better CF's in the 90's.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Thurman Munson got a lot of hype because of his unfortunate death - and being captain of the Yankees. I never saw him as an elite player, which should be a prerequisite for the Hall.

[DMVol]

Bobby Grich was a very good player....but not a HOF player....Edmonds probably has a little better case....he is borderline....Lofton and McGriff fit in the category also....

[Stradling]

McGriff ended his career with 493 home runs.  So the difference between HOF and not, was the strike in ‘94.  

[happybat4]

11 hours ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Thurman Munson got a lot of hype because of his unfortunate death - and being captain of the Yankees. I never saw him as an elite player, which should be a prerequisite for the Hall.

Munson was still productive when he passed and catcher is pretty underrepresented. 

[m0nkey]

Add me to the Kenny Lofton fan club.  It's a baseball travesty he fell off after one year.  

Another guy who I think will get robbed is scott rolen, though he's still on the ballot.

[floplag]

Some intriguing names there for sure.  Do i really thing nay are HoF worthy, i dont know.  Like other im on the McGriff/Lofton train im just not sure that trains stop in Cooperstown.  You could make an argument both ways i think and for me thats not a good sign.
Both were tremendous players, im just not completely sure i can say hall worthy.. but definitely on the edge of it.

[Lou]

4 hours ago, floplag said:

Some intriguing names there for sure.  Do i really thing nay are HoF worthy, i dont know.  Like other im on the McGriff/Lofton train im just not sure that trains stop in Cooperstown.  You could make an argument both ways i think and for me thats not a good sign.
Both were tremendous players, im just not completely sure i can say hall worthy.. but definitely on the edge of it.

That's the point of this thread - players that are debatable. Guys that are sure things are already in.

[Brandon]

I liked McGriff when he was with the Padres and was beyond solid with the Braves.. That lineup of him, Sheffield, Gywnn, and Bell was group.

He had some great protection in both lineups.

The Padres acquired him for some guys name Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter then went on to win back to back WS titles.

[AngelsLakersFan]

19 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

 

Funny enough. I was going to mention Lofton in the other thread, as a "if this guy didnt get in".

Theres a ton of guys who should have gotten in, but didnt. Weve talked at length on here about Bobby Grich, for example. Again, I think baseball is just super hard to get in, by design. To keep it "mysterious".

It really depends on position. It's incredibly difficult to get in as a starting pitcher or a second basemen.

I think for pitchers it's because of that "ace" idea... there aren't 30 ace's in the league, there are only a handful at any given time and almost all of them are sure HOFers. Every other pitcher gets compared to them, and voters don't want to put someone who wasn't an 'ace' in the HOF. 

Second base is really interesting. Almost all of the great second basemen of the last few generations have been roughly similar in career value... Guys like Whitaker, Alomar, Randolph, Sandberg, Grich, Kent, Biggio, Utley are all within about 10 war of each other. Grich is actually the highest of that group, he's 8th all time at the position by fWar.

[Angel Oracle]

Grich had an OPS+ of 125 vs Sandberg’s 114.  Sandberg did win 9 GGs vs 4 GGs for Grich. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Tank]

11 hours ago, Stradling said:

McGriff ended his career with 493 home runs.  So the difference between HOF and not, was the strike in ‘94.  

If the crime dog hit 7 more homers, he’d have been inducted years ago.

[Brandon]

His seven home runs should be offset by the fact he did the Tom Emanski baseball drills commercial.

[ELEVEN]

He bunted on Jim Abbott in the 9th inning of a no-hitter.

Fuck Lofton 

[Lou]

6 hours ago, ELEVEN said:

He bunted on Jim Abbott in the 9th inning of a no-hitter.

Fuck Lofton 

It was cool when Aybar did it to Verlander though, right?

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

It was cool when Aybar did it to Verlander though, right?

Abbott was missing fingers, and we were in awe of what he did without them. Verlander has all his fingers, and we're jealous of what he does with them.

[Lou]

10 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Abbott was missing fingers, and we were in awe of what he did without them. Verlander has all his fingers, and we're jealous of what he does with them.

I get that, but he shouldn't be treated any differently than other players because of it 

I'm sure he would agree 

[Lou]

14 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Verlander has all his fingers, and we're jealous of what he does with them.

Yeah, I've seen the pics. 

[Brandon]

20 minutes ago, Lou said:

Yeah, I've seen the pics. 

And props indeed

[ten ocho recon scout]

46 minutes ago, Lou said:

I get that, but he shouldn't be treated any differently than other players because of it 

I'm sure he would agree 

Mainly here I was just trying to get Tank all hot and bothered.

Wasnt it tanks bday pretty recently? We should pitch in and get him a game used verlander ball... theres a chance verlander is dirty, and doesnt wash his hands...

[Duren, Duren]

Don't forget reputation and market factors. They do influence voters. Many who see little of the west coast players in live games.. 

That said, baseball really does make an effort to narrow things down to the elite. With analytics, new ways of measuring careers makes comparisons more objective.