If you can take injuries away from any past player

[Tank]

Non-angels: Fidrych, Prior, Grady Sizemore, and Joe Charbonneau

Angels: Tanana, MacPherson, Morales, and Richards

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Tank said:

 Grady Sizemore

This guy and Baldelli both....

[Stradling]

I thought about Grady as well. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

17 hours ago, Taylor said:

I know he's not retired yet, but if Kendry(s) doesn't break his leg in 2010, a lot would have been different for the Angels in the years that followed.

Thats pretty much who i was thinking... the butterfly effect of that day set us back years and years ..

[ten ocho recon scout]

Im a huge Bo Jackson fan. But I think he was a overrated as a baseball player.

I think he could have had a good career, all star a handful of years. But i dont think he would have been the superstar people remember him as.

Personally i would have liked to have seen a full football career out of him.... in football i think he could have been the best.

[Stradling]

The list of pitchers is a very long list.

Koufax

Prior

Fidrych

Kerry Woods

Johan Santana

Tommy John

Tanana

And dozens more 

[AngelsLakersFan]

17 hours ago, Stradling said:

Tanana for the Angels.  I have him slightly over GA.  Non Angels probably Griffey Jr.  

I can't say GA doesn't count, but it's hard for me to consider a guy who's career was notable for him being so healthy. He managed to play over 100 games every year from '95 through '09 and was able to come to the plate 450 times or more every year until his last. He didn't really drop off the edge production wise until he was 38. Yes he did get that arthritis but I'm not sure how much baseball he had left in him at that point.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I can't say GA doesn't count, but it's hard for me to consider a guy who's career was notable for him being so healthy. He managed to play over 100 games every year from '95 through '09 and was able to come to the plate 450 times or more every year until his last. He didn't really drop off the edge production wise until he was 38. Yes he did get that arthritis but I'm not sure how much baseball he had left in him at that point.

I know.  I just think if he stayed healthy he would have been our first hall of famer, because I’m pretty sure he would have gotten to 3000 hits. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I know.  I just think if he stayed healthy he would have been our first hall of famer, because I’m pretty sure he would have gotten to 3000 hits. 

He came about 500 short. He would've needed about 3 more healthy years. It's hard to say where health and age related decline meets with him. He has a pretty standard and consistent drop off from 32-36 then another step down when the arthritis was diagnosed. Without it he might be able to hold on, but he was no longer a starting caliber player at that point, so tough to know if someone would've given him that at bats. I suppose it's a fair 'what could have been' but its one where it's quite possible that the outcome would've been the same.

[Angel Oracle]

Halos - Frank Tanana, as dominant as any AL pitcher from 1975-1977 (only ages 22-24)

All of MLB - Bo Jackson, if focusing on MLB and without hip issues, could have approached Ken Griffey Jr’s success.

[Angel Oracle]

18 hours ago, Slegnaac said:

Non-Angel Tony Conigliaro 

His career was derailed when he was hit in the face by a pitch thrown by Angels' pitcher Jack Hamilton.  

Angels Bobby Valentine

Broke his leg when his cleats caught in the centerfielf CHAIN LINK FENCE at Anaheim Stadium.  Why the stadium had chain link fencing is a mystery to me.  Never was the same speedy .300 hitter after that.

Tony C. is an intriguing choice.   Dominated in his age 19-21 seasons, beaned at age 22.    One thing to note though is that after hitting 36 HRs in 1970 for the Red Sox, he struggled mightly for the Halos in 1971 before retiring in July  (iirc the day after the 20 inning loss where he went something like 0-8).   That season happened despite no new injuries.

[Angelsjunky]

I won't list a top choice, but an obscure one: Kal Daniels. Dude was a beast in 1987, hitting .334/.429/.617 and a 169 wRC+ in 430 PA, behind only Jack Clark and Wade Boggs. I think a recurrent knee injury ruined his career.

From the same era (and team): Eric Davis. He had a long career but was always struggling with injuries. He was a power-speed beast: Hit 27 HR and 80 SB in 1986, then had his best year in 1987: .293/.399/.593, 37 HR, 50 SB, 7.1 WAR in only 129 games. 

 

[Stradling]

Eric Davis was a good one.  

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Eric Davis was a good one.  

Agreed, the lacerated kidney he suffered in the 90 world series had lingering effects for the rest of his career.   Dude was one of the most exciting players in baseball through his age 27 season.

[Duren, Duren]

Frank Tanana for the Angels. Man, with Ryan and Tanana the Angels had potentially one of the best all time pitching duos. We only saw a small sampling of what could have been.

Non Angels, there are many, as others here have noted. But I think of Mickey Mantle.

He had a long, HOF career, but it could have been so much more in terms of stats. He was amazingly fast as well as powerful, but in  the1951 World Series during his first season he suffered a devastating knee injury. The aged Joe DiMaggio called him off on fly ball to right center and Mantle had to stop abruptly and caught his foot in a drain pipe in the Polo Grounds. Despite the fact Casey Stengel had ordered him to cover the space DiMaggio couldn't reach anymore. 

Mantle's speed was never the same. He also had dozens of other major injuries and was often playing with pain.  Yes, he had a very long career, but it could have been significantly more impressive. And Mantle's injuries and family history of early death affected his psyche and led to a lifestyle that also restricted his production.

If you watch the movie '61' you get a great insight into the demons he and Maris faced during a historic season. 

And though not injury related, I think of Ted Williams. Also with a very long career, but he lost the equivalent of four prime seasons with military service in two wars. His numbers also would have even more amazing. 

There is a very good book out there about the 1941 season. Williams hit over .400 (last player to do it) and DiMaggio had his 56 game hitting streak. The argument has been made that if each played for the other team both would have been more amazing. Williams batting left in Yankee Stadium, DiMaggio batting right in Fenway.

[NJHalo]

Matt Harvey was a beast before his TJ surgery, and collection of other complications afterwards 

[Claude]

I remember when Jermaine Dye hit a ball off his shin and fractured his tibia. 
 

Oh and don’t forget when catcher Chris Snyder fractured his testicle. 

[Angelsjunky]

Has anyone mentioned Garret Richards? He was looking like a bonafide ace in 2014 but never quite matched that form.

McPherson and Kotchman also come to mind. Dallas essentially lost his career, and Casey wasn't the same after mono.

Historically it has to be Tanana, but he was before my time so I didn't directly experience the impact.

[m0nkey]

A couple said Mark Prior, and from my baseball fandom times he'd be my #1 guy (from a pure baseball fan POV).  Kerry Wood was able to at least salvage a career as a reliever.

 

Griffey takes the cake for a position player.

[ten ocho recon scout]

7 hours ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

He came about 500 short. He would've needed about 3 more healthy years. It's hard to say where health and age related decline meets with him. He has a pretty standard and consistent drop off from 32-36 then another step down when the arthritis was diagnosed. Without it he might be able to hold on, but he was no longer a starting caliber player at that point, so tough to know if someone would've given him that at bats. I suppose it's a fair 'what could have been' but its one where it's quite possible that the outcome would've been the same.

Off the top of my head, GA started having arthritis in 2004, at least thats when he started meds...  so roughly 6 years or so of dealing w it. I think he would have gotten there.

[ten ocho recon scout]

How about dwight gooden? Yeah, the booger sugar was his demon, but he also had arm issues. Threw a TON of pitches early in his career.

His early career was pretty insane.

[ten ocho recon scout]

David Wright was a beast until he screwed up his back. Justin Morneu looked like a badass, too.

[AngelsLakersFan]

12 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Off the top of my head, GA started having arthritis in 2004, at least thats when he started meds...  so roughly 6 years or so of dealing w it. I think he would have gotten there.

Hard for me to remember now though that would make sense (2004 team was as ravaged with injuries as the 2003 team) and his power really disappeared that year. 

Garret was always an enigma. His first several years in the league he showed very limited power, much in the way he did in his later career. Yet he always hit for average. Even in 2004 he hit .301. Interestingly, while 2004 was the start of his decline he had probably his fourth best year with the bat in 2007, although in a lesser amount of games.

I know we see GA differently, but I've always saw him as a mostly slightly above average player who had two great years in his prime. Looking at his batting stats there isn't a lot of variation through out his career, but loading up his FG page and looking at his defense, base running and war numbers he really did take a dive in 2004. He put up just 1.1 war after 2003 (-2.4 after leaving the Angels). He had amassed 15.1 in the 5 seasons prior. I know we've been talking about the arthritis affecting his 3000 hit potential, which it looks like it certainly did, it actually is his entire game that was affected. His hit total, strangely, seems like the one thing he managed to hang on to (like Pujols and his homeruns).

So yeah, I retract my earlier statements. With a more traditional decline he probably puts up another 15 war in his career.

[Inside Pitch]

10 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Im a huge Bo Jackson fan. But I think he was a overrated as a baseball player.

I think he could have had a good career, all star a handful of years. But i dont think he would have been the superstar people remember him as

I think you're forgetting how raw he was.  Everyone remembers he only played baseball part time, but people forget he only played 53 minor league games before making his MLB debut, and this was after missing his sophomore season in college and then being declared ineligible and only playing 20 or so games his senior year after the TB Buccaneers tried to sabotage his playing baseball. 

For me it was less about who he actually was .vs what he would have been had he gone through the normal development process.  Also, most people have either forgotten or didn't know that he was drafted by the Angels in 1985, the year before the Royals.  Things could have been fed different.

[gotbeer]

On 5/2/2020 at 6:08 PM, Sully151 said:

My first thought for Non-Angel was Ken Griffey Jr. It would have been crazy to see what he could have done with 5 more good years.

That was my thought as well.  He was so injured, and still put up the numbers.  

As for Angels.  I'm going to say it.  Pujols.  Instead we got stuck with a huge contract.