Poor Barry Bonds

[nate]

I really hope he never makes it into the HOF, dude is such a crybaby, I bet if he had just admitted to it he probably would have made it in.

[ten ocho recon scout]

@Angelsjunky, ill add another point.

Where you say Bonds was the player of the 90s. I think like the GA vs Salmon thread, thats true, but a lot of it due to how times changed and how we view guys today vs pre SABR.

I think an argument could be made that Griffey was the player of the 90s. Both in success (yes, Bonds was better), but more so popularity, and how we saw things back then.

Bonds was Mr Consistent. 30/30 guy year in, year out. But then you had guys like Sosa and McGwire. Again, Bonds was obviously better... but st the time, nobody saw it that way.

Throw in jeter, arod, manny ramirez, chipper etc on the back end of the decade, with guys like gwynn, clemens, ripken etc as the veterans that were still really good, and I think Bonds gets lost in it all.

Going back to the race angle, look at Torii. He was always outspoken, even spoke on race (and got backlash). Hes in broadcasting. People love him. But, again, he was always good to people

[Make Angels Great Again]

1 hour ago, nate said:

I really hope he never makes it into the HOF, dude is such a crybaby, I bet if he had just admitted to it he probably would have made it in.

 

He kind of half admitted it years ago. He said through his lawyer that he used PEDs, but it was unknowingly, or he thought it was some kind of arthritis cream or some BS.

[Adam]

16 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I've always liked Barry Bonds, mainly because he was one hell of a player - the best player of the 90s, and that was before he started taking steroids. But I found his "fuck you, media" attitude kind of fun. I'm not saying he was a good guy, but he was larger than life.

I generally don't like to reduce things to racism unless it is blatant, and there are other factors, but in his case I think it is relevant. Or rather, it is a combination of his personalilty, never cozying up to the media, and because he's a "black man with an attitude." We saw similar treatment of Albert Belle. White assholes are often interpreted as being "characters" or "scrappy," but black assholes are seen more negatively, like they're not playing their proper role and appreciative for being able to play major league baseball.

 

Dare I?

 

THIS!

[Taylor]

It's possible that racism plays/played a role in people's dislike of Bonds. It might account for about 10%, while his a-hole tendencies account for 90%.

It's undeniable that people in privilege (read: white people and males) are typically able to get away with more than minority and underprivileged groups. For example, if a prominent male has a new girlfriend every two months, he's considered a player. If a prominent woman has a new boyfriend every two months, she's considered a slut. If Bryce Harper acts like a douche, he's just "douchey" or has a "fiery" personality. If Justin Upton misses a play in LF, he's a lazy twat who doesn't care and has a bad attitude.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Taylor

[tdawg87]

This thread has some potential.

[Slegnaac]

Barry Bonds is the MLB version of Lance Armstrong, without the championships. 

 

I hope Dick Allen gets into the HOF before Bonds.

[PattyD22]

20 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I've always liked Barry Bonds, mainly because he was one hell of a player - the best player of the 90s, and that was before he started taking steroids. But I found his "fuck you, media" attitude kind of fun. I'm not saying he was a good guy, but he was larger than life.

I generally don't like to reduce things to racism unless it is blatant, and there are other factors, but in his case I think it is relevant. Or rather, it is a combination of his personalilty, never cozying up to the media, and because he's a "black man with an attitude." We saw similar treatment of Albert Belle. White assholes are often interpreted as being "characters" or "scrappy," but black assholes are seen more negatively, like they're not playing their proper role and appreciative for being able to play major league baseball.

 

I respect your stance on this AJ.  I just don’t agree with it.  Like Ten Ocho and several other have stated, Barry Bonds isn’t disliked because he’s black, he’s disliked because he’s an asshole.  A pretentious asshole.

There are many white ball players who are just as big of dicks as he was in his playing days.  Roger Clemons, Kevin Brown, and Jeff Kent immediately come to mind off the top of my head.  I can’t stand any of those guys and it has nothing to do with race, it has to do with how they carried themselves on and off the field.

Bonds is just more magnified because:

A) He was a great player and was chasing records and

B) He didn’t give a shit about anyone but himself.  Thats a giant turn off to baseball fans in a traditional game.

Couple the fact that to this day he has denied using any PED’s despite numerous evidence to the contrary and you have what he has.  This has nothing to do with race, it has to do with the bed he made for himself.  Period

Edited March 10, 2020 by PattyD22

[tdawg87]

19 minutes ago, Slegnaac said:

Barry Bonds is the MLB version of Lance Armstrong, without the championships. 

Bonds leads the MLB in walks all-time. I think it's safe to say he has more than 1 ball.

[Tank]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Bonds leads the MLB in walks all-time. I think it's safe to say he has more than 1 ball.

[Dtwncbad]

20 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I've always liked Barry Bonds, mainly because he was one hell of a player - the best player of the 90s, and that was before he started taking steroids. But I found his "fuck you, media" attitude kind of fun. I'm not saying he was a good guy, but he was larger than life.

I generally don't like to reduce things to racism unless it is blatant, and there are other factors, but in his case I think it is relevant. Or rather, it is a combination of his personalilty, never cozying up to the media, and because he's a "black man with an attitude." We saw similar treatment of Albert Belle. White assholes are often interpreted as being "characters" or "scrappy," but black assholes are seen more negatively, like they're not playing their proper role and appreciative for being able to play major league baseball.

 

Thanks for making me see things differently.  Given your wisdom here, I can now conclude that Barry Bonds treated my friend that worked for the Giants terribly not because Barry Bonds is a dick, but because Barry Bonds is a racist.

[meat]

18 hours ago, Kevinb said:

I am not usually the person who blames things on race. But I do find it interesting about the Bonds situation, does he want to get back into baseball but baseball doesn't want him? Or does he just like pretending he wants to be back in baseball. As a pure baseball mind I can't imagine a team not at least sort of interested in him as a hitting coach, or some kind of special assistant somewhere in an organization. 

But to play devils advocate because well I do enjoy that from time to time. In the race thing why do you think Bonds is blackballed or Albert Belle but A Rod and Papi are around a lot? Or were embraced A Rod more now and Papi when he played? 

A-Fraud and Mommy are both cheating phonies.  Our society loves a good phony.

[Lou]

26 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Thanks for making me see things differently.  Given your wisdom here, I can now conclude that Barry Bonds treated my friend that worked for the Giants terribly not because Barry Bonds is a dick, but because Barry Bonds is a racist.

When did he call Bonds a racist?

[kevinb]

4 minutes ago, meat said:

A-Fraud and Mommy are both cheating phonies.  Our society loves a good phony.

Mommy? 

[meat]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

Mommy? 

Mami?  IDFK

[kevinb]

Just now, meat said:

Mami?  IDFK

Who are you talking about? Mommy? Mami? Are you having a stroke? Blink twice for yes...

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

When did he call Bonds a racist?

He didn’t.  He suspected race was involved in how Bonds was treated.   So I applied the same logic in how my friend was treated by Bonds.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Dtwncbad

[Angelsjunky]

@ten ocho recon scout, I have no doubt that Bonds' personality is largely responsible for his ostracism from major league baseball, especially his lack of contrition. But do I think race is a factor? Probably. 

As for Bonds and Griffey, yes, most people thought that Griffey was the player of the 90s during the 90s. Except for stat nerds. They've been around since Granddaddy Statnerd Bill James started writing in the 80s. In the 90s you had the "Disciples of James," like Rob Neyer etc. At that point, people started paying more attention to OBP and SLG.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Bonds leads the MLB in walks all-time. I think it's safe to say he has more than 1 ball.

Yeah, but with all those cycles of sustanol, do his two equal one real one?

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Yeah, but with all those cycles of sustanol, do his two equal one real one?

I've heard that shit makes your junk shrink. It's possible he's got two malted milk balls goin on rather than two Cadbury creme eggs.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I think the picture being painted here is off. Is there racists in baseball? Sure. Its a large organization. But do i think all of MLB not wanting anything to do with him is racist? No way. 

30 teams and all networks not wanting him around "because hes black" is way too simplistic. 

Magic Johnson talked in length about kareem in "when the game was ours". He talked about how after they retired, kareem came to him, and asked him for help. kareem wanted what magic had. Magic told him its impossible. His standoff personality, and all the times he went out of his way to be an asshole to people killed his marketability. 

This is the same with bonds.

As for saying blacks are considered assholes, whereas white guys are considered "scrappy" when they are assholes. Yeah, thats fair....

.... but do we call a guy like josh beckett scrappy? What about papelbum? Clemons?

No, theyre considered assholes, too. And nobody seems to be lining up to ask them to join their broadcast teams either.

Meanwhile, in october, off the top of my head its arod, ortiz, pedro and frank Thomas doing all the commentary. Not scrappy darin erstad types.

Pete rose was scrappy as hell...

And to clarify AJ, I agree that bonds was a beast. Asshole, steroids, etc, I dont care. He was the machine. In fact, I cut him slack on juicing, because the entire league was. And they still werent him. And i dont care that he was an asshole, because I never met the guy once, and ive never heard that he stole from people, beat them, etc. That being said, I think he just created his own exclusion from the game. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

22 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I've heard that shit makes your junk shrink. It's possible he's got two malted milk balls goin on rather than two Cadbury creme eggs.

I always heard steroids shrink your balls. That more than anything made me want to try them. Forget muscles. 

......... smaller balls makes everything else look bigger

 

[Angelsjunky]

You make good arguments, scout - and the gap between our views is probably smaller than you think. But I am not saying that he's excluded because he's black. I'm saying that his blackness makes his attitude less palatable to the old boys club. I could be wrong, but this sort of shit has been going on for a very long time.

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

8 hours ago, Taylor said:

For example, if a prominent male has a new girlfriend every two months, he's considered a player. If a prominent woman has a new boyfriend every two months she’s considered a slut

That’s because if a man has a new girlfriend every two months he’s doing it right. If a girl has a new boyfriend every two months she has mental illness.

[Taylor]

8 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

That’s because if a man has a new girlfriend every two months he’s doing it right. If a girl has a new boyfriend every two months she has mental illness.

Cool story bro.