Astros vs other teams

[Torridd]

I find myself wondering if other teams would have reacted the same way as the Astros given the opportunity. Do you think this was purely a personality thing for these individuals or, given the same circumstances, would most other players take advantage of such an opportunity?  I wonder if all the Astros personnel agreed with what happened or just some went along so they wouldn't be ostracized.

[Taylor]

Everyone* in the Astros organization from 2015 on is a soulless, vile human being.

 

 

 

*except Max Stassi

[Blarg]

I'm pretty sure the culture of the Astros was hammered into place by the ownership and management making this level of moral turpitude acceptable and as such I doubt you would see the Angels or Trout put up with any of this nonsense. Some guys are just wired to play using a Sportsmanship code that doesn't require an MLB rulebook and some sub paragraph to tell exactly what cheating is. That and Scioscia would have put whoever was banging on the tashcan in the trashcan then had him traded to the Guatalmalen league for some Oroz con Pollo. 

[floplag]

Its a fair question.
We know from comments that some chose not to take part.  Strangely many of them are no longer with the Astros.  I kinda wonder if thats part of the reason guys dont seem to re-up there, such as Cole.
We also know others did, whole heatedly.
The reality here is that everyone tries to steal signs, its built into the game.  They simply took it to a very stupid obvious level that was apparently no secret to anyone.   I cant think of any other word but stupid.  How dumb did they think everyone else was to not hear this giant bang.  Guys obviously put it together while on the mound.
Id like to think more players would not take part, than would, but a the end of the day were talking about millions of dollars.. steroids were wide spread, im sure things similar to this are as well... most just weren't so damned idiotic about it.

[Angel Oracle]

14 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I'm pretty sure the culture of the Astros was hammered into place by the ownership and management making this level of moral turpitude acceptable and as such I doubt you would see the Angels or Trout put up with any of this nonsense. Some guys are just wired to play using a Sportsmanship code that doesn't require an MLB rulebook and some sub paragraph to tell exactly what cheating is. That and Scioscia would have put whoever was banging on the tashcan in the trashcan then had him traded to the Guatalmalen league for some Oroz con Pollo. 

Arte and Mike both are very principled.   The anti-Crane and anti-Luhnow

Edited February 19, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[yk9001]

2 hours ago, Torridd said:

I find myself wondering if other teams would have reacted the same way as the Astros given the opportunity. Do you think this was purely a personality thing for these individuals or, given the same circumstances, would most other players take advantage of such an opportunity?  I wonder if all the Astros personnel agreed with what happened or just some went along so they wouldn't be ostracized.

Check out the background of Luhnow, if you already haven't.  He worked at Kinsey and Company,  a consulting company which has an absolutely terrible reputation for being, well, human.

Who was the team that blocked a reporter from the Detroit Free Press, because Verlander got his feelings hurt?

Who was the team who employed that despicable sub-human, Taubman?

Who was the team who, when Taubman was outed for his egregious locker room behavior toward the woman/women, tried to smear said reporter with outright lies in a press release defending Taubman?

 

This was all just in 2019!!

[tdawg87]

It's possible, but as others have already pointed out the culture was in place from the top on down. 

I'm sure there are a few owners who'd pull the same shit if they could, but Luhnow is a special kind of c*nt.

[AngelsLakersFan]

I've been calling Houston a loser franchise and rooting against them for years. This is just another example in a long line of trashy corporate culture.

[Mark PT]

2 hours ago, Torridd said:

I find myself wondering if other teams would have reacted the same way as the Astros given the opportunity. Do you think this was purely a personality thing for these individuals or, given the same circumstances, would most other players take advantage of such an opportunity?  I wonder if all the Astros personnel agreed with what happened or just some went along so they wouldn't be ostracized.

I would like to think I would not have participated and believe I would not but my question would be, would I have the courage to report it?

[Hubs]

This is also one reason I could see the Angels making a significant improvement in 2020. The Astros cheated the past three years. They have evidence for 2017 and 2018, but lack evidence for 2019, yet...if it's working that well, why do you stop it? It might not be as effective since other teams are catching on, but they are still trying to cheat.

The Astros vs. the Angels at Minute Maid in 2019 = .313 BA / .394 OBP / .530 SLG / .984 OPS. Against the Astros overall (I still maintain they were also cheating on the road): .298 BA / .387 OBP / .566 / .953 OPS.

Those 19 games were painful for the Angels pitching staff.

[eligrba]

Based on the complaints of some AW posters, some would welcome and ignore the transgressions of Luhnow and Crane for their success.

For all of their faults, Moreno and Eppler have been honorable in their professional realms.

[kevinb]

On 2/19/2020 at 7:50 AM, Torridd said:

I find myself wondering if other teams would have reacted the same way as the Astros given the opportunity. Do you think this was purely a personality thing for these individuals or, given the same circumstances, would most other players take advantage of such an opportunity?  I wonder if all the Astros personnel agreed with what happened or just some went along so they wouldn't be ostracized.

These players weren't born by Astro parents, or have some random DNA. This isn't unique to Astros. There was some 70 plus percent of MLB players using steroids. Cheating/stealing happens in every industry. But if we are talking about just sports. Look how times the Patriots have been caught with stuff? Just because teams and players aren't being caught all the time doesn't mean they aren't bending or breaking the rules. To think this just comes down to one organization is silly. Whether its sign stealing or something else there will always be something new that people will exploit or some new drug people will take to squeeze every last cent/win/home run from the system.

[kevinb]

On 2/19/2020 at 9:15 AM, Blarg said:

I'm pretty sure the culture of the Astros was hammered into place by the ownership and management making this level of moral turpitude acceptable and as such I doubt you would see the Angels or Trout put up with any of this nonsense. Some guys are just wired to play using a Sportsmanship code that doesn't require an MLB rulebook and some sub paragraph to tell exactly what cheating is. That and Scioscia would have put whoever was banging on the tashcan in the trashcan then had him traded to the Guatalmalen league for some Oroz con Pollo. 

Um so the Astros found people who were morally inept? Doubt you would see the Angels do anything morally poor? Um watch what you say... The Angels have had their own sort of um .....

[Hubs]

I saw a tweet a while back from the Angels video replay coordinator, Nick Francona,

@NickFrancona

When MLB introduced expanded replay in 2014, being the replay monitor during games became part of my job with the @Angels. From the outset, Mike Scioscia made it clear there would be zero tolerance for any nonsense and it was on me to ensure it didn’t happen. Pretty simple.

Replying to

@NickFrancona

Like any manager, Scioscia has his shortcomings. But he cared more about the integrity of the game than taking shortcuts. In fact, he suspected other teams were abusing the system and never used that as an excuse for his team to do so.

[ukyah]

On 2/19/2020 at 9:05 AM, Taylor said:

Everyone* in the Astros organization from 2015 on is a soulless, vile human being.

 

 

 

*except Max Stassi

 

max stassi and the other september call ups get a pass. stassi had like 24 plate appearances and sucked balls, what's he supposed to do? same goes with any of the other young guys. they're not the ones who can voice their concern. they show up and try to stick in the big leagues.

also, stassi was so bad in his limited plate appearances that he definitely wasn't cheating. if he was, then good lord he's bad.

[ukyah]

2 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Um so the Astros found people who were morally inept? Doubt you would see the Angels do anything morally poor? Um watch what you say... The Angels have had their own sort of um .....

obviously, you're referring to the skaggs and what's his face situation. two drug addicted co-workers/friends supplying each other with narcotics is not systemic organized drug dealing. so far, that's been the extent of the "conspiracy". from what i've seen so far, i don't think this is anymore than representation off a nationwide opiod problem.

[yk9001]

2 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Um so the Astros found people who were morally inept? Doubt you would see the Angels do anything morally poor? Um watch what you say... The Angels have had their own sort of um .....

Exactly correct. Morally inept.

Did you read about Taubman's behavior in the locker room in the locker room toward the group of womens reporters?  Okay, maybe he was having a bad day, caught him on a bad moment, give him the benefit of the doubt.  People who AREN'T  morally bankrupt give an apology, even grudgingly, saying "I am sorry, my emotions got the best of me, I apologize, yada yada yada".

What did these morally bankrupt, dishonest assholes do?  They doubled down, and tried to smear the career of the woman.  They refuted it happened, and called the allegation "misleading and irresponsible".

Only when refuted by everyone else there did they backtrack.

That is EXACTLY what morally inept people do.

[yk9001]

45 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I saw a tweet a while back from the Angels video replay coordinator, Nick Francona,

@NickFrancona

When MLB introduced expanded replay in 2014, being the replay monitor during games became part of my job with the @Angels. From the outset, Mike Scioscia made it clear there would be zero tolerance for any nonsense and it was on me to ensure it didn’t happen. Pretty simple.

Replying to

@NickFrancona

Like any manager, Scioscia has his shortcomings. But he cared more about the integrity of the game than taking shortcuts. In fact, he suspected other teams were abusing the system and never used that as an excuse for his team to do so.

There has been so much ball washing of Scioscia over the years here that I definitely did my share of eyerolls.

But the dude was here 20 years and never had a misstep, at least we know of.

The Astros step on rakes on a weekly basis.

[yk9001]

2 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Um so the Astros found people who were morally inept? 

What kind of behavior do you call it when an owner feels responsible accept the WS trophy from the commissioner...

 

But when the bad shit hits the fan, flat out says, "I don't think I should be held accountable".

What kind of behavior do you call that?  I'll hang up and listen.

[kevinb]

4 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Exactly correct. Morally inept.

Did you read about Taubman's behavior in the locker room in the locker room toward the group of womens reporters?  Okay, maybe he was having a bad day, caught him on a bad moment, give him the benefit of the doubt.  People who AREN'T  morally bankrupt give an apology, even grudgingly, saying "I am sorry, my emotions got the best of me, I apologize, yada yada yada".

What did these morally bankrupt, dishonest assholes do?  They doubled down, and tried to smear the career of the woman.  They refuted it happened, and called the allegation "misleading and irresponsible".

Only when refuted by everyone else there did they backtrack.

That is EXACTLY what morally inept people do.

 

8 minutes ago, ukyah said:

obviously, you're referring to the skaggs and what's his face situation. two drug addicted co-workers/friends supplying each other with narcotics is not systemic organized drug dealing. so far, that's been the extent of the "conspiracy". from what i've seen so far, i don't think this is anymore than representation off a nationwide opiod problem.

Again I don't think this is just an Astros thing. Patriots owner was seen with random hookers in Miami. Our president has seen his fair share of controversy and countless others. McDonalds had a giant scandal as well. This isn't a Astros or a sports thing it's just a thing. To boil it down to just something corrupt in one organization is silly and naive. People of all walks of life whether it be Astro personnel or other are doing shady things. Blaming one organization seems weird, I have plenty of friends who work in the restaurant and bar industry and the drug stuff wasn't just Skaggs it was a lot more than that on the roster over the years, but I wouldn't blame it on the Angels. It is a problem throughout society....end of rant. 

[yk9001]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

 

Again I don't think this is just an Astros thing. Patriots owner was seen with random hookers in Miami. Our president has seen his fair share of controversy and countless others. McDonalds had a giant scandal as well. This isn't a Astros or a sports thing it's just a thing. To boil it down to just something corrupt in one organization is silly and naive. People of all walks of life whether it be Astro personnel or other are doing shady things. Blaming one organization seems weird, I have plenty of friends who work in the restaurant and bar industry and the drug stuff wasn't just Skaggs it was a lot more than that on the roster over the years, but I wouldn't blame it on the Angels. It is a problem throughout society....end of rant. 

Everybody's doing it, yada yada yada.

What on earth is wrong with you?

I've met a lot of guys on this board and I guaran-fucking-tee you that most of the guys on this board aren't shitheads like Taubman, Luhnow and Crane.  Even the magas.

[kevinb]

4 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Everybody's doing it, yada yada yada.

What on earth is wrong with you?

I've met a lot of guys on this board and I guaran-fucking-tee you that most of the guys on this board aren't shitheads like Taubman, Luhnow and Crane.  Even the magas.

Shit heads about people you’ve never met or interacted with? And somethings wrong with me? I merely stated facts about things going on in the world and you’re asking me what’s wrong with me? I get where you’re coming from as a fan of another organization and you have to conclude all other organizations are villains. I just don’t have the same thought process. Things happen. We already know that “this” happened in two organizations that we know of. So it’s not just an Astros thing. So my argument is already correct. 

[kevinb]

24 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

Exactly correct. Morally inept.

Did you read about Taubman's behavior in the locker room in the locker room toward the group of womens reporters?  Okay, maybe he was having a bad day, caught him on a bad moment, give him the benefit of the doubt.  People who AREN'T  morally bankrupt give an apology, even grudgingly, saying "I am sorry, my emotions got the best of me, I apologize, yada yada yada".

What did these morally bankrupt, dishonest assholes do?  They doubled down, and tried to smear the career of the woman.  They refuted it happened, and called the allegation "misleading and irresponsible".

Only when refuted by everyone else there did they backtrack.

That is EXACTLY what morally inept people do.

How do you feel using some woman’s butt as a profile picture. Do you think that’s the morally right thing to do? Do you think about this person as a human being or just a piece of ass? Did you ask her if it was ok to use her body as something for your amusement without her consent?

[TheOGGabyC]

It’s kind of crazy, because I could never see the rhetoric that people like Correa are giving, telling Bellinger and others to F off, come from Mike Trout or Albert Pujols. 

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

How do you feel using some woman’s butt as a profile picture

I see nothing wrong with it.