Arte: "We need to win" for Eppler to get a new deal

[Docwaukee]

Just now, Rally Gorilla said:

Do you think Cahill, Harvey, Lucroy and Allen were Epplers firsth choices?   He was picking from the bargain bin because of Arte's self-imposed penny-pinching on lower PR moves.

now you're just being silly.   That was plenty of money to improve the team for 2019 and he failed miserably.  Fortunately, he didn't compound the issue by making multi-year commitments to guys like Happ, Eovaldi etc.  

The Halos payroll is enough to expect more than 72 wins.  I understand that other stuff happened that compounded last year's performance.  

And if Arte fires Billy because we were a #3 starter short of being a 'winner' then I will agree but I don't think that's what he's talking about when he says that the team needs to win.  

He wants to see money well spent.  He wants to be rewarded in waiting for the kids.  He doesn't want to see 50 million dollars flushed down the toilet on a yearly.  

It's all about seeing some semblance of progress.  If Teheran, Bundy and Castro fail miserably and end up being released at some point while the team ends up with 81 wins, will you consider Eppler's choices a success?  

At some point, wins matter.  Eppler has to show that he can add those two or three 1 or 2 yr players that complete the team no matter his resources.  Every playoff team has a Howie Kenrick, Asdrubal Cabrera, Anibal Sanchez, Michael Brantley, David Freese, Mike Tauchman, Gio Urshela, Steve Pearce, Steven Wright etc.  

Being asked to add 3-4 everyday guys in order to complete a team every year is unrealistic but you can't spend 50m and get nothing.  You just can't.  

[Docwaukee]

9 minutes ago, Rally Gorilla said:

I disagree.  Pujols, Wilson, Hamilton....and a tendency to force his GM's to dumpster dive for non-splashy team needs.

he had 50 million dollars to spend last year.  what are the odds that you or I could get part of that right?  

[ettin]

22 minutes ago, Rally Gorilla said:

Arte has consistently shown he will spend big on big PR splash moves.....then he forces his GM's to dumpster dive for everyone else.     I love the Rendon signing....I think it was a good move and worth the risk.    I can't wait to see him play.     But then Arte nixed the Stripling/Pederson deal that could have really helped Rendon's contributions translate into wins....and made us one of the WC favorites.     

Can you please provide a link from a recognized baseball writer/source that describes the exact trade and what players were being exchanged? I'd like to know how the deal actually helped us, thanks.

[Claude]

9 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Hopefully they are in contention at the break and someone has pitching available.

and if they’re not in contention they will still most likely need SP.

[Tank]

3 minutes ago, Rally Gorilla said:

If you want to put blind faith in Arte, who am I to try and stop you?   We all have our opinions.    But, IMHO, Arte and his "behind the scenes" driven moves have put us in a 10 year playoff win drought....and increased his personal net worth massively.    

He’s had his share of misses, but an awful lot of successes, too. Blind faith? Not really.  Maybe it has something to do with getting older and Not putting a ridiculous amount of energy into deals that are or aren’t made.

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, RendZone said:

and if they’re not in contention they will still most likely need SP.

if they're not, it's because one of a couple things happened.  

1.  major injuries to key guys.  

2. Bundy and Teheran are a mess

3. The kids didn't progress.  

Eppler would have to be held accountable for some of that.  no?  

[Rally Gorilla]

Just now, ettin said:

Can you please provide a link from a recognized baseball writer/source that describes the exact trade and what players were being exchanged? I'd like to know how the deal actually helped us, thanks.

Google is your friend.  

[Rally Gorilla]

5 minutes ago, Tank said:

He’s had his share of misses, but an awful lot of successes, too. Blind faith? Not really.  Maybe it has something to do with getting older and Not putting a ridiculous amount of energy into deals that are or aren’t made.

I respect your choice.   For me, this is a baseball discussion site and a place where opinions can be aired.   And I don't have a problem with people who disagree or take a different approach.   

I also don't' plan on putting a "ridiculous amount of energy" into worrying about what Arte does.  But, as someone who is excited about the team getting stronger and the upcoming season, I still can't believe that Arte nixed that deal  (I had been giving the benefit of the doubt that the Dodgers nixed it because they no longer needed to reduce salary)...and then Arte follows that up with giving Eppler a "win now" mandate before considering a contract renewal.    

[Claude]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

if they're not, it's because one of a couple things happened.  

1.  major injuries to key guys.  

2. Bundy and Teheran are a mess

3. The kids didn't progress.  

Eppler would have to be held accountable for some of that.  no?  

In all fairness to Eppler, I think Arte’s reluctance to pull the trigger after Hamilton’s deal did kinda delay more progressive off-seasons. Eppler inherited a very empty cupboard. Arte didn’t give him a blank check right away. The Upton trade didn’t take place until late in the last season of Hamilton. Eppler had to temporarily work with table scraps and still managed to extend Trout (like you predicted) and somehow lured Ohtani to Anaheim. That couldn’t have been easy. In 2020 we could’ve been looking at NYY Ohtani and Trout entering his walk year. Even dealing with that he’s managed to make the farm (ranked last at one point) very respectable again. 

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Rally Gorilla said:

I respect your choice.   For me, this is a baseball discussion site and a place where opinions can be aired.   And I don't have a problem with people who disagree or take a different approach.   

I also don't' plan on putting a "ridiculous amount of energy" into worrying about what Arte does.  But, as someone who is excited about the team getting stronger and the upcoming season, I still can't believe that Arte nixed that deal  (I had been giving the benefit of the doubt that the Dodgers nixed it because they no longer needed to reduce salary)...and then Arte follows that up with giving Eppler a "win now" mandate before considering a contract renewal.    

you being mad about Arte nixing a single deal and not understanding his comments about how winning is important for Eppler to keep his job need to be separated.  

I get why you're upset about the former.  I'm not happy either.  

but it doesn't change the importance of the latter and doesn't mean Arte is responsible for every last unsuccessful thing while Eppler gets credit for everything good that's happened.  

[Rally Gorilla]

10 minutes ago, RBM said:

I would recommend you put some energy into understanding what he actually said today and what his message conveyed to the team. 

I did.   He was asked about what it would take for Eppler's contract to be renewed.   He said "winning".....and this was after he nixed a deal that would have increased our chances of doing that.    As far as the "fire myself" comment.....he should.   I love the Angels and I don't need to see another 10 years of futility.     Maybe he should sell the team and take his huge earnings.    Or, I'd be absolutely fine if he would just let the baseball people make the baseball decisions.    He can stick to buying stadiums, negotiating ever richer TV deals, developing lots, etc....

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, RendZone said:

In all fairness to Eppler, I think Arte’s reluctance to pull the trigger after Hamilton’s deal did kinda delay more progressive off-seasons. Eppler inherited a very empty cupboard. Arte didn’t give him a blank check right away. The Upton trade didn’t take place until late in the last season of Hamilton. Eppler had to temporarily work with table scraps and still managed to extend Trout (like you predicted) and somehow lured Ohtani to Anaheim. That couldn’t have been easy. In 2020 we could’ve been looking at NYY Ohtani and Trout entering his walk year. Even dealing with that he’s managed to make the farm (ranked last at one point) very respectable again. 

and that's why I give him a pass for most of it and why I'd like to see him get extended for the most part.  Yet I can see why Arte might want to wait and see if some guys do well this year that the team is resting their hopes on to make them better.  If Teheran and Bundy fail miserably this year then are you confident that Billy will make the right choices in the future?  

[Rally Gorilla]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

you being mad about Arte nixing a single deal and not understanding his comments about how winning is important for Eppler to keep his job need to be separated.  

I get why you're upset about the former.  I'm not happy either.  

but it doesn't change the importance of the latter and doesn't mean Arte is responsible for every last unsuccessful thing while Eppler gets credit for everything good that's happened.  

I think just saying I'm mad doesn't capture the full picture.   I'm mad as hell, but this also adds to my concern that Arte's ego is only growing and he hasn't learned to let the baseball people run things even after his interference has lead to a 10 year playoff win drought.   I'm not sure he's ever going to learn.   If he did, I'd be thrilled.

[Rally Gorilla]

11 minutes ago, RendZone said:

In all fairness to Eppler, I think Arte’s reluctance to pull the trigger after Hamilton’s deal did kinda delay more progressive off-seasons. Eppler inherited a very empty cupboard. Arte didn’t give him a blank check right away. The Upton trade didn’t take place until late in the last season of Hamilton. Eppler had to temporarily work with table scraps and still managed to extend Trout (like you predicted) and somehow lured Ohtani to Anaheim. That couldn’t have been easy. In 2020 we could’ve been looking at NYY Ohtani and Trout entering his walk year. Even dealing with that he’s managed to make the farm (ranked last at one point) very respectable again. 

Amen.

[Claude]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

and that's why I give him a pass for most of it and why I'd like to see him get extended for the most part.  Yet I can see why Arte might want to wait and see if some guys do well this year that the team is resting their hopes on to make them better.  If Teheran and Bundy fail miserably this year then are you confident that Billy will make the right choices in the future?  

Pitching is a crapshoot. There’s probably only a handful of sure fire starters in MLB. They cost Millions on the open market. I think that they’re going to put their hopes on Ohtani coming back healthy, filthy and dominant. If that happens then they can concentrate on getting a #2.

[Rally Gorilla]

Just now, RBM said:

You’ve completely missed the point. Oh well...

 

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

[Docwaukee]

 

3 minutes ago, RendZone said:

Pitching is a crapshoot. There’s probably only a handful of sure fire starters in MLB. They cost Millions on the open market. I think that they’re going to put their hopes on Ohtani coming back healthy, filthy and dominant. If that happens then they can concentrate on getting a #2.

then Billy is taking the risk to have Teheran, Bundy and the kids fill out the rest.  It's a risk I tend to agree with but one that could make 2020 a tough year if things don't go as planned.  I'm not happy about what Arte did but that doesn't negate my concern with Billy's ability to fill out a major league roster with capable players.  I think he's been put in a tough spot with not a huge margin for error.  A lot of which has been created by Arte.  

Should be a fun year.  

[Rally Gorilla]

7 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

 

then Billy is taking the risk to have Teheran, Bundy and the kids fill out the rest.  It's a risk I tend to agree with but one that could make 2020 a tough year if things don't go as planned.  I'm not happy about what Arte did but that doesn't negate my concern with Billy's ability to fill out a major league roster with capable players.  I think he's been put in a tough spot with not a huge margin for error.  A lot of which has been created by Arte.  

Should be a fun year.  

I think the bigger risk would have been to sign a top tier SP at the huge overpays they were getting.     I totally understand the Teheran and Bundy deals....not flashy or sure fire by any means, but also not devastating to the team's future if they don't work out.   They both have a track record of reliability....but a wise man once said "pitching is a crapshoot."    

[Docwaukee]

Just now, Rally Gorilla said:

I think the bigger risk would have been to sign a top tier SP at the huge overpays they were getting.     I totally understand the Teheran and Bundy signings....not flashy or sure fire by any means, but also not devastating to the team's future if they don't work out.   They both have a track record of reliability....but a wise man once said "pitching is a crapshoot."    

agree on all fronts except the wise man thing.  

but at some point, those not flashy signings have to work don't they?  that's still money and space on the roster occupied by guys who are supposed to perform.    

At what point do we hold Billy accountable for that?  

[Rally Gorilla]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

agree on all fronts except the wise man thing.  

but at some point, those not flashy signings have to work don't they?  that's still money and space on the roster occupied by guys who are supposed to perform.    

At what point do we hold Billy accountable for that?  

Well, as you know,  no deal is without risk....especially when talking about pitchers.   But, I like the deals for their potential gains w/o taking on potentially crippling risks.     

At what point do you give Eppler credit for the exceptional job he has done?

[mulwin444]

I still find it amusing that people here still think that the only reason the Pederson/Stripling trade didn't happen was because Arte got "impatient"...like he was sitting in his office, twirling around in his chair, drumming his fingers on his desk, checking his watch repeatedly and calling Eppler every five minutes; "Well?...Well?!!"

Eppler: "Like I told you the 30 other times not yet?"

Arte: "No, fuck that, I want it now! Now! NNNOOOOWWWWWW!!!!"

Hilarious...it just sucks this stupid narrative is going to be rehashed until something equally inane replaces it.

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, Rally Gorilla said:

Well, as you know,  no deal is without risk....especially when talking about pitchers.   But, I like the deals for their potential gains w/o taking on potentially crippling risks.     

At what point do you give Eppler credit for the exceptional job he has done?

right now I give him credit for doing a very good job.  I'll call it exceptional when it starts translating into major league wins.  

but Arte gets credit for doing a good yet not exceptional job as well.  

sometimes the combo of everyone being good combines into exceptional.  sometimes it doesn't.  

[Rally Gorilla]

10 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

right now I give him credit for doing a very good job.  I'll call it exceptional when it starts translating into major league wins.  

but Arte gets credit for doing a good yet not exceptional job as well.  

sometimes the combo of everyone being good combines into exceptional.  sometimes it doesn't.  

We differ a bit on Arte doing a good job....unless you mean boosting his net worth.       He's very good at that.   

 

 

[kevinb]

Definitely need to win for Eppler to get a new deal. There’s nothing wrong with wanting results in order to give out more security. Eppler has done a “good” job on rebuilding the farm whether that farm delivers on its promise remains to be seen. What we haven’t seen yet is him put together a roster that can secure a playoff spot. This year I believe Eppler has done that and will secure another deal with the Angels. Nothing wrong with Arte saying what he said though. Eppler is not going anywhere though. 

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, Rally Gorilla said:

Google is your friend.  

I think his point is that nobody has any of the details other than Rengifo.   The actual pieces on the Angels side were never made public, they couldn't even agree on the number of prospects.