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UndertheHalo

It’s not about “impatience” if the original deal wasn’t on the table anymore.

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22 minutes ago, tennischmp said:

I for a second don’t believe the Dodgers would make a trade that was no longer beneficial to them financially and roster wise just out the goodness of their hearts.

Well yeah now that Arte pulled out, they have no reason to make it.

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9 minutes ago, Lou said:

How do we know Eppler didn't agree with Arte? 

This is a better point than many will give credit for..   But I will say this much, I believe if he did, the statement yesterday wouldn't have been as vague.   At the end of the day I think Eppler is exempt from any criticism in this case.

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Just now, Lou said:

Yeah, i just don't get the incessant need to attach blame. The deal didn't happen. I don't care who is to blame. I just know it would have been a good trade for us.

(Of course, I say this without even actually knowing what the deal was)

But how can we bitch if we don't attach blame?

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4 minutes ago, Lou said:

Yeah, i just don't get the incessant need to attach blame. The deal didn't happen. I don't care who is to blame. I just know it would have been a good trade for us.

(Of course, I say this without even actually knowing what the deal was)

Another good comment, and I get it, I don't really like the blame games much either.  But, I genuinely believe Arte looks bad here.   Just a bad look overall that feeds into the perception that he is a meddlesome owner -- something we had not seen as much of in recent years.

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I believe the debacle of 2019 sent him over the edge.

Just like it did for many of us...

Edited by True Grich

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My guess and this is pure speculation on my part (of course) is that Arte is fed up with losing. He might be thinking - I've let my baseball people do it all and all it got me was the worst season in recent memory. I let them replace Scioscia. I let them bring in a whole new pitching philosophy and I let them throw my money at Cahill, Allen and Harvey. I ended up with a crappy manager, crappy pitching coach, horrible pitching and on top of everything else - we lost Tyler.  He's had enough. He went out and got Joe Maddon. He went out and got Rendon.  I believe if he really wanted Cole, he would have found a way to sign him. He wanted Rendon more. I don't doubt for a single moment that Arte wants to win. He's obsessed with it. He's not content to continue just letting others spend his money. He's going to micromanage this process for better or worse. We know he's an emotional guy. We know he holds grudges. We know he's big on loyalty and a handshake deal should count.  He doesn't like to get pissed on and he's not going to take crap from anyone. I also believe he hates the Dodgers. He wants a bigger share of the LA market. I'm guessing (again) that the idea of helping the Dodgers out so that they could acquire Mookie Betts didn't sit well with him and the more he thought about it, the more he hated the idea. He's a competitive guy. He wants to win and he feels he needs to control more of the team's destiny at this point because the last several years hasn't given him what he wants.

That's my 22 cents worth.

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51 minutes ago, True Grich said:

My guess and this is pure speculation on my part (of course) is that Arte is fed up with losing. He might be thinking - I've let my baseball people do it all and all it got me was the worst season in recent memory. I let them replace Scioscia. I let them bring in a whole new pitching philosophy and I let them throw my money at Cahill, Allen and Harvey. I ended up with a crappy manager, crappy pitching coach, horrible pitching and on top of everything else - we lost Tyler.  He's had enough. He went out and got Joe Maddon. He went out and got Rendon.  I believe if he really wanted Cole, he would have found a way to sign him. He wanted Rendon more. I don't doubt for a single moment that Arte wants to win. He's obsessed with it. He's not content to continue just letting others spend his money. He's going to micromanage this process for better or worse. We know he's an emotional guy. We know he holds grudges. We know he's big on loyalty and a handshake deal should count.  He doesn't like to get pissed on and he's not going to take crap from anyone. I also believe he hates the Dodgers. He wants a bigger share of the LA market. I'm guessing (again) that the idea of helping the Dodgers out so that they could acquire Mookie Betts didn't sit well with him and the more he thought about it, the more he hated the idea. He's a competitive guy. He wants to win and he feels he needs to control more of the team's destiny at this point because the last several years hasn't given him what he wants.

That's my 22 cents worth.

Nice wall, Trump.

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4 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

You know.... A simple yeah, I let my desire to win get the best of me maybe would go a long ways towards at least making me believe he's given some thought to his actions.  It's his team, he's put up a lot of money, I know he can do whatever he wants but as a former MLB commissioner once said, "baseball is a public trust".

You lose the faith of the fans, you lose everything.

This was a loss.

 

Have you lost faith in Moreno? At the end of the day he still bought the Angels two starting pitchers and a top 3 third baseman in the league this offseason. 

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1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

Have you lost faith in Moreno? At the end of the day he still bought the Angels two starting pitchers and a top 3 third baseman in the league this offseason. 

Do you ever actually read what you are responding to?   

You asked what he could do to alter how people feel about this situation..  I'm saying a simple "yeah, I may have stepped in it" would go a long ways.   It's possible for people to see both that he was willing to spend to improve the team then undermined his GM because well, Veruca Salt.

Spending money has never been an issue for Arte, avoiding stupid has.   This off-season he seems to have lived up to both his reputation as a spender and a meddler.

Pretty simple premise.

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11 minutes ago, calscuf said:

Are you guys still defending your cheating wives?  
 

She did it and you didn’t deserve it, no matter how lazy or fat or emotionally distant you are.

"Sure she cheats on me but she cooks a tasty dinner, the house is well kept, and my laundry is always clean, and nicely folded -- Fansb

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3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

We don't.

I've read this whole thread and find it very interesting. I just want to add that if/when Arte decided to pull out of the deal he probably went through Eppler. I assumed he didn't call them himself. Therefore, if Eppler extremely wanted the deal, (and why wouldn't he based on what we know about who we're gaining and losing) he would have told that to Moreno. Now, we don't know if Moreno would have listened to him, hopefully he would, but you have to wonder why Moreno would get so angry regarding a rather paltry deal in comparison to all the others that occur in MLB. If I told my GM that I wanted out of a deal and my GM asked me why and I told him it was taking too long, you'd figure the GM would assure him that it should be over soon. That should be enough for most owners especially since this was such a minor trade.If Moreno called the Dodgers himself, then that's completely running over his GM. I just can't see that, but even the other scenario is a bit maddening. Both scenarios are crazy. You really have to wonder if something else occurred because Arte's actions don't make sense.

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11 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Do you ever actually read what you are responding to?   

You asked what he could do to alter how people feel about this situation..  I'm saying a simple "yeah, I may have stepped in it" would go a long ways.   It's possible for people to see both that he was willing to spend to improve the team then undermined his GM because well, Veruca Salt.

Spending money has never been an issue for Arte, avoiding stupid has.   This off-season he seems to have lived up to both his reputation as a spender and a meddler.

Pretty simple premise.

Yes. I was responding to you saying “You lose the faith of the fans you lose everything” I was just curious your answer. 

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3 minutes ago, Torridd said:

I've read this whole thread and find it very interesting. I just want to add that if/when Arte decided to pull out of the deal he probably went through Eppler. I assumed he didn't call them himself. Therefore, if Eppler extremely wanted the deal, (and why wouldn't he based on what we know about who we're gaining and losing) he would have told that to Moreno. Now, we don't know if Moreno would have listened to him, hopefully he would, but you have to wonder why Moreno would get so angry regarding a rather paltry deal in comparison to all the others that occur in MLB. If I told my GM that I wanted out of a deal and my GM asked me why and I told him it was taking too long, you'd figure the GM would assure him that it should be over soon. That should be enough for most owners especially since this was such a minor trade.If Moreno called the Dodgers himself, then that's completely running over his GM. I just can't see that, but even the other scenario is a bit maddening. Both scenarios are crazy. You really have to wonder if something else occurred because Arte's actions don't make sense.

Per Fletcher and the other reporters. Nothing else occurred. 

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36 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

"Sure she cheats on me but she cooks a tasty dinner, the house is well kept, and my laundry is always clean, and nicely folded -- Fansb

I wonder how many young men these days would make that trade off?  The idea of clean laundry, a good meal and a clean house (that they didn’t do themselves) must sound so foreign.

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8 minutes ago, Torridd said:

I've read this whole thread and find it very interesting. I just want to add that if/when Arte decided to pull out of the deal he probably went through Eppler. I assumed he didn't call them himself. Therefore, if Eppler extremely wanted the deal, (and why wouldn't he based on what we know about who we're gaining and losing) he would have told that to Moreno. Now, we don't know if Moreno would have listened to him, hopefully he would, but you have to wonder why Moreno would get so angry regarding a rather paltry deal in comparison to all the others that occur in MLB. If I told my GM that I wanted out of a deal and my GM asked me why and I told him it was taking too long, you'd figure the GM would assure him that it should be over soon. That should be enough for most owners especially since this was such a minor trade.If Moreno called the Dodgers himself, then that's completely running over his GM. I just can't see that, but even the other scenario is a bit maddening. Both scenarios are crazy. You really have to wonder if something else occurred because Arte's actions don't make sense.

We don't know any of this because it's all conjecture. But I understand you trying to mentally come to terms with it because I went through the same process.

And still, Arte's role in this completely baffles me. 

I think Arte is a good owner. He cares, he's engaged, willing to spend for the right pieces and as a self-made man he's more relatable than some owners/ownership groups.

But these same traits make him an owner in the mold of Jerry Jones and absolutely nothing like Mark Walter. I think 80% of the people on this board don't even know who Mark Walter is - and that is my point. 

So, as an Angels fan, I have resigned myself to take the bad along with the good with Arte.

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