Who do you most blame for *the trade* falling apart?

[yk9001]

Why is there no "Arte alone" choice?

[krAbs]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with this.  There's been lots of anecdotes, over the years, that have suggested Arte is rather impatient and tries to force things.  If it is true that he blew up this trade, then that is truly a shame, because it probably cost us 3-4 wins, which will need in a very competitive wild card race.

That said, maybe something else is being re-worked.  We'll see..

Right - and if that's the case, I'll be very quick to give him credit for being prudent here. But based on what we know so far, its not a great look.

 

Fangraphs has officially changed our projections back to where we were at the beginning of this. We went from being projected to be the 4th strongest team in the MLB (between the Yankees and the Twins) back to being the 10th strongest team (between the A's and the Indians). According to their projections, you should expect the Red Sox and the Rays to make the wild card, with the A's pushing to get in, and the Angels behind them. Frustrating...

[yk9001]

3 minutes ago, krAbs said:

Right - and if that's the case, I'll be very quick to give him credit for being prudent here. But based on what we know so far, its not a great look.

 

Fangraphs has officially changed our projections back to where we were at the beginning of this. We went from being projected to be the 4th strongest team in the MLB (between the Yankees and the Twins) back to being the 10th strongest team (between the A's and the Indians). According to their projections, you should expect the Red Sox and the Rays to make the wild card, with the A's pushing to get in, and the Angels behind them. Frustrating...

Thanks, Arte.

[Warfarin]

3 minutes ago, krAbs said:

Right - and if that's the case, I'll be very quick to give him credit for being prudent here. But based on what we know so far, its not a great look.

 

Fangraphs has officially changed our projections back to where we were at the beginning of this. We went from being projected to be the 4th strongest team in the MLB (between the Yankees and the Twins) back to being the 10th strongest team (between the A's and the Indians). According to their projections, you should expect the Red Sox and the Rays to make the wild card, with the A's pushing to get in, and the Angels behind them. Frustrating...

Yeah, and that's just so incredibly disappointing.  Pederson and Striplnig added ~3-4 wins to our total.  Losing that is huge, and if it's really because Arte was trying to strong-arm the negotiations, that's truly awful.

[kevinb]

6 minutes ago, krAbs said:

Right - and if that's the case, I'll be very quick to give him credit for being prudent here. But based on what we know so far, its not a great look.

 

Fangraphs has officially changed our projections back to where we were at the beginning of this. We went from being projected to be the 4th strongest team in the MLB (between the Yankees and the Twins) back to being the 10th strongest team (between the A's and the Indians). According to their projections, you should expect the Red Sox and the Rays to make the wild card, with the A's pushing to get in, and the Angels behind them. Frustrating...

How are the Red Sox going to make the wild card with their best player traded?

[UndertheHalo]

You guys put way too much weight into the nerd algorithms projections.  Who gives a shit what then fangraphs baseball computer spits out.  
 

the Red Sox aren’t even trying to win this season.  They play in a division with the Rays and Yankees (also...Baltimore to be fair - anyway) I don’t care what fangraphs says.  I like our team better then theirs. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

Goddamnit Kevinb

Edited February 10, 2020 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

Sorry, I don’t accept that Joc Pederson and Ross Stripling would have been responsible for 6 or 7 additional wins. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

We’re all aware that Stripling hasn’t pitched more then 110 innings in his career, correct ? Sounds like unquestionably a guy the Angels had to have. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by UndertheHalo

[Warfarin]

Just now, UndertheHalo said:

Sorry, I don’t accept that Joc Pederson and Ross Stripling would be responsible for 6 or 7 more wins. 

Don't see anything claiming that.  3-4 wins is what I saw projected.  Pederson displaces Goodwin and adds ~2 more wins.  Stripling displaces some of our SP depth and probably adds 1-2 more wins.  I don't see that as an unreasonable projection, considering Pederson is one of the best hitters against RHP and Stripling projects as a solid #3-type SP.

[ettin]

2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Sorry, I don’t accept that Joc Pederson and Ross Stripling would be responsible for 6 or 7 more wins. 

Probably 3 wins at best over our other options (Adell/Canning).

[Claude]

[UndertheHalo]

10 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Don't see anything claiming that.  3-4 wins is what I saw projected.  Pederson displaces Goodwin and adds ~2 more wins.  Stripling displaces some of our SP depth and probably adds 1-2 more wins.  I don't see that as an unreasonable projection, considering Pederson is one of the best hitters against RHP and Stripling projects as a solid #3-type SP.

He’s claiming we went from being a 91 win team to a 85 win team and went from being maybe the 4th best team to the 10 or whatever.  

[UndertheHalo]

8 minutes ago, RendZone said:

Stfu Claude.  Rengifo is one of our more valuable trade chips. 

[UndertheHalo]

I’d rather have Luis Rengifo then Joc Pederson and the Angels don’t need another mid rotation guy that can’t throw more then 120 innings. 

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

The Irish. Boston Celtics

FIFY

[Jay]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’d rather have Luis Rengifo then Joc Pederson and the Angels don’t need another mid rotation guy that can’t throw more then 120 innings. 

So now that the trade is dead I would like to go on the record as saying we didn't really want those guys anyway.

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, Jay said:

So now that the trade is dead I would like to go on the record as saying we didn't really want those guys anyway.

Ya go find all of gushing praise I had for the proposed deal. 

[UndertheHalo]

I would have been fine with the deal.  But I’m not going to cry about it not going through.  And based on the way that the Dodgers apparently conducted themselves I completely don’t give a shit at this point.  I’m happy to keep Rengifo and pursue other deals for better pitchers.  

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

I hate to say it, but I have to agree with this.  There's been lots of anecdotes, over the years, that have suggested Arte is rather impatient and tries to force things.  If it is true that he blew up this trade, then that is truly a shame, because it probably cost us 3-4 wins, which will need in a very competitive wild card race.

That said, maybe something else is being re-worked.  We'll see..

I don't know that it's impatience, as much as not wanting to deal with someone when they aren't on the level.    If anything, Arte seems to be a very principled guy.    Hamilton was traded quickly after the relapses following the 2014 season.   Clay Daniels was ousted when apparently  skimming money from Latin American prospects.   

There may be some impatience though, which explains the Hamilton signing amongst others.   Fortunately, those type of terrible signings seem to now be a thing of the past. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Dtwncbad]

None of this Arte narrative makes any sense unless there is another significant detail we don’t know.

In isolation, we are supposed to believe that Arte killed a deal that would help the team win against the consensus opinion of the front office because he got tired of waiting?

Really?

Isn’t it far more likely that maybe in the process of discussing all the iterations of the deal to get it over the hump, that the Angels were asked to give up more (or different players) and they decided to pass on the revised deal?

I mean if the trade went down and we suddenly heard a new prospect name from the Angels involved, the Arte narrative would be he got so impatient that he recklessly threw in too much.

Arte probably deserves some of the criticism for being reactive in the past, but this speculative narrative that he is the cause of problems at every turn is stupid.

 

 

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, Dtwncbad said:

None of this Arte narrative makes any sense unless there is another significant detail we don’t know.

In isolation, we are supposed to believe that Arte killed a deal that would help the team win against the consensus opinion of the front office because he got tired of waiting?

Really?

Isn’t it far more likely that maybe in the process of discussing all the iterations of the deal to get it over the hump, that the Angels were asked to give up more (or different players) and they decided to pass on the revised deal?

I mean if the trade went down and we suddenly heard a new prospect name from the Angels involved, the Arte narrative would be he got so impatient that he recklessly threw in too much.

Arte probably deserves some of the criticism for being reactive in the past, but this speculative narrative that he is the cause of problems at every turn is stupid.

 

 

Ya it’s wild.  Just ridiculous crying over this.  

[UndertheHalo]

 

[Pancake Bear]

At this point, I blame Arte for being a petulant child and Boston for screwing up the first deal.

Eppler went out and improved 5e team and Arte blew it because he can’t deal with waiting like the rest of us. What a pathetic, way for this all to end. F Arte. 

[Dtwncbad]

13 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

 

So to be clear as day, Eppler does NOT say in any way that Arte’s impatience or frustration had anything to do with the deal not happening.