Would you rather overpay in trade assets or in free agent money/term for a frontline starter?

[DMVol]

5 minutes ago, Lou said:

And then there are guys like Adell, Marsh, Canning, etc. 

Every team misses on first-round picks. 

Sure...but you generally don’t punt 6 months later to help your payroll....

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Sure...but you generally don’t punt 6 months later to help your payroll....

Perhaps we're way ahead of other teams in our thinking.

[Rally Gorilla]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

Which is better than wasting a 15th pick and $13M

I guess so, if Wilson does turn out to be a complete bust.   But it seems to early too know that.   Clearly the Giants see something in him, and the Angels did see enough in him to make him the 15th pick in June.    So, I'm not sure why the team gave up on him so early.   Not only did we waste the pick, but we gave him a $3.4M signing bonus.    IMHO, the bottom line is that we didn't get any talent back.

[Jeff Fletcher]

47 minutes ago, Rally Gorilla said:

I guess so, if Wilson does turn out to be a complete bust.   But it seems to early too know that.   Clearly the Giants see something in him, and the Angels did see enough in him to make him the 15th pick in June.    So, I'm not sure why the team gave up on him so early.   Not only did we waste the pick, but we gave him a $3.4M signing bonus.    IMHO, the bottom line is that we didn't get any talent back.

They got Garrett Williams, the Giants 7th round pick in 2016. He has a career 3.98 ERA in the minors, including 3.60 in 110 innings at AA in 2019.

[Rally Gorilla]

14 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

They got Garrett Williams, the Giants 7th round pick in 2016. He has a career 3.98 ERA in the minors, including 3.60 in 110 innings at AA in 2019.

Thanks @Jeff Fletcher,   I somehow missed the PTBNL part of the trade.    Wasting the 15th pick still hurts, but it's good to know we got a left-hander with some potential in return.  

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, DMVol said:

Sure...but you generally don’t punt 6 months later to help your payroll....

They didn't punt, they used an asset to try to create payroll room for someone they wanted.  The shit went sideways and they didn't get the guy they wanted, it happens.  It's not like the selling of picks has been a common occurance.  Plus they got a pitcher back in the deal.

 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

9 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

They didn't punt, they used an asset to try to create payroll room for someone they wanted.  The shit went sideways and they didn't get the guy they wanted, it happens.  It's not like the selling of picks has been a common occurance.  Plus they got a pitcher back in the deal.

 

Also were able to sign best position player available filling a hole at 3B that hasn't been very good since Glaus

[Rally Gorilla]

5 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Also were able to sign best position player available filling a hole at 3B that hasn't been very good since Glaus

I love the Rendon signing.   I think it's a reasonable risk and I can't wait to see him in our lineup and on the field.

But saying the Will Wilson trade (for a $12.6 salary dump + a lesser prospect) cleared the way to sign Rendon doesn't make sense to me.    That's about 5% of what we paid Rendon.   How in the world does that make or break the Rendon deal?

We only drafted Wilson seven months ago...it sure seems like a too small an amount of time to declare a 21 y.o. high draft pick a bust.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

43 minutes ago, Rally Gorilla said:

I love the Rendon signing.   I think it's a reasonable risk and I can't wait to see him in our lineup and on the field.

But saying the Will Wilson trade (for a $12.6 salary dump + a lesser prospect) cleared the way to sign Rendon doesn't make sense to me.    That's about 5% of what we paid Rendon.   How in the world does that make or break the Rendon deal?

We only drafted Wilson seven months ago...it sure seems like a too small an amount of time to declare a 21 y.o. high draft pick a bust.

$12.6M is more than a third of Rendon's salary this year...

[Inside Pitch]

6 hours ago, Rally Gorilla said:

We only drafted Wilson seven months ago...it sure seems like a too small an amount of time to declare a 21 y.o. high draft pick a bust.

Selective memory... 

At the time they were aiming for more than just Rendon -- it didn't materialize (or maybe it did).  The Angels under Eppler have spent every bit of signing bonus money every year both in the draft and internationally.  They have hoarded talent from every source possible.  To believe they would then turn around and "punt" on a first rounder "willy-nilly" is a real reach.   Freaking Baldoquin is still in the organization ffs...

They were clearly trying to clear payroll.  Whether they were successful in their ultimate plans is anyone's guess and up for debate but the idea that they simply gave up on him lacks any semblance of reasoning and shouldn't be.

 

[Blarg]

20 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Also -- Brandon Marsh who people seem to be so willing to trade was rated the best hitter for average, discipline, arm and defense.  Jo Adell topped two categories....   That's how well rounded a prospect Marsh is.

This season Marsh may just become an untradable asset like Adell. Just too damn good for what the return would be. 

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, Blarg said:

This season Marsh may just become an untradable asset like Adell. Just too damn good for what the return would be. 

You've seen a lot of him so youll get what I mean when I say this... But if Brandon Wood is the poster child for an Angels prospect who looked scared and bound to fail (even while having success in the minors), Marsh is an example of someone who looks like he is headed for success.  The dude plays with such a calm confidence youd think he's a major leaguer on a rehab assignment.  Even when he's going all out it seems like it's something he's done a million times.

[Blarg]

23 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Selective memory... 

At the time they were aiming for more than just Rendon -- it didn't materialize.  The Angels under Eppler have spent every bit of signing bonus money every year both in the draft and internationally.  They have hoarded talent from every source possible.  To believe they would then turn around and "punt" on a first rounder "willy-nilly" is a real reach.   Freaking Baldoquin is still in the organization ffs...

They were clearly trying to clear payroll.  Whether they were successful in their ultimate plans is anyone's guess and up for debate but the idea that they simply gave up on him lacks any semblance of reasoning and shouldn't be.

 

I still can't understand how Baldoquin is still taking up locker space. 

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, Blarg said:

I still can't understand how Baldoquin is still taking up locker space. 

 "Just a few more at bats" ..... Jerry Dipoto

[DMVol]

7 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

They didn't punt, they used an asset to try to create payroll room for someone they wanted.  The shit went sideways and they didn't get the guy they wanted, it happens.  It's not like the selling of picks has been a common occurance.  Plus they got a pitcher back in the deal.

 

Well, that's the party line....Six months in punting on a valuable asset (1st round pick, and a reasonably high pick at that--15th) to clear some salary space seems like a really bad idea to me, common or uncommon....we'll see....

[Blarg]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

You've seen a lot of him so youll get what I mean when I say this... But if Brandon Wood is the poster child for an Angels prospect who looked scared and bound to fail (even while having success in the minors), Marsh is an example of someone who looks like he is headed for success.  The dude plays with such a calm confidence youd think he's a major leaguer on a rehab assignment.  Even when he's going all out it seems like it's something he's done a million times.

What I have also seen is that he not just gets along with the other players on the team but players are drawn to him, like to talk to him and hang with him. At the AFL you can see how players interact with each other and the personalities are all on display. They know they are under a microscope and some act that way, just kind of nervous and high strung. Not Marsh, this guy is comfortable in his own skin and plays like it. I just don't see him having the rookie jitters meltdown like Wood had when he comes up. 

In two years it is going to be a hell of an outfield with Upton either at first or DH, which would make the Angels defense even better. The outfield being basically that, where outs are generated. The team speed and fielding ability level will be the best in all of baseball should these two guys play to projections. 

[Blarg]

8 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

 "Just a few more at bats" ..... Jerry Dipoto

I can't wait fo the day Baldoquin is picked up by DiPoto to clog the Mariners minor leagues. 

[Blarg]

2 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Well, that's the party line....Six months in punting on a valuable asset (1st round pick, and a reasonably high pick at that--15th) to clear some salary space seems like a really bad idea to me, common or uncommon....we'll see....

If Cole had signed with the Angels you would never even remembered the transaction took place. 

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

If Cole had signed with the Angels you would never even remembered the transaction took place. 

Agree to disagree....I thought it was a bad idea at the time and signing Cole wouldn't have changed things.......I have always thought Arte got a bad rap for "penny pinching", stupid spending maybe (Pujols, Hamilton) but he hasn't been a penny pincher....On the Wilson deal, he was...Just my opinion....no right or wrong answer....

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

Well, that's the party line....Six months in punting on a valuable asset (1st round pick, and a reasonably high pick at that--15th) to clear some salary space seems like a really bad idea to me, common or uncommon....we'll see....

Thinking it was a bad idea -- totally get that, don't really disagree.  Thinking they punted? .... that's just stupid in light of everything they have done for the last four years.   There is a massive disconnect between the two things...

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Thinking it was a bad idea -- totally get that, don't really disagree.  Thinking they punted? .... that's just stupid in light of everything they have done for the last four years.   There is a massive disconnect between the two things...

Well, bad choice of words maybe..."jettisoned", "bad idea", pick your descriptive term....bottom line is they parted ways with a 1st round draft pick within months to free up some money....I'm not crazy about that concept....For for the record---although staying under the luxury tax has been frustrating, I give the FO good marks on spending as a general rule....Pujols and Hamilton were bad moves that restricted (and continue to restrict) our spending but you can't complain as a general rule...hell, we spend 30 million on Harvey, Cahill and Allen....I would have had zero problem using Wilson in a trade for Ray or Boyd or whoever...I'm just not crazy about the concept of trading him quickly to use the money elsewhere.....I doubt you see happen again anytime soon....but we'll see....

[Jeff Fletcher]

9 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

$12.6M is more than a third of Rendon's salary this year...

It’s actually more than half. He’s making $25.5M in 2020

[Lou]

It's also more than 2/5 

[Dick B Back]

15 hours ago, Lou said:

And then there are guys like Adell, Marsh, Canning, etc. 

Every team misses on first-round picks. 

Mark Appel says hello.

[Lou]

9 hours ago, Dick B Back said:

Mark Appel says hello.

How nice of him.

@RallyMo is a big fan