Looks like Trout got robbed of another MVP?

[JustATroutFan]

Betts deserves an asterisk right next to his 2018 MVP award.  The other two times in which Trout got robbed of the MVP was in 2012 and 2015, in large part due to some stupid stat like RBI's. 

[Bronson]

2 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

Betts deserves an asterisk right next to his 2018 MVP award.  The other two times in which Trout got robbed of the MVP was in 2012 and 2015, in large part due to some stupid stat like RBI's. 

Trout should have won MVP every year except 2017.

[failos]

7 minutes ago, Bronson said:

Trout should have won MVP every year except 2017.

No he should’ve won it every year period

[Bronson]

21 minutes ago, Φαήλος said:

No he should’ve won it every year period

Meh can’t defend 2017 because he missed like 50 games but every other year he definitely should have.

[Tank]

35 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

Betts deserves an asterisk right next to his 2018 MVP award.  The other two times in which Trout got robbed of the MVP was in 2012 and 2015, in large part due to some stupid stat like RBI's. 

what's the evidence that betts cheated? I haven't seen anything definitive yet.

[Vlad27Trout27]

I think next year will determine whether Betts or Altuve deserved the MVP.

As of now, 2018 for Betts stands out. it was an outlier year for him compare to his career. 

[Pancake Bear]

59 minutes ago, Tank said:

what's the evidence that betts cheated? I haven't seen anything definitive yet.

The Red Sox were outed by the Athletic as using electronic sign stealing in 2018. Denial of using it in the playoffs, but so did sources for the original scoop on. the Astros. 

[Justin]

Even if Betts knew every single pitch that was coming, it's still not as egregious at Trout losing out on the 2012 MVP when he put up three and a half more WAR than Miggy (and the Angels had a better record than the Tigers).

[JustATroutFan]

44 minutes ago, SoPas Angel said:

Even if Betts knew every single pitch that was coming, it's still not as egregious at Trout losing out on the 2012 MVP when he put up three and a half more WAR than Miggy (and the Angels had a better record than the Tigers).

Yeah, that was a horrible pick. A big reason why I hate the stupid stat RBI. Tigers played in a lousy division. Garbage division that year. And Judge was robbed of the MVP. If the MVP stood for Most Valuable, Judge would have won. If it was the best player award, he should have won as well. 

[Stradling]

Are we really bitching about Trout not winning the MVP in a season where another guy hit for the Triple Crown?  Grow up, we don’t always get what we want.  It’s a coin flip and it went to the guy that hit for the Triple Crown a feat that hadn’t been accomplished in 45 years.  He wasn’t wronged, nor were you.  

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Are we really bitching about Trout not winning the MVP in a season where another guy hit for the Triple Crown?  Grow up, we don’t always get what we want.  It’s a coin flip and it went to the guy that hit for the Triple Crown a feat that hadn’t been accomplished in 45 years.  He wasn’t wronged, nor were you.  

It’s rooted in RBI’s and batting average. Those are horrible stats to use to argue for best of anything. It’s an arbitrary group of three stats that we now recognize as inferior stats. But they’re still meaningful because some ignoramuses a hundred years ago attached a nifty title to them? Bull.

Trout: .399 OBP, 167 wRC+

Cabrera: .393 OBP, 166 wRC+

The only coin flip is who was better with the bat.  Cabrera was .004 better at hitting, but Trout was .006 better at getting on base. Trout also led in OPS+, fwiw.

Add in defense and base running and it’s nowhere close. The real joke is that Cano had as good a case for second place as Miggy. They tied in fWAR and Cano leads by over a win on bWAR.

Cabrera stole the MVP because voters were stuck in the 1950’s.

 

[Stradling]

Baseball is rooted in its history, so when a guy wins the Triple Crown for the first time in 45 years I don’t believe it should be diminished by newer more complete stats.  

[Justin]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Baseball is rooted in its history, so when a guy wins the Triple Crown for the first time in 45 years I don’t believe it should be diminished by newer more complete stats.  

Trout was the better player on a better team. That impresses me more than RBI. 

[Stradling]

Just now, SoPas Angel said:

Trout was the better player on a better team. That impresses me more than RBI. 

And home runs and batting average and history.  

[Justin]

Just now, Stradling said:

And home runs and batting average and history.  

Yes 

[JustATroutFan]

Cabrera's Triple Crown season was overrated. It wasn't even close to being his best season with the bat. And his 2012 season wasn't even close to being the best year by a hitter in the 2010's either. Trout's 2018 season with the bat was way better than Cabrera's 2012 season. RBI, lousy and stupid stat. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, SoPas Angel said:

Even if Betts knew every single pitch that was coming, it's still not as egregious at Trout losing out on the 2012 MVP when he put up three and a half more WAR than Miggy (and the Angels had a better record than the Tigers).

If there was any good that came of that, its that that year, he literally changed baseball.

Up to that point, advanced stats were still an us vs. them thing. And a lot of it was hypothetical.

Trout comes along, is the posterchild for total value. And it coincides, like a hollywood script, with Mcab winning the first triple crown in decades.

So to win the argument, the old school crowd has to resort to anecdotal things, like "one guy led his team to the playoffs" (angels best record w trout). 

More rbi! 

Leadoff vs 3 hitter

More home runs!

More games, hitters park.

Better batting average!

Better obp

 

Trout totally got robbed. 

But he changed 100 years of thinking. Changed it so much that even the old men dont argue it anymore...

 

[Justin]

1 minute ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Changed it so much that even the old men dont argue it anymore...

But they do tell you to "grow up" if they don't agree with you

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 minutes ago, SoPas Angel said:

But they do tell you to "grow up" if they don't agree with you

And they fart a lot more openly. Not discrete at all.

 

 

 

Or is that just me since ive gotten older?

[JustATroutFan]

Trout did changed the game of baseball. I mean, Jason Heyward and Alex Gordon each got big contracts and neither guys were known as great hitters. 

[Tank]

11 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

And they fart a lot more openly. Not discrete at all.

 

 

 

Or is that just me since ive gotten older?

I can confirm your theorem.

[Pancake Bear]

If you’re going to make an argument for Miggy, 2013 is your year. Cabrera was legitimately great in 2013. He was a lot better that season than he was in 2012. 

But hey, if we’re going to rely on random and arbitrary stats, Trout won in wRC+/OPS+, SB, and OBP in 2012. 

[Pancake Bear]

Actually, you know what, I'll do you one better: Trout came 1 steal shy of 50 steals in 2012. If he'd gotten it, he would've been only the third person in baseball history to get a season with at least 30 HR and 50 steals. There have been 10 triple crown winners. 

So, if Trout had gotten that extra steal @Stradling, can I assume you'd agree that Trout deserved the MVP in that case?

 

[JustATroutFan]

Betts can keep his MVP from 2018. He overachieved that year. He's a good/very good hitter but he has had only one elite year with the bat. And I don't think he'll repeat his 2018 season. He's more like 2016 or 2019 with the bat.

[Stradling]

11 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Actually, you know what, I'll do you one better: Trout came 1 steal shy of 50 steals in 2012. If he'd gotten it, he would've been only the third person in baseball history to get a season with at least 30 HR and 50 steals. There have been 10 triple crown winners. 

So, if Trout had gotten that extra steal @Stradling, can I assume you'd agree that Trout deserved the MVP in that case?

 

My point isn’t whether Trout deserved it or Miggy deserves it.  It’s about thinking he got screwed.  Miggy won the triple crown so it’s far from an egregious decision.