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John Taylor

Red Sox fire Alex Cora

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1 hour ago, floplag said:

Again he tried to stop it, destroyed the monitors and such from what ive read the staff and players kept putting them back.
Scapegoat him all you want, bottom line the players used it, the players benefited from it on field and monetarily, and they got no punishment whatsoever. 
Thats wrong under any logical argument. 

MLB Network reported this morning that Rob Manfred notified all the teams know back in 2017 that using electronics for stealing signs would not be tolerated and the teams, meaning GM's and Managers, would be held accountable. So this becomes an institutional problem and MLB is taking action against teams breaking the rules.

If Hinch/Luhnow wanted it stopped, it would have stopped. As for Hinch, he was possibly in a tough spot with the players had he stopped it but it's on him. He allowed it to continue. Same thing here with Cora. They are supposed to be the "grown ups" in the room. They were not.

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It really is an act of cowardice and bad faith just ignoring the players, who gained the most. They fattened their stats, won games and championships. Even the pitchers were beneficiaries, with more run support behind them.

I guess betting is considered a worse crime than actual in game cheating. 

Hard to have confidence in a sport where a major scandal is intentionally spun to protect the actual participants.

And I would be furious if I was a Dodger player or fan. Or other playoff opponent. The margins are razor thin, pressure intense and the stakes highest in the post season. 

This is something systemic amongst the players executed by them and for their direct benefit. Management and coaches watch what happens, but don't have in game power.. The players get into the batters box and look for specific pitches. 

A home run derby type scenario in effect. Just without the protective cage around the pitcher and the ball thrown at higher speed. Even a very few extra hits coming from this setup is the difference between winning and losing. 

There are dozens of punitive actions that could be taken beyond the minimal punishment already enacted. If MLB really was serious they would easily find ways that technically don't cross legal lines. 

Even voiding the World Series results would shame the teams forever. If not that, put an asterisk in the record books and the stats of team players.

Poor Roger Maris was demeaned in the record books  because he broke Ruth's record in a slightly longer schedule. That act really did have a negative effect on his reputation. These fake champs deserve a hell of a lot worse.

 

 

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1 hour ago, RBM said:

MLB Network reported this morning that Rob Manfred notified all the teams know back in 2017 that using electronics for stealing signs would not be tolerated and the teams, meaning GM's and Managers, would be held accountable. So this becomes an institutional problem and MLB is taking action against teams breaking the rules.

If Hinch/Luhnow wanted it stopped, it would have stopped. As for Hinch, he was possibly in a tough spot with the players had he stopped it but it's on him. He allowed it to continue. Same thing here with Cora. They are supposed to be the "grown ups" in the room. They were not.

Why you are arguing this point i dont know, literally dont care, the point is that no players were affected in any way, and at least Hinch, lame as it may have been, tried to take some action.
They should have been hammered, im not arguing that, but doing nothing to the players means they might as well have done nothing at all as far as im concerned. 

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29 minutes ago, floplag said:

Why you are arguing this point i dont know, literally dont care, the point is that no players were affected in any way, and at least Hinch, lame as it may have been, tried to take some action.
They should have been hammered, im not arguing that, but doing nothing to the players means they might as well have done nothing at all as far as im concerned. 

It was an attempt to help you understand why this is not, will not, be about the players. You are unable or unwilling to see what’s really going on and why. 

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4 hours ago, totdprods said:

You can bet most managers are gonna cut shit like this out if they find their players doing it, especially if Hinch or Cora aren’t back in baseball next year.

Remember that this is just as much about enforcement as it is punishment. Much easier to have the manager and GM be held accountable - individuals with authority - be accountable than 30-40-50 odd players, bench staff, auxiliary personnel, etc. 

I wonder if Ron Roenicke will be implicated in this also. He was hired as Cora's bench coach before the 2018 season. His name is being mentioned as a possible Red Sox manager but he had to know what Cora was doing.

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4 hours ago, Tank said:

I think Cora should be out of baseball for a minimum of two years. it'd be an easy decision for me to give him a lifetime ban since he was involved two years in a row.

I still don't understand why they didn't vacate the Astros WS title nor why they didn't try to discipline any of the players. I think you could do something like 50 games per player, staggered throughout the season instead of all players involved all at once.

The players are what ultimately draws the fans into the stands.  If a team lost a significant amount of their star players for an extended time, it would hurt that team's bottom line.  Losing a manager and GM hurts but the team is still intact and can earn money.  It's a way to be serious but not too serious.

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Manfred gave the players full immunity in return for finding out what actually took place. For better or worse, that was the trade off.

And I agree... no way was he going to suspend any players or do anything drastic like institute a playoff ban or anything like that. Anything that torpedoed the organization in any way is bad for business.

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8 hours ago, JAHV76 said:

So is Beltran next?

MLB has already said the wouldn't take action against him for anything that occurred while he was a player.  It will be interesting to see if the Mets take action or if they look the other way.  You would think they would can him just to avoid the scrutiny, but the fans in NYC aren't exactly known for caring about past behavior.

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4 hours ago, ADHB said:

Manfred gave the players full immunity in return for finding out what actually took place. For better or worse, that was the trade off.

And I agree... no way was he going to suspend any players or do anything drastic like institute a playoff ban or anything like that. Anything that torpedoed the organization in any way is bad for business.

If Manfred and MLB wants to prevent the players from doing this again they are going to have to work it into the CBA, otherwise the MLBPA will fight it and win.   

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Mike Minor remembers.

After Rangers first baseman Ronald Guzman let a ninth-inning foul ball drop to the ground as Minor was in pursuit of a 200-inning, 200-strikeout season in his final start of the year, then-Red Sox manager Alex Cora questioned the integrity of the play.

"I’m just happy our guys are playing the game the right way,” Cora said after the Rangers’ 7-5 win on Sept. 26.

The Boston Globe’s Pete Abraham would later tweet: “Mike Minor’s 200th strikeout should have a big asterisk. That was bush. Chasing a milestone that way is unprofessional.”

Fast forward to Tuesday -- and one viral ‘Ask me if I care, Pete?’ tweet later -- and Cora is no longer the manager of the Red Sox.

Why?

Because the Red Sox parted ways with Cora on Tuesday, a day after MLB commissioner Rob Manfred implicated him in the sport’s sign-stealing scandal.

In light of the news, Minor fired off the 16th tweet of his Twitter career, his first since the response that went viral in September.

“But but he plays the game the right way ... whatcha got Pete?" Minor wrote.

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4 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

MLB has already said the wouldn't take action against him for anything that occurred while he was a player.  It will be interesting to see if the Mets take action or if they look the other way.  You would think they would can him just to avoid the scrutiny, but the fans in NYC aren't exactly known for caring about past behavior.

I guess some might say being a manager for the Mets is a punishment in itself.

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11 hours ago, RBM said:

It was an attempt to help you understand why this is not, will not, be about the players. You are unable or unwilling to see what’s really going on and why. 

I get it, im choosing to not accept it.
Explain it 1000 times, that wont change.
In my opinion The players are the one thing it should have been about.

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If you suspend players there will be those that still think risk is worth the reward (see steroids) because management has their back. If you fire and suspend from baseball management, then those left will be fighting for their job over that of Bregman's and would be more than willing to throw him under the buss to keep their job. The culture of cheating has to be wiped from those that run the business and not those that show up for work. 

Cora got bounced but you can be certain their were people in the front office that knew what he was doing and probably hired him because they knew what he had done in Houston. Their asses should be out on the street as well. The Red Sox have always had a sort of diplomatic immunity so I don't anticipate the comissioner kicking O'Halloran (who was just promoted last October) to the street since it was Dombrosky that brought Cora in and is no longer with the organization. 

 

 

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I'm sure some of the players were against the cheating. Maybe some of them tried to stop it. The only ones who were actually in a position to stop it have been fired.

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14 hours ago, Duren, Duren said:

It really is an act of cowardice and bad faith just ignoring the players, who gained the most. They fattened their stats, won games and championships. Even the pitchers were beneficiaries, with more run support behind them.

 

 

 

 

 

I get that also Duren, Duren.  Dan Pleasac on MLB yesterday actually used the flip side of this point to drive home how this affects players.  He talked about the career minor league pitcher, pitching for his family who got rocked in his outing from one of these teams and may have been send down because of it.  

Hell, Yu Darvish's performance in the 2017 World Series may have screwed him up mentally.  Who knows?  

We tend to think of the players that benefitted from this scandal, but I'd like to think of the ones who's careers may have been railroaded by it.  It's deeper than Hinch, Cora, and a bunch of douchy GM's.

Edited by PattyD22

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2 hours ago, Yellow Balloon said:

Mike Minor remembers.

After Rangers first baseman Ronald Guzman let a ninth-inning foul ball drop to the ground as Minor was in pursuit of a 200-inning, 200-strikeout season in his final start of the year, then-Red Sox manager Alex Cora questioned the integrity of the play.

"I’m just happy our guys are playing the game the right way,” Cora said after the Rangers’ 7-5 win on Sept. 26.

The Boston Globe’s Pete Abraham would later tweet: “Mike Minor’s 200th strikeout should have a big asterisk. That was bush. Chasing a milestone that way is unprofessional.”

Fast forward to Tuesday -- and one viral ‘Ask me if I care, Pete?’ tweet later -- and Cora is no longer the manager of the Red Sox.

Why?

Because the Red Sox parted ways with Cora on Tuesday, a day after MLB commissioner Rob Manfred implicated him in the sport’s sign-stealing scandal.

In light of the news, Minor fired off the 16th tweet of his Twitter career, his first since the response that went viral in September.

“But but he plays the game the right way ... whatcha got Pete?" Minor wrote.

Yeah, I wrote something earlier today that so many baseball players are redasses about "playing the right way".  They have an awful sense of right/wrong.

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