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Simmons Extension?

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Would you give Simmons an extension this season? Or do you save the money you’d have to use on him to get someone maybe like Bauer in the offseason and roll with someone like Fletcher?

 

I think it all matters if he gets his bat back on track.  Even if his bat becomes half of what it was in 17 and 18 you have to consider an extension just because his defense is too valuable.

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19 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

It's probably not the popular opinion around here, and I do really like Simmons, but I would rather save whatever salary we would be paying him for higher upside pitching.

Your position is a good idea.  However if the Angel's release him they probably would be shut out on the front line pitching and use the money on a beat up back of the rotation pitcher.

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As much as I like Simmons it depends what we do with Rengifo. If he isn't part of a trade for pitching and the team thinks he is the future at short. You unfortunately have to package Simmons for something. I'd hate to see Simmons go, but I just don't think I would want the Angels to spend 15-20 million dollars a year for him. 

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I don't think Simmons is going to make too much more per year than his current salary of $15 million. But this all depends on his 2020 season. 

If he stays healthy and has a good year, I'd be game for offering him an extension. Something like 4/72 with an option. 4/80 wouldn't be out of the question.

Simmons' defense is just... unprecedented. He's never going to be a great offensive player, but his impact on the overall run prevention is something that can't truly be appreciated. Plus, defense doesn't really drop off with age. I mean, his agility will certainly take a hit as he reaches 32-33 years old, but ultimately his instincts aren't going anywhere. He's also not a power hitter so his bat isn't likely to fall off a cliff. 

If Jahmai Jones takes a HUGE step forward this year, that might complicate things but otherwise I think giving Simmons an extension is a priority for the 2021 off-season.

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2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I don't think Simmons is going to make too much more per year than his current salary of $15 million. But this all depends on his 2020 season. 

If he stays healthy and has a good year, I'd be game for offering him an extension. Something like 4/72 with an option. 4/80 wouldn't be out of the question.

Simmons' defense is just... unprecedented. He's never going to be a great offensive player, but his impact on the overall run prevention is something that can't truly be appreciated. Plus, defense doesn't really drop off with age. I mean, his agility will certainly take a hit as he reaches 32-33 years old, but ultimately his instincts aren't going anywhere. He's also not a power hitter so his bat isn't likely to fall off a cliff. 

If Jahmai Jones takes a HUGE step forward this year, that might complicate things but otherwise I think giving Simmons an extension is a priority for the 2021 off-season.

This

Ozzie Smith didn't have to be a good to great hitter to be worth big bucks.   His defense saved lots of runs.   Same with Simmons

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Is the question would I be in favor of extending Simmons? If so, the answer is yes. 

Obviously that requires some parameters. I wouldn't give him more than 20 per, but I might be do that for 3 years. I'd prefer it at 15 or less. If you can get him for 15 or less, I'd go at least 4. Maybe 4 and an option? I'd be looking at maxing out somewhere around 70-80m in total money.

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Is there room to extend him this season under the luxury-tax? How far under the cap are the Angels currently? Is Arte already comfortable with that number?

I'm thinking the payroll might be around 170 million right now so that gives them plenty of room to extend but if it's higher and they still need to acquire pitching, they might need that extra wiggle room especially come trade deadline.

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Posted (edited)

He’s going to be 31 at the end of this season.  He’s had a bit of a struggle staying healthy the last two years, so that’s a bit of a concern.  Tho, to be fair the one injury was sort of a freak thing.  My issue is that he’s just not a great bat.  I don’t think you can pay a guy much more then what’s he making annually now when they are that light of a bat.  It’s not like he’s a speedster either.  You could probably convince me that he’s worth a 3 year extension at let’s say 52 million.  That would give him a small raise and let him stay where he apparently wants to stay.  But beyond that I would be sorry to let him go but I would.  

Edited by UndertheHalo

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3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I don't think Simmons is going to make too much more per year than his current salary of $15 million. But this all depends on his 2020 season. 

If he stays healthy and has a good year, I'd be game for offering him an extension. Something like 4/72 with an option. 4/80 wouldn't be out of the question.

Simmons' defense is just... unprecedented. He's never going to be a great offensive player, but his impact on the overall run prevention is something that can't truly be appreciated. Plus, defense doesn't really drop off with age. I mean, his agility will certainly take a hit as he reaches 32-33 years old, but ultimately his instincts aren't going anywhere. He's also not a power hitter so his bat isn't likely to fall off a cliff. 

I don't think I have ever nit-picked at one of your posts before but alas (you have successfully done it to me however! 😄 )…. Generally, defense is the first thing to drop off with age for most players. That being said Simmons has a chance to not degrade as fast.

3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

If Jahmai Jones takes a HUGE step forward this year, that might complicate things but otherwise I think giving Simmons an extension is a priority for the 2021 off-season.

Jahmai Jones is not a shortstop, he has played zero games in the Minors. If you meant this facetiously, my apologies. 😄

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4 minutes ago, ettin said:

I don't think I have ever nit-picked at one of your posts before but alas (you have successfully done it to me however! 😄 )…. Generally, defense is the first thing to drop off with age for most players. That being said Simmons has a chance to not degrade as fast.

Jahmai Jones is not a shortstop, he has played zero games in the Minors. If you meant this facetiously, my apologies. 😄

Doesn’t that usually happen less for elite defenders? Seems like the issue is you lose speed. You obviously don’t lose instincts. I feel like the best defenders tend to age well. 

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Posted (edited)

I think Angels fans need to pretend that Jam Jones doesn’t exist.  If he ends up playing well and re establishing himself as a prospect then great.  But I expect nothing.  He’s still young.  To me that’s the primary thing he has going for him.  He’s also shown flashes of interesting play and he has tools.  But the overall results are poor year over year.  I’m not holding my breath.  

Edited by UndertheHalo

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I am probably way in the minority here but I am not THAT attached to Simmons to want to take any chance on him aging in a multi year extension.

Don’t get me wrong. . . hellova ballplayer for sure.

But:

1). dollar for dollar I would prefer to have the extra money to have better pitching.
2). I kinda view Simmons as a guy who happens to be on the Angels right now more than I view him as one of the players I have much emotional attachment to.

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I’ve been saying this all offseason but I think it depends on how Fletcher and others perform this year. If the Angels are able to get a really good pitcher by trading Marsh and keeping Rengifo then possibly that could be a sign that they could roll with Fletcher at SS and Rengifo at 2B in 2021. Yes, Simmons’ defense is in a league of its own, but Rendon and Fletcher are very able to still hold it down pretty well. They can always use the Simmons money to go after someone like Stroman. Granted, Pujols comes off in 2022 so maybe Simmons gets the extension and the Pujols money is used for pitching in that year and then same with Upton’s contract come 2023. 

If the Angels can get a good pitcher like Clevinger or someone similar while keeping Adell then they have a chance to be very good from 2020-2024

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8 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I’ve been saying this all offseason but I think it depends on how Fletcher and others perform this year. If the Angels are able to get a really good pitcher by trading Marsh and keeping Rengifo then possibly that could be a sign that they could roll with Fletcher at SS and Rengifo at 2B in 2021. Yes, Simmons’ defense is in a league of its own, but Rendon and Fletcher are very able to still hold it down pretty well. They can always use the Simmons money to go after someone like Stroman. Granted, Pujols comes off in 2022 so maybe Simmons gets the extension and the Pujols money is used for pitching in that year and then same with Upton’s contract come 2023. 

If the Angels can get a good pitcher like Clevinger or someone similar while keeping Adell then they have a chance to be very good from 2020-2024

Good post. And man, I didn’t realize How underwhelming Jones has been so far with the bat.

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He's making a little over $15 million this year, but his AAV is closer to $8 million. An extension where they shift some of that $15 million to a later year would create immediate cost savings, but it would increase his AAV for the luxury tax calculation. And they may be trying to preserve tax room for a pitching acquisition.

I'd offer 4/60 or 4/60 +1/15 as vesting option or maaaybe 5/75. 6/90 would be his remaining contract.

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Yes, extend Simmons.

He will always be an elite defender, and he is a clutch hitter. He is worth keeping.

His trade value is probably nothing special because all the playoff contenders already have great shortstops. Since we likely can't get equal value in return for Simmons in a trade, we shouldn't let him walk away in free agency for nothing.

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5 hours ago, Cosmo_Kramer said:

 

He's making a little over $15 million this year, but his AAV is closer to $8 million. An extension where they shift some of that $15 million to a later year would create immediate cost savings, but it would increase his AAV for the luxury tax calculation. And they may be trying to preserve tax room for a pitching acquisition.

 

I don’t think the Angels feel this way. 
 

Assuming they end up just a little over the luxury tax, and with expiring contracts that will keep them from going over several years in a row, the luxury tax hit is minimal compared to their true cash flow. 
 

They would rather have a $200M payroll that is at $210M per the tax than a $210M payroll that is at $200M, per the tax. 

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I would extend, but not for 4 years or more.  2, maybe an option on 3 at most.
While we do have infield depth, none of them are true SS.  
This club NEEDS a great defense behind its pitchers, that cant be overstated in my opinion.  He is the literal backbone of that along with Trout.   
He is without question still one of the top SS in the game, and isnt exactly shit at the plate.   People comparing to Ozzie are pretty close, but Simmons has a bit more pop.
I dont think any extension includes any kind of significant raise and his money at somewhere 15-20M isnt going to prevent the club from doing other things, at least it shouldnt.

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I'm not sure there's going to be a big market for Simba come free agency next winter. I kind of see him in a similar boat to Didi Gregorius, except 18 months (at the time of free agency) older. Gregorius is obviously not as good defensively but he is a much better hitter when healthy. So they're good analogs for each other.

Gregorius got a $15 million "show-me" contract for 2020. I don't think Simmons will be in as good a position for a similar "prove-it" contract because he will be older. If the Halos make him an offer in the $12 million per range for a guaranteed three years and perhaps a fourth as an option, that may be enough to get it done. So I'd offer Simmons an extension along those lines sooner rather than later but wait at least to see if he's healthy and likely to bounce back in 2020. Maybe spring training will be the time to do so.

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31 minutes ago, floplag said:

2, maybe an option on 3 at most.

If you’re talking about a team option, that’s giving more to the team, not the player. 
 

Sometimes it seems like people view adding an option as some extra benefit for the player, like better than a 2-year deal but not a 3-year deal. It’s not. A player would rather have 2 year deal than a 2-year deal with a team option. (Assuming the buyout is an inconsequential amount, which it always is.)
 

Think about it. 
 

Anyway, sorry for the threadjack.

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