Simmons Extension?

[eligrba]

I would offer him an extension. The potential problems that might result from Simmons declining are minuscule compared to the problems resulting from trying to replace him. His consistency over the years makes lots of people forget about the position and assume that any decent player can carry on. Simmons is also probably the smartest player on the field...that is a huge advantage not easily measured. 

[ettin]

So as I mentioned in the Primer Series: 

Simmons is most likely to get a 4-5 year extension in the $60M-$80M range.

The reasons for this are pretty simple:

1) Eppler highly values up-the-middle defense and Simmons on a games played rate basis is still head and shoulders above the rest of the shortstops in the League. Even if he experiences age-related decline he just comes back down to elite-level from God-level defense.

2) He is a baseball player through and through. His on-field instincts and ability to keep his head in the game is unparalleled (or he is at least a top captain in the game).

3) He is a highly intelligent ball player and seems to have a good attitude which equates to a better clubhouse environment in all probability.

Looking out into the future there are only a couple of shortstops that will be available in the 2021-2022 off-season that MAY include Francisco Lindor, Trevor Story, and Corey Seager. Out of that group Lindor is probably the only guy who can approach Andrelton's defensive level (and he only approaches it, he hasn't gotten that close) and has a great bat to match, making him more valuable overall. Story had a good defensive year in 2019 but overall he is just a good defender not a great one like Simmons and, to a lesser extent, Lindor. Seager has a nice bat obviously (as does Correa) but is not the best defender in the world making him a less likely choice.

Someone (I forget who on this board) suggested the Angels could just let 2020 pass and then make a QO to Andrelton. That is an interesting thought but I think he is likely to not take the QO and hit free agency, so the Angels would probably wind up having a different SS in 2021 to bridge the gap to the free agent market in the 2021-2022 off-season. This seems less likely to me since they are pushing in on this season (or trying at least).

I think Eppler goes back to the defensive well and extends Simmons which I think is the smart move. He can always trade Andrelton and sign Lindor if Francisco makes it to the free agent market. Oh that is the other thing: Some of these top SS's could easily be extended themselves prior to them hitting free agency so nothing is promised and Eppler should take the more sure route, extending Andrelton.

[Ariamus]

For what it's worth, this piece in The Athletes Hub has Simmons signing with the Reds after 2020 for three years at $15 mil per. They also have the Halos signing Bauer for three years and $20 million per.

Now, I love Simba...however, if they both have bounce-back years, I'd certainly rather have the pitcher. But of course, there's always...:

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, Ariamus said:

For what it's worth, this piece in The Athletes Hub has Simmons signing with the Reds after 2020 for three years at $15 mil per. They also have the Halos signing Bauer for three years and $20 million per.

Now, I love Simba...however, if they both have bounce-back years, I'd certainly rather have the pitcher. But of course, there's always...:

Bauer has been very public about only signing one year deals. If he drops that, I don’t think it’ll be for a three year deal. 

[Ariamus]

8 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Bauer has been very public about only signing one year deals. If he drops that, I don’t think it’ll be for a three year deal. 

Yeah, Bauer is a bit of an odd bird. However, if he does drop his one-year thing, by the time he does, it'll probably be too late for him to get even a Corbin-like deal. Bauer will be 30 before the 2021 season starts and he just doesn't have the track record even Corbin does. Three years at $20-25 million per might be the best he'll be able to do in free agency next winter. Maybe an optional fourth year at the same rate...?

[Cosmo_Kramer]

21 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

Bauer has been very public about only signing one year deals. If he drops that, I don’t think it’ll be for a three year deal. 

I'm very curious to see how this goes, actually.

[Pancake Bear]

14 minutes ago, Ariamus said:

Yeah, Bauer is a bit of an odd bird. However, if he does drop his one-year thing, by the time he does, it'll probably be too late for him to get even a Corbin-like deal. Bauer will be 30 before the 2021 season starts and he just doesn't have the track record even Corbin does. Three years at $20-25 million per might be the best he'll be able to do in free agency next winter. Maybe an optional fourth year at the same rate...?

Depends a lot on how he does this season. 2018 was great. 2019 was solid,  but a far cry from 2018. On the other hand, 2018 looks like it could be just an anomaly at this point. If 2020 is like the other years, he’ll get an okay deal. If it’s more in line with 2018, he’ll get paid. 

[tdawg87]

Bauer is Halothunder.

[hangin n wangin]

Bauer is a crazy bitch, but I still like him and I would take him on this team.

[Angel Oracle]

What is the holdup on a Simba extension?

ST starts in 4 days.

If the trades go ahead and Rengifo leaves, there are no real replacements for Simba on the farm until some 4-5 years from now.

Plus Simba is a once in a generation SS like Ozzie Smith was.   And a better hitter than Ozzie, and only 31 in 2021

Edited February 8, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[floplag]

i think its on the agenda, at least it should be, probably wanted to get other things done first.
The fact that they traded Rengofo suggests they will try to keep him i would think unless they are planning to extend LaStella and move Fletcher over which i find unlikely. 

[Angel Oracle]

Fletcher and Simba could be a great MIF combo.  Both high baseball IQ, great defense at 2B and SS.

I can see Fletcher improving his offensive stats even more by staying at 2B.

[Blarg]

I would wait on an extension until the end of the season. The payroll is at a good place to pick up a player at the trade deadline should the Angels see a shot at the playoff picture. By the end of the season they will have decisions to make on guys like LaStella whether to keep or let him go. Of the two I keep Simmons and let LaStella go. I think Andrelton's defense will age well enough to keep middle infield defense top in the league. 

[Angel Oracle]

3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I would wait on an extension until the end of the season. The payroll is at a good place to pick up a player at the trade deadline should the Angels see a shot at the playoff picture. By the end of the season they will have decisions to make on guys like LaStella whether to keep or let him go. Of the two I keep Simmons and let LaStella go. I think Andrelton's defense will age well enough to keep middle infield defense top in the league. 

Mostly agree, but is Simba willing to wait until the end of the season?

Or in better wording, would Simba take that in a negative way?

Edited February 8, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Blarg]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Mostly agree, but is Simba willing to wait until the end of the season?

Or in better wording, would Simba take that in a negative way?

He is under contract and understands the business. Only a whinny bitch would be griping about an extension. 

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

He is under contract and understands the business. Only a whinny bitch would be griping about an extension. 

Let's keep Lackey out of this. 

[ettin]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

What is the holdup on a Simba extension?

ST starts in 4 days.

If the trades go ahead and Rengifo leaves, there are no real replacements for Simba on the farm until some 4-5 years from now.

Plus Simba is a once in a generation SS like Ozzie Smith was.   And a better hitter than Ozzie, and only 31 in 2021

 

2 hours ago, floplag said:

i think its on the agenda, at least it should be, probably wanted to get other things done first.
The fact that they traded Rengofo suggests they will try to keep him i would think unless they are planning to extend LaStella and move Fletcher over which i find unlikely. 

What @floplag said! Could be an Opening Day type announcement as well, not dissimilar to what they did with Trout. Patience I think is the key, the Angels are still trying to close out that big deal which surely takes priority at this moment and they have plenty of time to work with Simba's agent.

[ettin]

1 hour ago, RBM said:

I still don't see a reason why the Angels would extend Simba right now. They have the control. If Simba has a great year they can offer him a QO. It gives the Angels leverage in the process because If it got to that point Simba would likely decline the QO (and the Angels get Comp Round B pick) to test FA in 2021 and avoid the 2022 class of Lindor/Baez/Correa/Seager/Story/Crawford/Rojas.

Simmons is in a tough spot - well, as tough as it can be for a guy making $15 M. He needs to just go out and have a great year, show that 2019 is not his new norm and then make a decision. 

I have to respectfully disagree with this premise. Doing nothing now sends a message that the Angels have little interest in retaining him and are willing to lose him to free agency. Particularly since many teams are starving for good shortstop help this off-season, it will not change next year, creating scarcity that will help Andrelton's market, not hurt it.

Again I will reemphasize that there is no other shortstop in baseball that matches Simmons defensive ability at the position. Only Mondesi comes close and he is not the hitter that Andrelton is. The only other viable choice is Francisco Lindor and there is a strong likelihood that another team like the Dodgers will snag him up at the Trade Deadline or next off-season (maybe the Angels?).

Eppler places very high value on team defense and, in particular, up-the-middle defense. Simba is the best of the best and is likely to remain that way over the next 4 years or so. To let him escape to the open market at the end of 2020 makes little sense unless Eppler knows he can acquire Lindor and I find that likelihood to be extremely low, considering how many teams would break the bank for Francisco.

The best move here is to extend Simmons, secure his services for a few more years and continue to develop Arol Vera and Kyren Paris, keeping an eye out for the next version of Simmons whether internally or externally and acquiring that person if needed. Gambling on another down year for Simba feels foolish because it was injury that derailed his season, nothing else.

[Lou]

What teams are starving for a good shortstop? 

[ettin]

17 minutes ago, Lou said:

What teams are starving for a good shortstop? 

Reds, Orioles, Royals, Twins, Dodgers, White Sox, Mets, Diamondbacks, Braves, Giants. All would be upgraded by Simmons.

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, ettin said:

Reds, Orioles, Royals, Twins, Dodgers, White Sox, Mets, Diamondbacks, Braves, Giants. All would be upgraded by Simmons.

Upgraded doesn't necessarily mean they're starving for one. 

We can upgrade at several positions, but that doesn't mean we're starving to.  

[ettin]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

Upgraded doesn't necessarily mean they're starving for one. 

We can upgrade at several positions, but that doesn't mean we're starving to.  

Now that I have answered you are going to try to parse the meaning of starving to continue driving down the rabbit hole. No thanks Lou, I gave you a list my friend.

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, ettin said:

Now that I have answered you are going to try to parse the meaning of starving to continue driving down the rabbit hole. No thanks Lou, I gave you a list my friend.

You moved the goalposts from "starving" to "uprading". 

In my opinion, there's a big difference between the two. We can upgrade at 2B, but I wouldn't say that we're starving to do so. 

[ettin]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

You moved the goalposts from "starving" to "uprading". 

In my opinion, there's a big difference between the two. We can upgrade at 2B, but I wouldn't say that we're starving to do so. 

Yes but you asked for which teams are starving and I gave it to you and once you saw the list you chose to try to make it a difference between starving and upgrading. Forgive me for substituting the word but I meant exactly that he would have a thriving market Lou.

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, ettin said:

Yes but you asked for which teams are starving and I gave it to you and once you saw the list you chose to try to make it a difference between starving and upgrading. Forgive me for substituting the word but I meant exactly that he would have a thriving market Lou.

So those teams are starving for a shortstop.

Ok.